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Opening Portlight Removal and Replacement

tdtrimmer

Member II
I have aluminum opening portlights on my 1981 Ericson 38. Several are leaking so I am interested in pulling and resealing them. Has anyone undertaken this process? If so, how did you remove the opening port?
Tom
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
In Process

Hi Tom,
We're in process of re-bedding all of our portlights and hatches when weather permits. We have 3 opening done and one hatch so far...
First, open the port. Then unscrew the machine screws from the interior frame. Then pry (carefully, make sure you don't bend anything- use a wide blade scraper knife or something) the outside frame off the hull. Scrape off the old sealant, clean up with 3M adhesive remover on both the hull and the port frame. Then put a nice thick bead of 4200 around the frame and re-seat it. Just snug down the screws so the sealant squirts around the edges, but not all the way tight. Come back tomorrow and tighten the rest of the way, trim off the excess with a utility knife and you're done! Should take around 90minutes after you get the hang of it.
Chris

This is how I do it, I'm sure others here will have super suggestions as well.

One thing- DON'T use 5200! You'll never get them off again!
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Once suggestion....

I did most of mine exactly as Chris mentioned. But one added suggestion that I found made clean up easier. I taped all around the hatch on the deck, and all around the hatch on the rim with masking tape. After the excess squeezed out I made a smooth joint by cleaning with a finger dipped in soapy water, and then removed the tape right away. Then I let the hatch cure overnight before tightening down the screws for the final time just as Chris said. I found this process a bit easier then trying to cut the cured caulk with a knife and scrap off the excess cured caulk.

All of which takes time, which probably explains why at the factory then tended to use less caulk to be sure it didn't squeeze out in the first place.

Hey Tom, I just noticed that you live in Birmingham, MI. That's where I grew up - even went to Wylie E. Groves High School.
 

tdtrimmer

Member II
Thanks Chris and Steve. I was considering having to pull the portlight out completely but you are suggesting only removal of the outer ring and resealing. Right? That does make the job a lot easier.

Steve -we live a few miles from Groves - kids went to Seaholm.
 

pebweb

New Member
Concurrence from the "Maintenance Dept"

It certainly sounds like the suggested methods are best, especially since they are done in warmer weather and not by reaching through the port without damaging the shrink wrap.
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
Mis-communication!

Hey Tom,
I think we're all out of sequence here... Let me see if I can get us all on the same page. Re-bedding any hatch or portlight will require it's complete removal from the boat.
Remove the phillips head machine screws from the interior frame of the boat.
Slip off the interior frame.
Gently pry loose the portlight from the boat (as discussed before).
You should have just a hole in the boat at this point- (as in "I hope it doesn't suddenly rain!").
Then continue the steps as before- clean everything, tape as per Steve, lay a bead of 4200, re-set, tighten to snug... but not tight, come back on day 2 (or a couple of hours later if it's warm) to tighten and clean-up.

Trying to seal the portlight without removing and re-bedding it completely will result in unsatisfactory results. It will basically keep leaking and look like crap since it has 4200 smeared all over. :esad:

I'm including a link to a PDF from Lewmar on installation. Portlight install starts on Pg 10. http://en.lewmar.com/support/support_hatch.asp


Chris
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Heat, and alcohol also

If you can get some heat on the parts, (Aluminum or Stainless etc, not plastic), they will Pry off a lot better.

Also the best stuff to clean up UNCURED bedding compound is alcohol, it works better than anything else. Get the cheap stuff denatured at the hardware store and use it to do the cleaning. Use a LOT and watch how much easier it gets!!! Although not recomended to wash the lens with it, it won't destroy an acrylic or lexan lens like acetone, MEK, or the like will. It a pinch you can clean the bedding compound off the lens with Alcohol.

On that note, White vinegar is the best for getting uncured epoxy up, works a lot better and better for you than acetone.


Happy Bedding (Has a different meaning here doesn't it? :egrin: )
Guy
:)
 

tdtrimmer

Member II
Chris,
Thanks for the input. The portlights on the 1981 E38 are not Lewmar. I think they are Bomar. I agree with you on the Lewmar portlights, they must be completely removed and rebedded. In fact, I have rebedded several of these on my son's E28. The Bomar portlights, or whatever is on the 38, is a different design with the inner flange, window, and part that protrudes through the hull all one piece. The outer flange slips over the inner piece and the two are bolted together. I'll try and attache a picture.
tom
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Bomar Portlight Re-bedding - Reprise

Gents,

Allow me to revive this fine thread. I need some more information about what to expect when removing and re-bedding ports. The pictures below are of my Bomar openable ports - have 7 of them (almost forgot the one in the aft "port" quarter berth) - and this rainy winter in Seattle proved to be disastrous. All six on the sides of the cabin leak either through the screws or from under the frames. As summer is here (today!) it's time to start fixing them.

I will probably remove them completely to rebed them, even though I'm sure to regret finding out about the sorry state of the wood paneling on the inside. The veneer is already separating below all six of them. How thick is the plywood panel and has anyone replaced the wood with the same stuff or something else? I'll probably not replace the wood at this time, unless there's really bad deterioration. In fact, if there is deterioration, I may cut the bad part out and do away with the problem by plugging in something else and try to make it reasonably attractive. :confused:

I plan to use Boatlife polysulfide caulk to re-bed. Does the opening just fit around the protruding frame and then the screw holes are in the glass around it? Is there a core to deal with or is the side an all-glass layup?

Finally, the protruding frames catch water and the water comes inside when you open them. I'm thinking about drilling a drain hole (or two) to reduce the volume. Good idea?

Thanks,
 

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tdtrimmer

Member II
I just completed the portlight resealing project on my 1981 E38. I'll take you through the process I went through to rebuild and reseal the portlights. I wish I had pictures but I'll use a 1000 words instead.

Portlight removal:
1. Remove the acorn nuts holding the portlight. Remove the bolts holding in the portlight.
2. Remove the outside ring. With a sharp and thin putty knife blade cut through the caulk between the ring and the protruding port. I then tapped the knife between the ring and the fiberglass side of the boat all around the ring until it popped loose.
3. Remove the port light. I was lucky in that there was little caulk between the inside flange of the portlight and the teak so removal did little damage to the teak. Use the sharp knife to cut through the caulk between the side of the portlight and the side of the cabin. In some cases, I used a heat gun to warm the caulk and make it somewhat pliable. I then placed a block of wood on the outside of the portlight and tapped it loose with a hammer. They came out suprisingly easy.

Time per portlight - 1 hour or less

Portlight refurbishing:
1. These portlights are aluminum castings and of relatively poor quality. I checked into having them anodized and was assured that they wouldn't look good. I then cleaned off most ot the caulk and had a powdercoater sandblast tbe powder coat them. The heat from the powdercoat ovens caused the air pockets in the castings to gas off leaving bubbles in the finish. The powdercoater ran them three times and the results were poor at best. I then sanded them to rough up the powdercoat (atlest I had a strong though ugly coating on them), filled the airpocket voids and painted them with an automotive grade paint. They turned out very nice. If I had it to do over again, I would have them sandblasted, fill the voids, prime and the paint them which I think was done originally.
2. I replaced the plastic windows with an acrilyc and sealed them in with a silicone sealent.
3. I purchased new neoprene gasket material from Pompenette (or something like that) on the internet.

Time per portlight - 1 hour to replace plastic, 1 hour to clean up and paint 15 min to install new gasket.

Boat refurbishing:
The side of the cabin is about a quarter inch of fiberglass bonded to half inch plywood with teak veneer. The plywood had rotted out in many spots but the teak veneer was in tact; although I had to bleach and stain it to bring it back to color. To repair the rotted wood (which was mostly at the bottom of the portlight hole) I clamped wood on both sides of the porthole. I clamped plastic between the wood and the teak veneer on the inside. This created somewhat of a damn or retainer. I then poured thickened epoxy into the voids of the rotted area. When the epoxy cured, I removed the clamps and wood.

Time per portlight - about 1 hour

Reinstalling the portlights:
This was a messy job even though I tried everything I could think of to be neat. I tried 3Ms new UV4000 and Sikiflex 291. I much prefered the Sikiflex as it was stickier and easier to clean up with alcohol. Here is what I did:
1. Redrill the bolt holes filled in by the epoxy.
2. Place the portlight in hole and hold in place with two bolts. Note: I tried to screw in all the bolts and then slip on the outside retaining ring. Forget it. The bolt holes were originally drilled at such angles the the only way to get the bolts through the ring is to screw them in one at a time with the ring in place.
3. Sand the newly applied epoxy on the side of the portholes to provide a bonding surface for the caulk.
4. Tape the side of the boat around the perimiter of where the retaining ring will be. This will make clean up easier.
5. From the outside, force caulk between the portlight and the cabin side. This is the critical sealing point so be sure the caulk is free of voids.
6. Place caulk on the outside retaining ring and slide it onto the two bolts you are using to hold in the portlight. From the inside, drive the remaining bolts through the portlight and retaining ring. Here is where the clean up begins. Clean of the bolt tips and screw on the cap nuts.
7. Do not overtighten the nuts but secure enough to squeeze out some of the caulk.
8. Squirt caulk between the retaining ring and the portlight. I actually taped the protruding portion of the portlight before applying the caulk so clean up would be a little easier.
9.Clean up as much of the caulk as possible. This was the biggest challenge for me in the whole project.
10. 24-48 hours later go around and tighten the acorn nuts putting additional pressure on the retaining rim caulk.

Time per portlight - 1 hour

Hope this helps
Tom
sv/ Mistress
1981 E38
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Thanks Tom!

But I'm nauseated. For me, that's six nightmares. But it sounds like you did a very thorough job and kept the original look. I appreciate the narrative. I will print it and we can compare notes after I do the first one. Now to pick which one - I'm tempted to do the forward portside as it leaks ugly and the water ends up in the bow. In fact all the portside ports leak ugly.

My teak veneer is very bad underneath, which is why I am not looking forward to what it will take to restore it.
 

tdtrimmer

Member II
If the veneer is really bad as you suggest, consider the following:
1. Dry out the wet wood and fill in with epoxy as described in earlier post.
2. Sand the entire area of the cabin wall containing the portlight (which isn't all that much in the in forward cabin).
3. Glue on new veneer over the old veneer. Contact cement works great.
4. Lightly stain the new veneer to match the veneer color in other parts of the boat.
I have used this technique is several areas around the boat and you can't tell the new from the old.
Go4it!
Tom
S/V Mistress E38 1981
 

Emerald

Moderator
tdtrimmer said:
If the veneer is really bad as you suggest, consider the following:
1. Dry out the wet wood and fill in with epoxy as described in earlier post.
2. Sand the entire area of the cabin wall containing the portlight (which isn't all that much in the in forward cabin).
3. Glue on new veneer over the old veneer. Contact cement works great.
4. Lightly stain the new veneer to match the veneer color in other parts of the boat.
I have used this technique is several areas around the boat and you can't tell the new from the old.
Go4it!
Tom
S/V Mistress E38 1981


Hi Tom,

Since you have played with veneer repair, wondering if you have ever tried something I've been contemplating. I have some bulges in the veneer where water got behind it (around leaking portlights, of course). The leaks have long been fixed so I now have dry, but bulging wood. It's subtle, but if you look around the cabin long enough you see it. Have you ever tried to inject an epoxy behind something like this and press it back down? I've been afraid it will crack in pieces and short of replacing the veneer, am better to leave it alone.

That brings to the next question. Have you a good source you order veneer from, and are there working thicknesses you would recommend to start with for the gentle curves we get in our cabins?

Thanks

-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

tdtrimmer

Member II
Regarding the bubbling teak veneer, I have successfully flattened it down by injecting glue in the bubble. I did this when the portlights were out and I could use a C clamp to press it flat. I used glue rather than epoxy so that I could sand and refinish the teak more easily. I was concerned that any epoxy that leaked out of the bubble would be difficult to clean off and sand. I injected the glue, clamped down the bubble with plastic between the veneer and the clamping block. I then removed the clamp, cleaned off the glue that squirted out of the bubble and reclamped. In your case, perhaps you can take the screen out of the portlight ans still use a C clamp.

The teak veneer I used was 30 mills. I purchased it at Peoples Lumber at 7 Mile and I75 in Detroit. I suggest checking out eBay for teak veneer. I have purchased veneers there and been pleased with the product.

Tom S/V Mistress
E38 1981
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
David, I too had those verticval bulges in the veneer adjacent to my portlights. The final fix was make two vertical cuts, maybe 1/32" apart using a #11 X-acto blade. The resulting gap allowed the veneer to lay flat without overlap. I used West #105 in a syringe applied beneath the raised veneer. Then I also glued a teak batten over the vertical cut that I had drilled two counter bored holes into. The entire assembly got stapled in place with one leg of the staple in each drilled hole and the other adjacent. I used a pneumatic upholsterers gun but for this application a simple Arrow gun would work. A day later I removed the staples and fitted the holes with teak plugs chiseled and sanded flush. I added a second "dummy" batten to the other side of the boat for visual balance. I'ver never figured out how to add attachments so will send the result back channel to you. Having said that, I'll try again to attach an image. If the attachments works, you'll see the batten to the right of the trawler lanp. Wish me luck. Glyn
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Tom,

What color did you paint your ports?

I just removed the first port this weekend and have been talking to my woodworking buddy about how to deal with the badly damaged teak plywood and veneer.

The critical sealing surface, as you pointed out above, is the edge of the cabin cutout. About 1/4" of FRP. I have 1/4" teak plywood/veneer on the inside of the v-berth ports. I am seriously considering bonding a ring of fiberglass sheet around the inside of the cutout to replace some of the bad wood. This would permit me to make a smooth 1/2" thick sealing surface. That's got to last longer than the original rough cut plus the plywood edge.

Then to cover all that modification we're thinking about getting solid teak (3/16 or 1/4) and cutting a larger ring than the inside flange, rounding the edges like the existing trim, and matching the color. The inside treatment, with solid wood, would keep the plywood beneath the port safer from drips and the eventual leaks. That would pull the port in a little and also I'd have to get longer screws.

I'd like this repair to last until I sell the boat in about 15 years. I suspect that these ports haven't been removed before.

Am I making any sense?

A side effect of getting into this is that the existing wood below the ports is so bad that several headliner retaining staples are not holding anymore. I am planning a headliner replacement anyway, but maybe sooner than later. Topic for another thread.

Thanks,
 

tanksalot

Junior Member
E-27 Portlights

I have leaks in the 2 port-side lights of my E-27. It seems the leak is not between the hull and the frame of the light, but between the glass and the old sealant. I've removed the SS screws on one of the lights (NOT Easy) and have the aluminum off on the interior.

Has anyone ever taken out the screws holding the glass and re-did the seal around the glass?? (It's possible that this is what had been discussed in previous posts in this thread, but it wasn't clear to me). My understanding of what's been discussed is the seal between the assembly and the hull. The lights I'm referring to are the characteristic angled lights on the Ericson, 2 on the port side and 2 on the starboard (for the E-27, anyway).

I'd hate to take it all apart and find myself with no way to put it all together again well.

Thanks for any input you may provide.

"tanksalot"
Stan F.
 
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