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cutter rig

msc1212

Member II
I recently purchased an Ericson35 hull#110 1970. I'm thinking of adding a staysail. What are the issues with this for the ericson? has anyone done this?
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Cutter rigs

This Model, more than any other E-Boats (except the Independence 31 and 36C-which are true cutter rigged boats), has often been set up to sail more or less as a cutter. The boat was always quite fast using a high clewed Genoa (Jib Top/Reacher, etc), and a genoa staysail underneath it. The staysail sheeted along the top of the cabin. The mast should have a tang on the forward face for a staysail halyard-typically halfway between each set of spreaders. Some people have hung an inner forestay there, but this will require some significant work down below-as you must tie the deck plate down to the structure of the boat to take those loads.

The reasoning, IIRC, was that since this boat was not overly close winded to begin with (wide sheeting angles, fat keel, etc.), that using a conventional deck sweeper genoa and sheeting it in tight to point high was not as fast (in terms of VMG upwind) as going with the higher clewed genoa (which by definition cannot sheet as closely and probably maxes out in the mid-high 30's apparent wind angle (whereas the genoa might get you to 29-33 degrees AWA). By keeping the slot open and adding the extra sail area of the staysail the boat seemed to actually net better VMG while sailing slightly deeper angles than the other boats. This set up was more commonly used for distance racing where you make fewer tacks (this is obviously harder and slower to tack than a single genoa). For bouy racing, annd especially now with vastly improved sailcloth, you are still better off with the normal genny.

For cruising, I would do this, and set up the staysail on a furler-using a wire or kevlar luff sewn into the sail. This way, you can leave the thing up if you want, and have the flexibililty of using it is as descibed above with a high clewed genoa, or by itself in heavy air. By using the kevlar luff instead of a fixed inner forestay, you can lower the whole thing once it is furled, coil, and stow it if you want to use a normal genny, or just to open the decks up. You will want a beefy attachment point in deck, as it will need a fair amount of halyard tension.

So, yes,, your boat does well with this kind of set up..technically it is not a true cutter rig, but that is splitting hairs.

Go for it.
S
 

gareth harris

Sustaining Member
I have a staysail on my boat. Not much I can add to what Seth has said, but the original set up had a 48" track on the fore deck, and a stainless steel backing piece, the same dimensions as the track, on the underside. This strip was in two sections, for fore and aft of the bulkhead at the foreward end of the forward berth. There was no reinforcing of the deck itself around the track - the whole fore deck had about six layers of glass.

There were two short pieces of track, and two winches, for the staysail sheets, either side of the compionway hatch on top of the coach roof.

If you are not on an urgent time line, I will be able to measure the height of the tang the next time I get to the boat (the mast is down), but that could be next year.

There was noticeably better performance with the staysail up, plus it looked good...

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
 

Brisdon

Inactive Member
I have my E-35-2 set up as a cutter and I really like this arrangement. I have a full wire stay, with reinforcement below deck. I have a bulk head deviding the chain locker into two sections (a foreward and and aft) and this carries the load to the stem. My jib is on a roller furling, but my staysil is hanked, which I think is perfect for a storm sail. I find that in a heavy blow the staysil alone is better than any combination of jib and main. Over twelve knots of wind, raising the staysil makes very little difference in speed (appropriate reaches of course). Under twelve knots and over 20 knots the thing is really handy, in the range between, the sail just stays in the bag. The division created in the chain locker is also an advantage. My windlass feeds into the deeper aft section, and my second, free handled anchor feeds it's rode into the foreward compartment.
 
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gareth harris

Sustaining Member
I am trying to picture that set up - is your stay attached to a chainplate going through the foredeck and bolted to the bulkhead in the chain locker?
I have been considering ways to reinforce the staysail for the same reason, that is one I had not thought of.

Have you got the measurements for your storm staysail?

Also, have you installed running backstays (something I have heard recommended for that set up)?

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
 

Brisdon

Inactive Member
Yes, there is a fitting on the deck that connects to a threaded rod running beneath deck and to a chainplate of the little bulkhead tabed across the chain locker compartment. Ericson originally placed a padeye at this point on the deck. The storm sail had a wired luff and became it's own stay when it was up. The padeye on the deck had no fortification below deck and I wanted it a little beefier. I haven't installed the running backs yet. I will get around to it when I finish graduate school and have time to really sail somewhere that I need a storm sail.
 
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gareth harris

Sustaining Member
If you get to it before I do, I hope you will keep me up to date on how it works for you - to the best of my knowledge you will be the first. I plan to sail out of Lake Ontario back to Wales after demob.
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
 
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Seth

Sustaining Partner
Cutter rigs/running backs

On almost any boat going offshore, runners are a good idea-especially with double spreader rigs. With cutter rigs, they are even more important. For some reason, the 35's that were set up this way did fine without them-in fact, I can't remember seeing one that had them. 36R's yes, 38's, yes, 37/39's, yes, etc. But not the 35-2 for some reason.

Having said that, if it were me going offshore, I would add them-especially if I rigged the inner forestay. The best way to rig them for this boat I think would be from midwy between the spreaders direct to a block on the outboard track as far aft as you can get it and still get a decent lead to one of the cockpit winches (you only need the windward one-which should be free!). No need to go with a 2:1 purchase, or with a block and tackle (although I 'spose you could-anchor it at the same spot on the rail)-I prefer the 1:1 and to the winch. You do NOT need much tension EVER-just snug enough to see some load-then look at the mast-be CAREFUL to NOT INVERT the rig. Even with the runners on, you should have a straight mast, or if you have a hyd bs adjuster, MAYBE a slight aft bend (at the top of course-the middle will be slightly fwd). An inverted rig means it has reverse bend-the middle is bowed aft-badbadbadbad!

If you see the middle of the mast (where the runners attach) pulled aft at all, you have TOO much tension. Hopefuly the inner forestay will add some aft bend (middle bowed fwd), and THIS is what the runners are intended to limit (as well as reduce pumping in waves).

On bendier rigs, adding runner tension will UNbend the mast (casued by adding BS tension), which can ADD power by making the main fuller. By the same token EASING the runners will allow the mast to bend more, flattening the main and reducing power. Assuming you have some bend in the rig, then it goes like this: More runner=more power; less runner=less power. This (using runners to control/limit bend) works very well on the 32/35/38 series, and to an extent on the 35-2 (if it has a BS adjuster to induce some bend), but to a much lesser extent-this mast is VERY stiff and simply does not bend a whole lot. Not to mention that some care must be taken with the BS adjusters so you don't shove the mast through the deck!!! But you knew that..

Fair winds!!
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Attachment points

I favor the T-Ball inserts in the mast, with the T-Ball fittings on the runners.

They are easy to install at both ends, and you can use either wire, or one of the high performance composite lines (spectra/aramid/etc.) for thhe runners themselves, making them lighter and safer (you don't have a loose wire flapping around on the lee side).

FYI-The newer E-boats all use these for the runner attachment point on the mast (std on the 36 RH), and many 32/35/38 models have the fittings on the mast-even if they don't have runners with the boat.

On these models, they are also located midway between the fist and second spreaders.

In any case, any rigger will know about them..

Good luck!
 
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