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Thread: running hot

  1. #1
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    running hot

    I have been dealing with heating issues since I acquired The Optimist 2 5 years ago. If I push the rpm's past 1800 - 1050,the temperature climbs up to 200+ in about 10 minutes. I have replaced the t stat, cleaned and refurbished the HX, Put in a new impeller, checked all hoses for rigidity. It has gotten to the point where I am now going to remove the mixing elbow and have it cleaned or most likely replaced while I have it off. The modification concerning the hot water heater had been completed prior to my buying the boat. The heating issue seems to be getting worse with time in small increments. The water outflow at the exhaust is strong and steady At this point I am wondering if my prop is over pitched. I have a Martek folding prop which I had rebuilt this past winter. The prop is a Eliptek series with a "RH 16D X 14P -3. I was wondering if any other owners of an E -38 have the same prop and if so have you had any issues similar to mine. I am just trying to rule out the prop at this point as a cause at this point. Thanks in advance
    Don Moran, AKA Navman
    1986 E- 38
    S.V. The Optimist II
    Universal 5432
    Hull# 536

  2. #2
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    Do you have a screen on the outside of the thru-hull? If so remove it. If not replace the mixing elbow. Mine was plugged causing overheating. All of us should replace these old mixing elbows. At 30 years old, these elbows are way overdue replacement!
    Bob Morrison
    1987 E-34 Hull #15
    "Terra Nova"

  3. #3
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    Bob,
    Thanks for the reply. I do not have an exterior screen. I did install a raw water filter and it is clear of debris. The only issue now is to find what the replacement number is for the mixing elbow. I have checked previous posts here and they did give some parts numbers and photos but they are either outdated or the link no longer exists. I would prefer not to have to construct my own if possible.I am going to try to get some photos of it and check to see if there is a number on it. I believe it is a Yanmar type but am not absolutely sure.

    Thanks again,
    Don Moran, AKA Navman
    1986 E- 38
    S.V. The Optimist II
    Universal 5432
    Hull# 536

  4. #4
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    I believe that I used a Yanmar type replacement that I sourced out of the Midwest reasonably. Unfortanuatly, I can't assess my records at the moment. Perhaps someone else that has replaced their elbow can assess theirs? Otherwise source replacements online and give the supplier a call. I've found all of them to be extremely helpful.
    Bob Morrison
    1987 E-34 Hull #15
    "Terra Nova"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navman View Post
    Bob,
    Thanks for the reply. I do not have an exterior screen. I did install a raw water filter and it is clear of debris. The only issue now is to find what the replacement number is for the mixing elbow. I have checked previous posts here and they did give some parts numbers and photos but they are either outdated or the link no longer exists. I would prefer not to have to construct my own if possible.I am going to try to get some photos of it and check to see if there is a number on it. I believe it is a Yanmar type but am not absolutely sure.

    Thanks again,

    Don,

    My Mixing elbow was replaced when I got the boat and it has stamped Westerbeke on it...I have a 5432 as well...Not sure of the part number but I'll see if there is one stamped on it somewhere.
    Josephine, E381 hull 505 (1983) Universal 5432

  6. #6
    Contributing Member Joliba's Avatar
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    Exhaust elbow

    Ours was an Onan 155-1058 elbow. We replaced it a few years ago with the same elbow. Some threaded pipes of various appropriate sizes and a new flange to attach to the exhaust manifold will also be needed to complete the replacement.
    Mike Jacker
    1988 E38-200
    Universal 5432

  7. #7
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    Check the small fitting that brings the water into the mixing elbow from the heat exchanger. On my previous boat, CAL 33-2, it had a Yanmar and it started overheating (white smoke/steam out the exhaust). What I finally discovered was that little elbow was almost totally clogged. I was getting water out the exhaust, but after cleaning the elbow the quantity of water increased greatly and the engine stopped overheating.

    I removed that elbow fitting from the mixing elbow and cleaned it out, scraping all the gunk out with a screwdriver and some stiff wire.
    Leslie Newman
    E-380 #15 "Osprey"

  8. #8
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    Here's my seawater pump. This sort of buildup must be common.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Christian Williams; 07-19-2019 at 08:20 AM.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
    Table of Contents for Thelonious Blog here
    Videos: http://www.youtube.com/c/ChristianWilliamsYachting

  9. #9
    Sustaining Partner
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    Thanks Leslie & Christian,
    I will check out the small elbow when I go down next. I saw Christians photo in previous posts so I checked the fittings last weekend while I was changing out the t-stat and they were very clean. Replacement is due so I am just going to go that route. I will save the old one and I have a friend who will bead blast it clean for me. I will save it as a backup if it is any good.

    Thanks, for all the great responses and help!!
    Don Moran, AKA Navman
    1986 E- 38
    S.V. The Optimist II
    Universal 5432
    Hull# 536

  10. #10
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Here's my blog of my RW cooling system rebuild. Surveyor commented after the seat-trial on an excess amount of steam coming from the exhaust even though the temp gauge stayed below 190 degrees. http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...upport-Bracket

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the elbow Leslie is referring to in post #7 (on a Univ M-25).

    When I saw this, I was glad I tackled the rebuild within my first year of owning the boat.
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 07-19-2019 at 03:57 PM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    Here's my blog of my RW cooling system rebuild. Surveyor commented after the seat-trial on an excess amount of steam coming from the exhaust even though the temp gauge stayed below 190 degrees. http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...upport-Bracket

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the elbow Leslie is referring to in post #7 (on a Univ M-25).

    When I saw this, I was glad I tackled the rebuild within my first year of owning the boat.
    That's the little bugger. Surprising such a small hose and fittings bringing water out of the heat exchanger into the mixing elbow.
    Leslie Newman
    E-380 #15 "Osprey"

  12. #12
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    running hot

    Hello all, Well I have finally resolved my overheating issue.As a condition of sale 5 years ago I had the P.O. replace the entire exhaust system from the Mixing Elbow to the transom. I then brought the boat home 400+ miles and could not get the rpm's above 1800. I thought that was OK because I was doing hull speed. Over the last year however, I had found it necessary to reduce the rpm's because it was overheating more rapidly. When going against the current and waves I had no extra power and I found I myself only doing 4 knots. As I previously stated, I had checked all of the hose and replaced some of them, checked for the zinc on the HX and found it to be nearly 100% I had removed the HX the year before and installed a sea water strainer so was not concerned with cleaning it again. I had also changed out the t-stat for a 185, and it was still not able to get up to rpm's. My next step was to take off the Mixing Elbow. While looking at the ME, I noticed a nut on top. I took off the nut and found that it was supposed to be a zinc. I had never heard mention in all of the forums and blogs I had been on and reading of a zinc being on the Westerbeak ME ( see 1st photo). I changed out the zinc and decided the pieces had to be somewhere so I did remove the HX and found the pieces there ( see 2nd photo). I filled up the coolant and took her out for a spin and it was better but still not up to spec's. I returned back to the ball. Back to the ME. While contemplating the removal my attention was drawn to the exhaust hose between the ME & the HX. I did not like that the 2-1/2" hose took a hard bend where it connected to the lift muffler ( see photo 3). Linda and I had been smelling a slight exhaust smell recently and I though maybe the bend allowed the hose to become cracked hence the smell. I figured that while I was down there I might as well replace the hose. I bought a new length and had it cut to match the old hose at 12". When I removed the hose I found that at the bend the wall of the hose had collapsed inward and was effectively reducing the outflow by one third! I had a new hose cut to 12" to match the old one but could not manage to get it on without much force. I then measured for myself and cut the hose down to 10 inches. The hose slipped right on with a nice smooth transition to the lift muffler with no hard bends. I re-filled the manifold, let out as much air as I could and let it burp overnight. When I woke up I re-filled the coolant. I then loaded up the inflatable with as much weight as I could and left the ball towing the dink at the worst possible distance from the boat to induce drag. I then headed against the current to create more drag. I put the rpm's up to 2200 and ran it for 5 hours and LO AND BEHOLD!!! NO OVERHEATING!!! HALLELUJAH, PASS THE GRAVY!!! My guess is that the mechanic cut the hose at 12" and forced it on because he just did not want to climb out of the hole, climb down the ladder, walk over to the shop, cut the hose, walk back to the boat, climb up the ladder, back into the hole and put it on properly. Why do all of that when I can just jamb it on there. That little bend won't hurt anything and this guy is going to be taking the bat far away soon and we will never hear from him again. I think the resolution was a combination of he many little things I did as well as some of the major items. As is frequently the case the problem was a culmination and many different issues. Just goes to show, "One don't never know, do one? Thanks to all of the people and their suggestions over the last 2-3 years while I tried to resolve the issue. I hope this tale comes in handy for someone else in the future. Click image for larger version. 

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    Don Moran, AKA Navman
    1986 E- 38
    S.V. The Optimist II
    Universal 5432
    Hull# 536

  13. #13
    Senior Moderator Loren Beach's Avatar
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    Drink

    Thanks much for the update -- file under "hard won wisdom"...

    While you are contemplating the exhaust - like that longer run to the transom, be aware that an OEM hose from the 80's can, by now, also exhibit another odd behavior when a section of the interior wall forms an "aneurysm" and then has a separation of a part of the liner, and partially blocks the flow of gasses and water.
    Happened to a friend of mine with an '81 Ericson, altho the brand of boat is not the key part of the narrative.

    When I replaced our '88 diesel last year, one of the lengthly list of reasons to tear into the whole drivetrain was that there was - finally - a seepage of water from the surface of the OEM exhaust hose.

    It's funny how my old days of pondering how to get more HP out of a car, that often involved a "free flow" exhaust with less restriction, are just as relevant for a small diesel in a boat.
    Further, our new Betamarine uses a much larger exhaust system, and I suspect that this was their way to get fractionally more HP out of their engines; and it's all good when in a channel powering against a chop.

    Treat yourself to a Cold One!!
    1988 Olson 34 #8
    Sail # 28400
    Betamarine 25 (new 2018)
    Fresh Air
    Portland, OR USA

  14. #14
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    I had almost the exact same situation with my 5432, with the exception of the overheating problem...Once I replaced the exhaust hose and the muffler, I was able to reach max RPM's with much less smoke buildup and a much smoother engine....

    The one thing I did not address, and is on my list, is the exhaust exit thru-hull....I have (what I believe is original) a bronze gate style exit thru-hull.....I think the original factory exhaust hose was 1.5"...I now have 2" from the mixing elbow all the way back to the thru-hull where it reduces down to 1.5" I believe....In the near future I will be replacing that with a 2" in order to get full flow through the exhaust.....I think the reduction in exhaust flow is probably restricting engine power....Maybe not enough to make a difference, but I will be replacing it.
    Josephine, E381 hull 505 (1983) Universal 5432

  15. #15
    Principal Partner bigd14's Avatar
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    Also running hot

    Situation:

    Universal M18 Diesel, 14HP
    Campbell Sailor 3 blade 13RH P7- calculators say this is correct prop size for boat/engine configuration (VicProp shows 12.8/7.5 for a 3 blade).
    All new cooling/exhaust system hoses and exhaust elbow
    Oversized aftermarket heat exchanger, boiled clean 1 year ago
    Oberdorfer water pump is moving water through the system just fine
    Water Temperature 80 degrees F (freshwater)
    Tachometer accuracy verified with handheld tach
    Cruising RPM 2200 temperature stays around 180
    Max RPM achievable under power 2600 (should be 3200) and engine temp climbs to 200+ No black smoke.


    Is the boat overpropped? The calculators say this is the correct prop. The bottom is not entirely clean, but I never could get over about 2600 even when fresh. An incorrect prop is the only reason I can think why the engine will not reach rated RPM and starts to overheat. Unless I am missing something? What do other 30+ owners with the M18 or similar engines have for a prop?

    Thanks

    1984 Ericson 30+
    Hull #651

    Formerly 1972 Ericson 27

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