• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Heeling & Reefing

John Young

Junior Member
I recently read an article on Sailnet about heeling. I own a 1987 E26, fractional rig w/ 5' draft, fin keel.

This was my first season sailing on this boat and it had been a long time I was last involved with sailing. While some parts of sailing are like riding a bike, there are still many that feel like the first time.

Anyhow, I am looking for the max. recommended heeling angle. The most common wind speed when reefing. The max. that you would consider trying to sail in, when it's an option.

I have experienced sailing on Lake Champlain in 35 + winds where I had to eventually drop sails, because it was way beyond my capabilities. I have had the boat over 20 degrees, but that wasn't very comfortable either. In fact I didn't do it on purpose, and actually became concerned when my rails were in the water.

I know that the more I sail, the more I will be comfortable with the boat. Anyone having input about this I would greatly appreciate it.

John Young
"OUTNUMBERED"
1987 E26
 

Jeff Lennox

Junior Member
Many people reef too late. If your rail is in the water, it may feel kind of macho, but you are slow and uncomfortable.

It seems most Ericsons are happiest with the first reef in the main at about 17 to 18 knots of apparent wind. If you are beating into the wind, that means you are reefing at only about 12 to 15 knots of true wind. The max heal of our 1987 E34 would be about 25 to 30 degrees before it would get both uncomfortable to the crew, and slow.

Regardless of these numbers, you should probably reef early. Better to have too little sail up than to have too much - it easy to shake out the reef.

Don't worry about having a reef in before other boats - that is the Ericson way, and most Ericson models will still be faster. Also, don't forget the various sail trim tools to depower and reduce heel.

Jeff Lennox
former owner 1987 E34 "Wanderer"
 
John Young:

You are into a huge subject with heeling and reefing. Hell, some of us have been sailing for a quarter century and still have trouble with both.

Let's take heeling first. You know, I shall assume, that when a sailboat heels too much it goes sideways about as well as forward. On my own boat, a 1973 E-27, I have put an inclonometer (aka on my boat as a "tilt meter") in the main companionway. It tells me real fast what the angle of heel is.

The upper end is in the 15-20 degree range, sometimes up to 25 degrees. After that you need to do something. You can put crew weight on the rail, reef or change your point of sail. Or all of the above. Much above 20 degrees (sustained) angle of heel and you are going slow when you want to go fast. It is also hard on the gear. Things break.

WHEN to do all the things you need to do to flatten the boat out takes some experience. You can move the main to leeward on the traveler. You can de-power the main by tightening the outhaul. And you can move draft forward
by tightening the cunningham and the main halyard. But the WHEN is dependant upon your own skill level and that of your crew.

First you have to recognize what you need to do and then you need to do it.

Often, the best time to reef is when you first think it just might be an option. No kidding. By doing it early, you are making life easy on yourself. By doing it late you are making life hard. Don't trust your mind; it will trick you.

Trust your sphincter muscle. When it tightens up, you should have reefed 10 minutes earlier. You just have to get to know the situation. It takes time.

Winds that are 35+ are winds that one doesn't want to sail in. That's gale force. The last time I was in conditions that looked like they would get that rough I had a couple of kids I had never sailed with on board. We dropped all the sails and anchored until the squall moved through. It was a call that I am very proud of. But you have to have some miles under your keel--and some correspondingly bad experiences--to be able to make a call like that.

In close conditions, I'd probably not sail in 35 knots. I'd stay home. Offshore, I might sail downwind in 35 knots, but with a storm jib only up. No main.

If you err on the side of caution, you will live to sail many more days and you won't break expensive things. And you'll have more fun.

That all said, you can also de-power the top of your jib by moving the jib lead aft. It allows the top of the jib to twist off in a blow. But that is more of a racing maneuver than a cruising maneuver. It should, however, be in your bag of tricks.

Best of luck,

Morgan Stinemetz
 

Bill Robart

New Member
John,

Most Ericsons are considered to be a bit tender and the owners tend to subscribe to the idea of "reef early and reef often". I owned an E-25 for many years and used to reef the main with the 150% genny at about 13-15 kts, remove the genny for the 90% working jib at 16-18 kts or so, re reef the main at 20 or so, second reef in the main at 25 or so, and then down to the storm jib and single
reefed main at 30 or so, second reef at 35, and then storm jib alone up to about 40 kts. I tried not to be out in anything more than 40.

As to the amount of heel, that depends on your comfort level and how well the boat is maintaining its speed. Once the E-25 heeled over to about 25 degrees it would start to slow down trying to drag the rudder thru the water sideways. It would also got very tiresome getting my arm pulled out of the shoulder socket.

With the right amount of sail the boat would go to windward very fast. Too much sail and it wouldn't point as well and leeway would get excessive and the boat would pound. Your boat has a different rig so the wind speeds and sail combos
will no doubt be different but a little experimentation and you'll find the best combos.

With more experience you'll also get more comfortable when the boat heels a bit too much. Get a cheap handheld wind meter and keep log of wind speeds and sail combos. By the end of a season you'll probably have figured out the best way to handle each wind speed range. It's a lot of work at first but in the end it'll save time and allow making the correct sail choice on the first try.

Just remember that the boat will take more than you want to take.

Bill Robart
 

Howard Keiper

Moderator
All...

I second what Jeff and Morgan say.

I have an E-35, 1972, and admit that I don't know whether it's a mark this or that. I sail very regularly on San Fran bay, where the winds are capricious at best.

I know fron experience that it takes about 12 kn to get Sea Quest moving well, and the trend of the wind speed is always, always increasing to apparant 23 or better, and a safe, very comfortable reef point is at 19kn.

As said, the boat stands up and, reefed or not, nothing outsails an Ericson when she's comfortable.

hk
 

Nick

New Member
hi john

i have a 25 that is a centerboard model. like bill had.

my motto is: if your wonder if you should reef......reef. keeping her upright will keep your crew happy, and you wont tip your cooler.

when i started sailing i really made it a chore, the tiller straining in one hand and the jib and main sheets in the other. thinking i was going like mad.

finally she headded up, dumping the porta potty and scaring the hell outta me and my girlfriend. have settled down greatly since. guess i just wanted to see what this baby will do.

i found a mentor at the marina and bought a couple of good books at amazon. the sail trim will make a world of difference in the heel angle.

happy sails

nick
E 25 gypsy rose
sarasota bay fl
 

Bill Gilchrist

New Member
I remember the two most important rules for sailing published in Royces many years ago(1) NEVER belay a sheet and (2) when in doubt REEF.

They were probably
written for centerboard daysailers but if you remember them, you'll never go wrong.

Bill Gilchrist
E25+ "Our Noel"
San Diego.
 

Wade Pickard

New Member
I have to admit Morgan is a great sailor but his collision avoidance skills leave a lot to be desired.

Wade Pickard
E 38-200 Muse
 
Wade:

You are just bummed because you are on hat order #2. Got them in today.

They are fantastic! Be nice and I'll let you have one of mine until yours comes in.

Morgan
 
John,

I too sail on Lake Champlain on an Ericson 34T. We find that 18 to 20 knots is when we reef to keep things comfortable.

However, we have found that Kaizen "locks in" at about 25 degrees of heel and is really stable at that angle. The rails are just on the verge of touching the sea at 30-35.

Although 30 - 35 degrees is totally over powered and our speed is slightly compromised, it can be quite a thrill with the right crew.

Jeff
s/v Kaizen
1978 E34T
 

Bradley Johnson

New Member
John,

I have an 88 E-26 and am the original owner, I have raced the boat with much success and have found that the boat has round bilges and tends to heel easily to 25 to 30 degrees and then sets in.

I gage the weather helm as a gage to reef as well as angle of heel. If you are sailing with a rudder angle of. less than 10 degrees you will not be slower. Over 10 degrees of
rudder angle let traveler to leeward still to much rudder angle, Reef.

Thanks Brad
 

Ed Donnelly

New Member
Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but one element has not been mentioned. How does the helm person (political correctness) feel abouut the way the boat is sailing? If you or another helm is not comfortable with the way the boat is sailing, reef.

I think Howard Keiper's comments are right on the mark. I have a 1971 E-35 that I sail in San Diego and Southern Cal' but I also had an Islander 30 in San Francisco back when I was married. It is never too early to reef.

If you remember the movie about the Caine Muutiny, there really was such a typhoon and it did capsize three destroyer escorts. In a post typhoon letter to the fleet, Admiral Nimitz advised them to "take all necessary precautions before all the precautions become necessary"

It has been thirty five years since I saw that advice in a Captains Night Order Book, and I still consider it the best nautical advice I have ever received.

Have fun.

Ed Donnelly
Solo E-35 #183
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Or, as the old saying goes...

Good Seamanship is learning to avoid situations that will require good seamanship to get you out of!

<G>
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
E26 Fractional notes

All the advice so far is helpful, but note that the majority of Ericsons out there are masthead rigs. You will have some special advantages with your fractional rig. Mainly you can use a smaller jib, like a 120 or 100, and reduce healing quickly by reefing the main and quickly lowering the center of effort. I raced and cruised a 3/4 fractional rig boat for a decade. The only disadvantage I found was that if you ever lose the main halyard up the mast you're gonna have an interesting time getting it back...
:)
Ericson did several fractionals in the 80's, the 26, 28, 30+(I'm not sure on that one) and the Ron Holland 33. All were good boats, whose looks have stood the test of time and still do not look dated. The 26 has a nice open interior, as well.
Happy sailing.
(and never hesitate to reef early... while it's easy...)
Loren
 

Chuck

New Member
Heeling/Reefing

Hello, this is my first reply to any kind of message board so forgive me if I violate any etiquitte. In regards to the question of reefing.
Reef early!!!!
In regards to the question of heeling.
1. When the wind is not building beyond your comfort level, but your still getting knocked around by the gusts, you need to watch the water for the puffs and do dramatic eases of the main sheet. This is a simple and effective method of constantly playing the mainsheeet like downwind racers play the spinnaker sheet. I've raced many styles of boats and found that all will accomadate a backwind bubble in forward third of their main. The boat will drive very well off the genoa for short periods such as this.
2. Remember that your keel creates lift. The faster it goes through the water the greater the lift. So not only do you go slower and sideways when you are heeled excessively, you also lose pointing ability.
3. Sail by the seat of your pants. Feel the boat. It will tell tyou more than any clinometer,knotmeter or aneometer could ever tell you.
C-ya on the water someday
Chuck
 
Top