bilge pump recommendations??

besides the original manual bilge pump-
any recommendations on one, or more,
small electric pumps? and wire to... where,
'spare' fuse? are there 12v cigarette
lighter adapter types available? (hey,
that socket ought to be used for something!)

brian smith
homer, ak

Through hulls

Brian, my suggestion is to do away with all gate valves, and replace them with ball valves. If your through hull fittings are bronze, and you moor the boat, bronze ball valves that have the provision for a bonding attachment are the way to go. If you have plastic through hulls, inspect them closely for cracks. If they are good, I would use the Marlon ball valves. Also get the tool to hold the through hull from turning as you tighten the nut. Good luck, Hodo

Bilge pump

Brian, I dont know how the through hull response got here, but, as for the bilge bump, it's a good idea to have it wired directly to the battery through a toggle switch tha has a "momentary on", an "off", and a "on" position. It should also be fused according to the manufacturer"s instructions. Before using the 12v socket, see if it is fused.I use mine for a spotlight, battery charger,blender(for margaritas) etc. Hodo

I agree with the above. Somebody posted here years ago that all circuits should have a fuse or CB within 7" of the battery. It is usual to have the bilge pump on its own circuit, direct from the battery, to minimise the things that can cause it to fail. As such, you want to wire it direct to the battery terminals with an appropriate fuse in the wire at the battery end.

As to what kind of pump, it depends where you are pumping it out. What is the vertical rise in the hose before the water leaves the boat?

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

Brian,

I recommend against the "on", "off", momentary "on" switch. These are usually wired so that the float switch gets its power from the "on"" position. I can think of no circumstance when I would want to turn off all power to the pump which is what you will be doing in the "off" position. I suggest that you wire the float switch to the battery through a fuse and run a second power lead in parallel through a switch or circiut breaker. This allows you to run the pump manually and still have it "armed" at all times.

As for the pump itself, even a 3000 GPH centrifugal pump will not keep up with a large leak so chose something manageable. The best type of pump for keeping a dry bilge is a diaphragm pump, but these are really expensive and I have found that a 1500 GPH Rule and a sponge does the job at greatly reduced cost.

When you install the float switch remember that the standard float switch can be defeated by debris in the bilge holding the float down. I spent several hours one night in Tarpon Springs FL manually pumping out a Catalina 27 which was sinking in a neighboring slip because there was a stuffing box leak and the owner had stored something in the bilge which jammed the float.

Ray Rhode
S/Y Journey
E35-III, #189

bilge pump

hi all
instead of a fuse i use a thermal breaker. if it trips after it cools it resets itself. it is wired directly to the battery thru a float switch. theory being if debris gets stuck in the pump the breaker will trip. hopefully the back wash from the water in the hose will flush what ever it is out of the pump. when the breaker resets it will turn the pump on again.if its fused and the fuse blows no more pump.they sell a waterproof cover for the thermal breakers to keep the moisture out.

happy sailing

greg

74 35 II

Greg - I like the sound of the thermal switch, can you pass on a make/model and source for them?

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

thermal breakers

here is a place to purchase the thermal breakers and the waterproof cover. i spray the connections with ignition sealer then put the cover on and then spray the cover so its sealed


http://www.trickcableandswitch.com/mall/circuitb2.asp


happy sailing

greg

74 35 II

Greg's breakers

I wouldn't use these devices on my boat.

First of all I wouldn't use a $3.70 circuit breaker. I dislike fire.

Second, how do you disconnect to clean out the bilge, pump, etc? I do like my fingers.

Third, if I did use an auto reclosing device I would put a fuse or circuit breaker between it and the battery. Something about code. You need an interrupting device, which these breakers are not. You do not want to put continuing shorts on the wire or the battery. You might have a problem finding a fuse or circuit breaker that would work with these reclosing devices because of the time delay while it heats up. I dislike fire.

Tom Metzger
E-34 Xanthus

breakers

tom

nobdoy likes fires on boats. these breakers are used heavely on motor homes of all sizes. i have yet to see one catch fire.i have replaced a couple because they went bad. they were on old coaches and the contacts went bad. they are used on trailer brakes and i have seen them on some marine products they are in the installation kits.

i have used them on my po boats and never had any problem with them. i think that if i were going to work on a piece of equipment that would take off a finger or two i would disconnect it from the power source before i started to work on it.

take care happy boating
greg

I have to agree with Tom here on these breakers. The dont look like they would do very well in a marine environment. Definately would not be to current marine codes . They probably work fine but I would not want to trust my bilge pump to something not rated for marine service. Also it is a very bad idea to wire anything directly to your batteries. Only thing there should be battery cables and they should have circuit protection as close to the terminals as possible. Take a look at www.jackrabbitmarine.com. They sell high quality circuit protection that is rated for marine service. If you need stuff wired close to the battery use a bus bar with circuit protection between it and the battery. Use circuit protection between the devise and the bus bar as well so you don't fry anything else installed off thh bus. Bilge pump is probably rated at 7 amps maybe 10. Probably want a 15 amp breaker/fuse between the bus bar and the pump. You want a breaker that will not reset itself if there is a short. Thats the point of have circuit protection in the first place. Doesnt really matter if you use a fuse or a breaker just that you use one rated for marine service. As always feel free to take my advise for what I am charging to give it. 12 volt bible's a pretty good resource as well. YMMV

thermal breakers

hi guys

i hate fuses. i replace them with breakers every chance i get. this site has marine quality abyc approved breakers both thermal and resetable.i like them and just thought it was another idea to throw into the pot.

http://www.eepn.com/Locator/Products/ArticleID/28811/28811.html

happy boating
greg

74 35II #325

Water Puppy

Brian... I recently installed a Jabsco Watter Puppy flexible impellar bilge pump
on Merlin 74' 35II. This was a direct replacement and I favor the "above water
line" lift type design. The suction is a bronze flat strainer in the bilge low point
under the engine. The pump is activated by a float switch or run manually
with an auto-on-off switch. The pump impellar needs to be switched out to
nitril from the standard neoprene. The standard impellar will absorb petroleum
products and expand to lockup in the pump cavity (not cool!) .
The remote flexible impellar pump is easily maintaned and will handle the odd
"bilge chunk" without failure. The diaphram pumps are also a good option...
but very expensive. Run the pump often with a water load to keep it in good
shape for when you really need it. Salt will build up in a sea water pump that
is not used and can cause freeze up.

good luck...and happy pumping



dan
S/V Merlin
Oceanside, CA

I was looking at the Water Puppy but it apparently can't be run dry (unlike the submersible and diaphram pumps). Whats your experience with that?

Diaphram Pump similar to Ericson factory install...

Here is a link to the replacement I installed for one of the original Jabsco diaphram bildge pumps after it died.
http://www.pyacht.net/cgi-local/Sof...scstore+pmzp1214ffc3bec3+pr+jab372022012.html

"Jabsco 12 Volt 37202 Series Small Bilge Pump
New and updated version of the famous 37202 - the best selling small bilge and shower sump pump in the world. Now fully corrosion resistant and quiet running. 780 lph output and self priming to 2m (6ft). Supplied with pumpgard strainer.
Price:* $ 159.95"

Best,
Loren

The problerm with the diaphram pumps is that they have so little capcity and such a high current draw (not to mention price) as compared with the submersible pumps (e.g. the Rule 1100 will give you five times the capacity at 1/2 the current draw and 1/4 the price of the 37202). If my boat had some kind of "well" that would allow me to suck the bilge dry to below the level of the keel bolts, a diaphram pump would be worth it. Since there is no way (I can think of) to accomplish that, I think I will opt for a secondary pump that can do some serious water pumping in case the need arises.

Agree with the observation on the cost of the diaphram pumps and their high current draw and limited capacity, but don't be mislead by the advertised capacity of the centrifugal pumps. They are measured pumping against zero head and the capacity drops off rapidly with increased head.

Ray Rhode
S/Y Journey
E35-III, #189

Granted, but isn't the testing for diaphram pumps similarly unrealistic?

Diaphram pumps are positive displacement pumps and deliver the same volume with each stroke. When pumping against a larger head the motor may slow down a little which will marginally reduce capacity. When pumping against increased head pressure the centrifugal pump experiences larger leakage between the impeller and the housing. If you increase the head enough the pump will cease to pump.

I have not seen data on the diaphram pumps but West Marine shows the pump capacity at various heads for its centrifugal pumps on the package.

I would like to install diaphragm pumps but cannot get past the price tag.

Ray

Bilge pump recommendations

Ray and others, I know what you mean about the high prices of diaphtagm pumps. I have one as my bilge pump (photo available back channel if you want to see the installation. Email me directly at glynjudson@adelphia.net) and have cut into the new price by buying used at my local marine consignment store, Minny's in Newport Beach CA. If anyone wants to do the same, I'd recommend finding a place near to you. Failing that you can always go to the online version of Good Old Boat Magazine where they have a nationwide listing of used marine consignment stores. Hint: Look for three things when buying used. 1. Check for stripped bolt threads into the plastic body. 2. Check for hairline cracks around the threaded holes for the barbs. 3. Smell the barbs for petro odors as the inside rubber parts might be distorted from exposure to diesel, etc. AT installation, always install an inline strainer like the one ITT makes. The flapper valves in the pump can become disabled from the smallest bit of debris and a strainer will solve that problem, trust me on that one ;-). That said, these are bullet proof pumps that are real work horses albiet a bit slow. They certainly are not the pump of choice in a sinking situation but truthfully what pump is? For that matter, not even the largest of centrifugal ones either. Another advantage of a diaphtagm over a centrifugal in my case is that with a 44" deep bilge and a 24" rise above that, my pump holds a hosefull of water captive, thereby avoiding the dilemma of the pump endlessly cycling on and off due to the water in the hose draining back into the bilge and being pumped out over and over and over...... On a related subject, contact me about the way cool solid state water sensing bilge switch I use. It's the best going and very affordable. Glyn