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E 38-200 Wiring and Plumbing

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I am upgrading the 12v system on my 89' E- 38-200 and want to run another battery cable from the engine to my house bank. This way I have one going directly from the alternator to the house bank. I want the second cable to go from my starting battery switch directly to the starter. I will be using a combiner for charging the starting battery and replacing the 1,2, both switches with on/off versions. Will have a 3rd on off for parralleling the house and starting bank. The trouble I am finding is that the access to the bilge area where the existing cable to the engine is is simply not accessible. I am going to try and use a steel fish tape and the existing cable to get new ones run but I have my doubts about not running into some snags. I had planned on replacing the cabin sole but not until next winter. I had also wanted to replace some hoses from the bilge pump and and engine intake but they too look to be in similar situations. Has anyone tried replacing these cables or hoses without removing the sole?
 

oceandreams89

Member II
Hi Again Ted,

You certainly are keeping busy with your new boat. Unfortunately I have found on "Ocean Dreams" our 1989 E-38 that the cabin sole is pretty much in place for life unless you destroy it. I was looking at doing the same type of wireing last year and decided to drink a few margarita's instead of trying to fish that wire under the sole. It can be done but not without loosing your mind before reaching the end of the project.

I elected to simply tie both group 27's together in parallel to the "1" side of the switch and installed a group 24 to the "2" side for engine starting if required. If the battery switch is in "all" all 3 batteries are charged by the alternator. I typically do everything on the house (#1) side unless the starter battery is needed in a low house condition which I have yet to experience. I keep all 3 charged at the dock and check them all periodically, and when out on the hook charge all 3 in the "all" position of the battery switch. I figured that remembering to manually change the battery switch to my desired position was far easier and less stressful than spending hours trying to get the wires back and fourth from the engine compartment.

I have been able to fish wires under the sole though between the panel and the galley area when I installed our refer. I used a slightly different approach though. I cut (huh....) the power wire to the bilge pump and used it to pull 2 messenger lines under the sole. (terrified that I would loose it forever the whole time) between the batteries and the galley sink area. I then used the messengers to pull the new wires through into position and re-attached the bilge pump power wire. Worked like a charm. I would assume you could use a similar method using existing wires in your situation. Just make sure they are extremely well secured so you don't loose them under there. They also do make wireing "snakes" for feeding wires through difficult area's.

When in doubt just ask yourself....What would MacGyver do???

Good luck
Todd
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Thanks, I am going to try pulling a steel fish tape through from the engine side using the existing battery cable as a fish. Hopefully it comes through okay. I do need to replace the sole but am hoping to avoid doing that until next winter. I guess if worse comes to worse I will end up replacing that section this year...
 

rssailor

Moderator
No combiner

Ted,
Are you running an externally regulated alternator? Also don't use a combiner as you will overcharge the engine battery. Use a Balmar digital duo charge to charge the engine battery from the house. (Balmar.net) This works well and keeps both banks isolated. Good luck with those battery cables under the floor. Check out and see if there are any alternate wire race ways. Ryan :egrin:
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I was thinking of the Digital Duo. Looks to be priced better than the Xantrax Pathmaker too... I was able last night to get the existing cable pulled out and a steel fish tape run in its place. Went a lot smoother than I thought. Will try pulling the new wire (#4) to the alternator along with the starter cable (#1/0)this weekend using the fish. Wish me luck...
 

rssailor

Moderator
Wire size

Ted,
Have you consulted the Ancor wire tables and looked at the 1% voltage drop table? Find the tables in the west catalog or go to Ancor's web site. This will allow you to size the wires you are going to pull in to get the least voltage drop. Good luck getting the new wires in. You will be very happy with a Duo Charge, not to mention that the Duo charge is an easy install. Ryan
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Wire Size

I looked in westmarine catalog at wire sizes and figured #4 shoudl do the trick give the distance about (10 feet) and the amperage. Not sure how big the alternator is as the name plate is to worn to read. It is an older balmar with a external reulator though. My guess is that is it less than 100 amps. I would liek to upgrade to a 100 amp unit down the road and thats why I figured #4 should be adequate.
 

valentor

Member II
Ted;

Remember that those wire lengths in the tables are "Round Trip" so you need to add positive and negative leads together. So if your battery is 10' from your alternator, you need to plug 20' into the table. Also, heat reduces the current a wire can carry - and current heats up wire.

4 GA sounds a little light for 100 amps, if you allow for minimum efficiency reduction, heat, and some engineering margin. I'd consider 2 GA (or possibly even 1 GA) for the nominal increase in cost and weight, you may see much improved charging. I used 1 GA on Rogue for the battery-alternator connections and have had great service with no battery failures in four years.

Good luck;

Steve
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
After further consideration I believe I will be going with 2 guage. The negative cable is 1/0. The positive cable going to the starter is also 1/0. This cable will just be running from the alt. to house bank.

Thanks
 

valentor

Member II
Ted;

One more consideration is to properly fuse (or circuit breaker) those cables. If you have a #2 cable carrying 100 amps, you should fuse it for 125 amps as close as possible to the positive terminal of the battery.

The breakers make it possible to disconnect the battery very quickly int he event of a short anywhere in the system - and they virtually eliminate the risk of battery explosion from a short.

With such a breaker in place, about the only way to short your battery is to put a wrench across the terminals. :confused:

Actually, such fusing is required on boats over 65 feet that require inspection. I did it just for peace of mind, and it certainly serves that purpose.

Steve
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Yeah I'm with you there. Will be using a 125 amp fuse on the alternator output cable, 100 amp breaker on the distribution panel, and 25amp breakers on the ac battery charger inputs.
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
Great timing on topic, Ted!

I've been contemplating a similar change in overall set-up on Sequoia. Thanks for posting here about it. Let us know which alternator you find to be best as that's in the cards as well for my upgrade.
Thanks,
Chris

"Sequoia" 1988 E38-200
Solomons
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Project completed this weekend. Was able to run the second battery cable from the alt output to house bank under the cabin sole. Installed Blue Sea systems parrallel switch panel, 2 group 31 gels, 1 group 27 gel starter battery, Xantrax Echo Charge battery combiner, Xantrax True Charge 20 ac charger, temperature sensor for charger and remote panel for charger. Removed the 2 old 1,2,all switches. The blue sea panel has a 100 amp breaker for the house panel service. I used a 150 amp fuse block for the alt output cable, 30 amp fuse blocks for the ac charger outputs. New 1/0 cables everywhere, #2 on the alt output. New tiedowns for the batteries, Rubber terminal protection on all terminals including starter and alternator. I will try and get some pics soon. Still want to install a link 10 monitor for the house bank. The rig is coming down friday for all new standing rigging. I can smell spring...
 

valentor

Member II
Ted;

Sounds like a very professional installation - well done - congratulations.

First I can very highly recommmend the Link-10. I have used one for four years now and it performs perfectly. The most complicatred aspect of battery systems is that the actual amp-hour capacity of the battery is inversely proportional to rate at which current is demanded. Similarly, when current is replaced, there is an inefficiency. The Link-10 takes this into consideration and gives nearly perfectly accurate readings. It's a great device.

I also have a very small (5-Watt) flexible solar panel fused into the house batteries directly. It serves to trickle charge and keep the batteries topped off. This is only necessary because Rogue lives on a mooring without shore power. I also leave the batteries on board for the Winter, and the solar panel keeps them at full charge for the entire off season.

The only thing you didn't mention is the gauge of wire you used for your charger connection. With 30 amp breakers, you want to be certain that you used at least 10 gauge wire.

Excellent Work!


Steve
 

valentor

Member II
Chris;

On Rogue (1978 IOR-34), I replaced the original Delco alternator with a Balmar 100 Amp, dual output model. It has worked flawlessly for four years. Also I installed a Balmar ARS-4 Regulator. The combination is very good, very reliable, and can take the batteries from 50% to 98% in less than 2 hours.

Regards;

Steve
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Xantrax recommended either 10 or 8 gauge wire depending on the distance from the charger to the batteries. I went with 8 erring on the bigger side. Thoughts are that if down the road I end up going with a larger house bank and get a bigger charger I don't want to redo all that wiring to handle bigger loads. Thanks for the help.
 
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