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Fire extinguisher and flare life

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
When is the last time you checked your flares and fire bottles? The flares have an obvious expiration. Too bad it was 20 years ago.

Fire extinguishers should replaced every 12 years if not be marked with an expiration date. NFPA 10 actually calls out a hydrostatic test and the non-refillables (disposables) are exempt, but the 12 year interval is generally considered to be the life of a disposable. In any event, since this one was made 32 years ago (1987) and it's my butt in the boat, it and it's 1986 mate are going to the county haz-mat waste and being replaced. West Marine currently has a 2 for 1 deal that is impossible to pass up.

ref https://nctc.fws.gov/courses/programs/safety/fireext/FWS Fire Extinguisher Inspection Training.pdf

20190511_140134-XL.jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
"The Rockets Red Glare..."

We have a three-pack of flare shells good until next fall, IIRC. I just produced them for show-n-tell for the annual VSC.
I have a lot of other packs, going back about 20 years.
Given that these little guys have such a short time aloft when fired, it pays to have a lot of them on hand.

I had all of the fire bottles re-certified last year - and usually have this done every other year.
Lat time around I also had the factory Halon bottle (engine compartment) check and re-tagged. I believe all they do it inspect it and weigh it.

We do carry more extinguishers than the minimum, tho. Two 5#, and one 2.5#.


I can kind of see the end of an era for the pyrotechnics, now that the laser versions are USCG approved and can last for an hour or more compared to ten seconds for the gun-fired ones.
We might get an electronic replacement next year.
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
The funny thing is that while I've never been pulled over in a motor or sail boat, I did get ramped by the USCG Aux yesterday.
For my kayak! LOL
Passed only because my better half came up and out of the clear blue without knowing what was going on, said that she just texted her Mom.
That qualified as our float plan.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
My current strategy: Purchase one new SOLAS parachute flare each spring. Shoot off one recently expired flare into the snow on NYE. Everything remains within specs and there are no massive replacement costs. Or at least the cost is spread out into a steady maintenance item. I suppose I should add a smoke signal or two to the rotation. I’ve got one of those new flashlight strobe thingies for compliance purposes (batteries stored separately in a ziplock) but it appears to be a joke.

Not as much a joke as those 12-gauge flares. As recounted elsewhere, I tried shooting off a few of them (recently expired) on a previous NYE. It took half an hour to bend the plastic gun - er, launcher - into a shape so that the firing pin would actually contact the shell. Then most of the flares barely went up 30 feet. The older ones exploded inside the gun. Good thing I was wearing welding gloves. Others have reported firing them at sea, only to have the wind carry the flare horizontally from the end of the gun into the face of the nearest wave.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Toddster, seriously, you need a new flare launcher i.e. "gun".
:0
Something really wrong with yours if you have to "bend" it to use it. Our old Olin launcher probably shots a flare up about 100 feet, give or take, and in 8 or ten seconds it's gone. That's why it is good to have a bunch of them on hand if there's a real emergency.

Also, ours is stored in the Olin "flat case" and that protects it very well. I found a picture of it on line.

Apropos of whatever.... those newer laser flares would be a Much Safer replacement for the old hand-held pyrotechnic devices that can easily burn the user and the deck of the boat.
 

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'm trying to think of a situation in 2019 where a flare is the solution to a problem.

If disabled in the East River of Manhattan at midnight in a four-knot current surrounded by tugboats, I guess it would help.

But I'd be on the VHF yelling for help. (I knew a skipper who was in this situation 50 years ago. It was the Fourth of July.)

Offshore it would be the GPS EPIRB that mattered, along with the sat phone. Rescuers would home in on the GPS location.

I guess a flare would help, but it would be a backup to all other systems.

Like all of us, I buy a new set of CG compliant flares every couple of years, just to be the go-along smiley-type guy I am if boarded by the armed men of my tax dollars. Must have 30 of them. Flares, not Coasties.

I conclude flares are necessary but probably last in rank.

Functioning GPS communication is where it's at, wherever you're at.
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Totally agree that flares these days are a nearly useless left-over from the bad old days. Maybe if the entire GPS and comm systems were put out by really bad solar flares . . .

Otherwise, to me these are kinda like an appendix. These days there are more negatives than positives but we still suffer through with them.
:0305_coff
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have a story in which a character is lost at sea and his daughter is trying to find him. She reads about the "float plan" he was "supposed to file," like a flight plan in aviation. So to see how the CG answers such questions, I called CG SAn Diego.

It was hilarious. The officer went on and on about "float plans." Here's a reconstruction--

"Are you kidding? You think we require a float plan? You think the USCG cares where you go on your sailboat? You think that's what we do all day? Really, I can't believe we get these calls. Our mission is to interdict, we got ships coming in, we got the border, we got thousand of miles to patrol, we're homeland security, sputter sputter.

"She's looking for her fathers' float plan? He was supposed to give it to HER, not us. I can;t believe there is this misunderstanding that the Coast Guard accepts float plans from recreational boaters, which we don;t and tell everybody you know!"
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Float plan? What am I missing. :confused:

Like Christian wrote, it's just letting somebody ashore know where you'll be, with whom, and for about how long. The idea is that you don't just disappear. It's item VIII-f on this form (this one is somebody else's from the web) which is what the inspectors check for.
safety_checklist.jpg
 

mfield

Member III
Shoot off one recently expired flare into the snow on NYE.

I have dutifully replaced flares and cartridges when expired but I have not found a good way of disposing of the old ones.

The big orange canister is now full of the most recent ones. I did manage to dispose of some ancient cartridges by cutting them up but the newer cartridges have a tougher plastic exterior and I would have to resort to power tools to open them. Seem's like a bad idea to use a sawzall on gunpower.

At a USCG class I took a couple of years ago they reminded us to replace expired flares but had no suggestions for places to dispose of the old ones.

I even offered a troop of boyscouts heading to Death Vally on a camping trip the flares but no takers.
 

Emerald

Moderator
I have a story in which a character is lost at sea and his daughter is trying to find him. She reads about the "float plan" he was "supposed to file," like a flight plan in aviation. So to see how the CG answers such questions, I called CG SAn Diego.

It was hilarious. The officer went on and on about "float plans." Here's a reconstruction--

"Are you kidding? You think we require a float plan? You think the USCG cares where you go on your sailboat? You think that's what we do all day? Really, I can't believe we get these calls. Our mission is to interdict, we got ships coming in, we got the border, we got thousand of miles to patrol, we're homeland security, sputter sputter.

"She's looking for her fathers' float plan? He was supposed to give it to HER, not us. I can;t believe there is this misunderstanding that the Coast Guard accepts float plans from recreational boaters, which we don;t and tell everybody you know!"

Thanks for the chuckle - liked the last part about filing with them.

Never in a million years would it cross my mind that a CG Auxiliary check would be asking about your float plan. Life jackets, extinguishers, flares, yes, but float plan, yeah, I'm single and told my dog.... (ok, girlfriend and kids would know, but you get the idea). On any given nice weekend day in the Annapolis area, you can practically walk across the river stepping deck to deck. My sink plan is to get picked up by a passer by..... :devil:
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Float plans

USCG does not require a float plan, and will not accept a float plan. But they do have a recommended set of information a float plan should contain, and a process for communicating it with them. The whole idea is that IF there is a problem, YOU have someone on shore who knows who to contact and what to tell them. The float-plan is sort of an accepted structure for that info.

Info and a PDF template here (USCG auxiliary): https://www.uscgboating.org/recreational-boaters/floating-plan.php

And... a couple of other version (instructions and form).

float-plan 00.jpgfloat-plan 01.jpgfloat-plan 02.jpg

Here's a copy of the float-plan from my cruise to the Rendezvous last July (lightly redacted, an unredacted version requires a congressional subpoena...)

float-plan BG.jpg

Bottom line... USCG doesn't care until there is a problem. If there is a problem, your float plan should be in the hands of people who will be able to figure out the situation and get the right info to the CG. The specific format doesn't matter, but the info and flow of information can be critical.

Bruce
 
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Emerald

Moderator
Thanks everyone for the info on float plans. I know what they are. My surprise is a fellow on a kayak getting asked about his float plan by a CG Auxillary stop, granted that perhaps on a kayak you're at pretty good risk of just disappearing around here when the wrong yahoo in a power boat fails to see you. And just for the record, I'm in no way poo pooing having a float plan and letting people know what's up, but like everything, there are varying degrees of necessity. To putt up the Severn and crisscross the Chesapeake a few times on a Saturday afternoon is a bit different than heading off shore, and then there's the whole gamut in between, of course.

Sadly, my last encounter with law enforcement on the water left a foul taste in my mouth. It was some years ago, I had lost my engine, and a friend and I were attempting to sail home with almost no wind. We were basically drifting in the Severn near the Naval Academy, but not in a restricted area, and we got shaken down pretty hard by someone who didn't know what a Type I life vest was and kept asking to see our Type II vests. :rolleyes: Finally was able to convince him my Type I vests were OK. Kid you not. Bottom line was he was totally obnoxious in every respect.
 
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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
A while back, someone pointed out that on your EPIRB beacon registration form and/or MMSI/Ship's Radio form there is a "comment" field. You can go on-line and edit that as much as you want with "float plan" information. Or more likely, put in a link to your boat's blog page (if any) or just a Facebook page or the like where you may be likely to announce forthcoming plans, photos of the boat, etc. There: filed. Nobody will ever look at those fields unless your beacon or DSC is activated. And then the information is right there. Of course, the missing link here is the "responsible person" on shore who would phone it in if you become overdue. It's up to you to trigger a response. And keep the posted information updated.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Aw, shucks.

In an airplane, a flight plan make sense because if you're overdue you're probably dead. Only so much gas, etc. I never bothered for local flights anyhow. The smoke from the crash would bring help.

In a sailboat, the whole idea of 'overdue' seems less useful. And asking somebody to decide when you're overdue seems quite a burden on them.

What I conclude is that if you need a float plan, you don't have the necessary communication equipment to leave the dock in safety.

Is that too harsh?

Single sideband or satphone is expensive, but seem to me necessary for any cruising beyond cell phone or guaranteed VHF range.

When things go bad fast, a GPS EPIRB and a life raft.

The EPIRB registray has who we are, address, and three phone numbers. They don't need to get my wife on the phone.

Perhaps I am missing something here....
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Well it's been a few years now, and things may have changed.....but back when I was sailing Rag Doll across Lake Huron each summer (1994 thorugh 2004) to get up to Canada for our annual cruise, we filed a float plan with the Canadian Coast Guard. Seriously. It basically amounted to our ETA and destination, and we were expected to contact them by VHF or phone to close out the plan when we arrived. There was an agreed upon leeway after the ETA, after which, if they had not heard from us, they would start broadcasting via VHF a notice to look out for us as being overdue.
 

frick

Member III
Deposed of old flares

I have dutifully replaced flares and cartridges when expired but I have not found a good way of disposing of the old ones.

The big orange canister is now full of the most recent ones. I did manage to dispose of some ancient cartridges by cutting them up but the newer cartridges have a tougher plastic exterior and I would have to resort to power tools to open them. Seem's like a bad idea to use a sawzall on gunpower.

At a USCG class I took a couple of years ago they reminded us to replace expired flares but had no suggestions for places to dispose of the old ones.

I even offered a troop of boyscouts heading to Death Vally on a camping trip the flares but no takers.


Our Boy Scout troop love to get the old flares and use them for demonstration and instruction.
Rick
 
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