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Portlights still leaking...

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
Ok All...
Counting on you guys for help on this one. I've been working on rebedding my portlights (as has been previously mentioned) and was "unhappy" upon returning to the boat on Sunday after a big rain. Still having a good deal of leakage. I'm posting a picture to show where it's leaking. It appears to be leaking in from the aluminum frame from inside the frame itself through a threaded hole and into the latch point. Any ideas here? the gaskets seem fine, and the re-bedding went really well. So I'm trying to figure out where the water is getting inside the frame.
Any and all thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris

PS. I plan to continue to re-bed the rest, simply because it's time, but I'm not going to continue if replacement is my only option here. Replacement = $1400, so that's not the prefered option either.
 

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One place that some of us (including me, at one time) might not suspect a leak is the O-ring that seals the turn-button-latch on each side of the bottom. There was an article last year in Practical Boat Owner on rebuilding these ports and they mentioned that part.
We have 5 of these same ports in our '88 model and, while none are presently leaking, one of them has very loose latches. I intend to see if I can "re ring" it before next year.
Have you replaced the main sealing gasket around the perimeter of the port lens?

Best,
Loren in PDX
 

Art Mullinax

Member III
Condensation??

Is the rain water pouring in or could it be condensation accumulating in the lower corner? Are the other ports doing the same thing? The frame being a good heat/cold conductor, it may be condensation building up and gathering in the lower corner of the frame?
Art M.
E29
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
Art, it's definitely rainwater... we dried that latch area about 4-5 minutes before that picture was taken.

Loren, I spent some time with our spotlight checking where the water was coming in (I had that same thought about the O ring and the gasket) and I can say that it is definitely coming in through the un-used threaded hole in the frame that is inside that latch "block" that is mounted to it. I've sent this same question to Lewmar with the photo...

Thanks for the ideas- I just wish this rain would stop!
Chris
 

andy beach

Member I
Chris, we are having exactly the same problem with our 1990 port light. I thought maybe it was coming in thru the hatch dog. I would be interested to see what you find out from Lewmar,particularly how to disassemble the latch dog for rebuilding if that indeed is the problem. This is absolutely been driving me crazy here in the rainy northwest. Regards Andy and Sharon E34
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Well, this sounds like stating the obvious....but if water is indeed coming out of that unused hole in the outside frame extrusion, then water must be getting INTO the frame somewhere. If it were just a "normal" leak it might be coming between the frame and the gasket, or between the gasket and the plastic port, or between the frame and hull, or through the hatch dog mechanism.

It there any breach on the outside of the frame? Could there be a slight opening on the weld on the outside frame? (which is usually bottom center) Could water be getting under the gasket and inside the frame? Maybe there is a hole or breach in the frame underneath the gasket?

I HATE leaks. If I found one during one of our month-long cruises I just had to get out the tool kit and the caulk and stop it before I could enjoy myself again. In our case it took me quite a while to realize that some of the discoloration on the teak frames was indeed from condensation dripping to the lowest part of the port, and not leaks. But we had our share of leaks as well.

Good luck - this stuff can drive you nuts.
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Threads?

When you rebedded the frame - did you coat the threads of the screws through the bedding material before running them through the holes of the frame (with the material on them)? That's what I did with mine, and it sealed them tight (very messy, though...).

//sse
 

mark reed

Member III
might be time for a new port

Chris,
I had a port that leaked in the same place as yours appears to (from the pic you posted at the beginning of this thread). I rebedded it, replaced the perimeter gasket, the O-ring on the latch - all to no avail. I suspected that the cutout in the cabin was too generous, there didn't seem to be enough overlap of the portlight and the hull. I eventually replaced the leaker it with a new portlight. I can't prove it, but I think the old one may have leaked where the outer flange is split on the lower side by a rubber gasket. Anyway, the new port works great and doesn't leak.
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
That's what we're thinking...

Mark, that's what we've been discussing as a next step. What did you replace yours with? I'm thinking of going with the new Lewmar standard size that will fit the same opening. I'm not comfortable putting any of the plastic frame brands on the boat, and I'd prefer not to have any of those giant bronze things either. I'm just not thrilled about the $1400 it's going to cost me.
BTW- As I dug deeper into the Lewmar website (still haven't heard back from them, I think I'll call them in a day or two) they suggested that the black rubber gasket where the frame splits is a possibility as well-- on the old ports that we have, there is one of those gaskets on each side of the port frame, rather than at the bottom on the new ones.
Well, anyone know a good place to get Lewmar portlights (Standard Size 1 Opening) for less than $170.00 each?
Chris
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Cut outs too big?

Mark's point about the cut out for the port possibly being too big is a good one. (Though perhaps unlikely to be the cause in this case if water is indeed leaking out from the inside of the extrusion.)

I had a troublesome leak in one deadlight that I just couldn't fix till I noticed that the cut out was a bit big to give a good surface area aft for the caulk to seat. So I built up the lip of the cut out about 3/8" using Marine Tex to give a better fit. After that the port finally sealed with no problem. So if you are rebedding a port or hatch and the unit slides back and forth much inside the cutout, it might be a worth while trick to build up the lip before sealing with caulk.
 

mark reed

Member III
new Lewmar portlight

Chris,
We went with a new Lewmar portlight (at ~$170). It looks very similar to the old ones, at least from the outside. As you said, the rubber gasket is in a different location on the frame. From the inside, the latches are much nicer and block less light. I held on to the old portlight, in hopes that someday I might be able to figure out how to repair those troublesome black rubber gaskets.

Steve - do you have any pictures showing how you built up the edge of the cutout? Sounds like a valuable skill to have.
 
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cawinter

Member III
split seam

I didn't see this exchange for some strange reason. Chris, Lewmar got back to me on a similar issue, and they told me to replace the rubber gaskets in the the two split joints (not sure what to call them) with a good adhesive/sealant. I haven't done that yet, but instead just put two very narrow strips of tape over the seams to see if that is where the water is coming from. Didn't look to good, and I'll go with the sealant when it gets warmer but this definitely stopped the drip.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I just U/L a two-page Lewmar port repair article to the FTP section. (It was way too large to attach to a message, and I felt that high rez was needed for the small print and the photos)
When Sean gets some spare time perhaps he can install it in this site. The article is from a UK sailing magazine.
Loren
 

cawinter

Member III
FTP Section

Loren, ignorance on my side: 'FTP Section'? where is that, and how can we get to it? I must have missed that earlier...

Thanks.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
My vast (Half Vast?) and un-tested Moderator powers let me access the hidden FTP part of the site.
:)
I am still looking for the icon that will d/l microbrew directly to my house...

Loren
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
If you are thinking of replacing your portlights, you should consider the Bowmar extruded model 3000:

http://www.pompanette.com/pompweb.n...6925abeabbdf5d92852567c2004f644c?OpenDocument

I am pretty certain that is what I have on my boat and the advantage is that the opening lens is framed by aluminum making it very rigid and watertight. Mine do not leak even after 20 years. They seem to be about the same price as the Lewmars. The one caveat I have is whether the lens is replaceable (since mine are now crazed). I plan to take one to Select Plastics this winter to see what can be done.
 

cawinter

Member III
Select Plastics

Geoff, it would be nice if you can post a summary of your Select Plastics experience when they are finished. I was thinking of bringing all my large hatches in to have them re-lensed but it is a lot of money. No tax if return shipment is outside of CT (won't work for you).

I have one of the NICRO hatch vents on the fwd one, and they offered to make the new cut-out and drill the holes for the screws.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Chris, I see you keep your boat in Atlantic Highlands. I used to have a boat on the Navesink River . . . quite an experience to climb over that standing wave under the bascule bridge and hang a louey into the marina when the current is running at four knots or so. My boat became well acquainted with the pilings until I figured out that I should be going against the current.

I have heard only good things about Select and talked to them at a boat show about replacing the main hatch lenses, but ended up buying new hatches since one frame had been stepped on and bent and the cost of the new hatches was in the same ballpark as the cost of new lenses.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Building up the cutout lip

Sorry but no pictures of how I built up the cutout lip with Marine Tex. But the process was about what you would imagine. I roughed up the surface with sandpaper, and cleaned it with acetone. Then I applied Marine Tex along the edge using some cardboard sheet covered with wax paper taped over the outside of the opening to give the flush surface edge. Once I had about what I wanted in place I removed the cardboard and tried fitting the port in place after coating the edge of the aluminum with vaseline, though Pam or silicone spray would probably have been easier. It took a couple of iterations of this process to get the fit perfect, after which I let it dry over night, then cleaned the surface with sandpaper and acetone before caulking the port in place with 3M 101. I probably only added about 3/16" but it was all I needed to get a perfect fit for the caulk.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Guess I'm SOL. Here's the reply from Bowmar/Pompanette:

I found out that the lens can not replaced and the hinges are not the same as what we use now due to an engineering and material change. The ports we sell now the lens can be replaced. If you would like to give me the OD of the port frame I could come up with a part number and hopefully a reasonable price for new ports. Please reply with history.

Best Regards,
Hope Colburn
Customer Service


I'm not sure I will replace mine, but if I do I still think I prefer the Bowmar's over the similarly priced Lewmar's because of the rigid aluminum frame around the lens.

Of course, for about the same amount of money you can get those snazzy SS portlights installed by Tartan, but I'm not sure of the dimensions:

https://www.tartanparts.com/product/product_view.aspx?UID=7499AE51-20C2-4234-BD63-392C55C63903
 
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