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red-neck fuel-tank cleanup?

Pat C.

Member III
From what I understand about all this, the debris is microbial growth that occurs at the fuel/water interface. The Biobor is a control for the growth but the water in the tank is necessary for that growth to occur. That's why I put a polishing system in years ago, just a Racor filter with a bowl with it's own fuel pump, teed into the same intake tube and returns fuel back to the tank. I wanted to get the water out to avoid tank corrosion and possible leaking someday. In my boat, I don't think you can get the fuel tank out without cutting it out, along with some pretty serious dissambly of the interior.
Wasn't really concerned over the debris in the tank, I figured the system and the engine fuel filters would eventually handle that.

I run it before every start up. I'll even run it with the engine running. One would think it could starve the engine from fuel using the same pickup tube, but I've never had a problem. Picks up a lot of debris when sailing with the fuel being jostled around. Can tell when the filter needs replacing when the pump gets loud, I've never put a vacuum gauge downstream of the filter. When the tank is full I don't get much of anything, when it's less than full, I'm often surprised how much water is in the bowl, condensation I guess.
 
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Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Bruce,

Don't know if you made a decision on your fuel tank cleanup or not. I just pulled my tank last week so I thought I'd show you what I found. Here's what I got when I was "sticking the tank" to estimate how much fuel I had left. Wasn't trying to dig up grunge at the time, just measure the fuel. Turns out I had about 5 gal remaining at the time.

20190512_162440.jpg

Here's what the inside of the tank looked like once drained:

20190515_214709.jpg

20190515_214930.jpg(this one taken through the fill port--the aft section of the tank)

All the sludge settles to the low point--the walls and elevated portions of the tank looked very clean. My plan is to install a single 6" cleanout port above the "low" part of the tank. I'm not too worried about the aft section of the tank (behind the single baffle)--this part of the tank seems to stay pretty clean. A local radiator shop estimated $225 to clean and pressure test the tank. I passed. Rather do it myself for that price (though a pressure test would be nice).

As to your situation. I don't imagine you could do any harm by sucking at the bottom of the tank with your oil extractor. You'd have to keep checking to see when the extraction seems "clean." You'd probably also have to do it more than once to let all the gunk re-settle to the low point.

I pumped the remaining 5 gal directly from the tank (unfiltered) with a spare Facet fuel pump in about 9 minutes. Then I dumped the fuel at Pierce county recycling.

I know you already have clean-out ports installed. If you wanted, you could pump your existing fuel through your filters (polish it) using your installed lift pump and filters and hold the fuel in 5 gal diesel jugs. Then, if you just pulled the inspection plate over the low side of the tank, you could wipe out all the gunk. Then, you'd get to refill with already-polished fuel.

That's likely my projected tank maintenance plan going forward. In the meantime, I'm trying to rig a portable 3-gal fuel jug to the boat so I can get her out of drydock. The portable tank's supply line is easy to hook up with standard fittings. It's adding the fuel-return and vent lines that complicates matters.
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
^^^ ugh. That's... not pretty.

Attempt #1 at trying to suck (whatever) from the bottom of my tank was unsuccessful. I couldn't "steer" the hose from the suction pump with any degree of control. I may try taping the hose to a piece of dowl or stiff tubing and try again. Sorta low on the priority list at the moment.

What's moving up my list is rethinking the configuration of my fuel system. My primary (Racor) is port-side in the engine bay, about even (fore and aft) with the shaft coupling, and low. Bottom of the bowl is only an inch or so above the stringer in the bilge. The secondary filter is on the starboard side of the engine. Both are not easy to get to. Having just changed my fuel-filters last weekend, and having the aches and groans associated with wedging myself into unnatural positions to do it... I'm pondering whether there might be places I could mount the filters that would make the whole process easier to do.

One thought is to build an "upright", as I did for the sea-water strainer, and mount the filters on it where they will be visible and accessible. I'm not sure yet where would be a good spot for that upright, as I don't want to block access to heat-exchanger, transmission, shaft-coupling, etc.

But... before I even go down that path, I'm curious to know whether there are important reasons for having the filters in their current locations. Does the primary have to be lower than the tank? Does the secondary have to be within some max-distance from the injector head? Does the lift pump have to be between the primary and secondary? Is there any reason NOT to have the lift-pump, primary filter and secondary filter all side-by-side (or stacked?) on the tank side of the engine bay?

My fantasy is that I'd be able to pull the quarterberth panel, see at a glance whether there's water or sediment in the bowl, and drain/change/bleed as needed, all at eye-level.

Hey, a guy can dream...

Bruce
 

debonAir

Member III
The fuel filter on the back starboard side is there because that's where it is on the tractor the engine was built for I think. Some marinizers (Beta Marine?) move it up front.

The Racor wants to be on the "vacuum" side of the lift pump (between tank and lift pump). It needs that suction to work properly, at least according to Racor (I just bought one and am contemplating the install at the moment).

I currently have a secondary spin-on filter up front which is a lot easier to change than the rear one, but I am thinking of removing that, and moving the lift pump there, and putting the Racor on the front port side where the lift pump is now. If it is there, I can mount it high enough to easily drain the bowl, and still change the filter element (I got the huge 500MA with cheap top-load filter elements) by lifting the top cover off the engine bay.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
What's moving up my list is rethinking the configuration of my fuel system. My primary (Racor) is port-side in the engine bay, about even (fore and aft) with the shaft coupling, and low. Bottom of the bowl is only an inch or so above the stringer in the bilge. The secondary filter is on the starboard side of the engine. Both are not easy to get to. Having just changed my fuel-filters last weekend, and having the aches and groans associated with wedging myself into unnatural positions to do it... I'm pondering whether there might be places I could mount the filters that would make the whole process easier to do.

One thought is to build an "upright", as I did for the sea-water strainer, and mount the filters on it where they will be visible and accessible. I'm not sure yet where would be a good spot for that upright, as I don't want to block access to heat-exchanger, transmission, shaft-coupling, etc.

Yeah, same issues here. I've been copying pics of configurations I like when I see them. Here are two I like:

fuel filter.jpg eng compartment.jpg

I'll probably move my secondary filter to the location shown in the first picture (or, build an "upright" like you suggest, similar to what we both did to add raw-water strainers).

My first-stage filter is low near the port stringer like yours, but it's the (original?) Fram cartridge type. Probably not as good as a Racor, but pretty easy to work with. It has a brass drain nut on the bottom, and the body removes with a socket wrench on the top, center bolt. It works for now.


20161021_161504.jpg

Probably time for me to put a new Facet pump in though.
 

Second Star

Member III
If the filter is on the suction side of the fuel lift pump, how do you get air out of it when you do a filter change? Is the filter assembly well below the level of the fuel tank? The facet pump has a filter in the bottom to protect the pump also.
 

debonAir

Member III
The Facet electric lift pumps are "self priming", for at least a foot or two lift and should be able to suck air until the filter is full while you bleed the air out. You can also pre-fill the spin-ons with fuel to speed the bleed operation. The larger Racors load the filter element from the top and remain full of fuel so less of a problem there. If your lift pump cant prime itself you probably have a pin-hole or loose hose air leek between it and the tank.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Details of tank baffle

Adding an enlarged picture of the tank interior for another used who asked me about it. This shot is taken from the fill tube in the aft of the tank, looking forward at the baffle in the middle of the tank.
 

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garryh

Member III
"Does anyone know how to install an inspection port on my fuel tank?"
Noticed on your second post that you have an A4 with a gasoline tank. The conversations re inspection ports in fuel tanks relate to diesel, not gasoline. It is not a common practice to install inspection ports on gasoline tanks (or drain plugs) due to the potential serious danger of fumes with even the tiniest leak. On a previous boat I pulled the tank and let a gallon of carb cleaner sit in the lower levels and swished it around regularly; I also fashioned a redneck scraper out of a bit of 1/4" copper tubing and a Scotchbrite pad that I fed down the fill tube to dislodge any goop (fasten securely and be quick since it will dissolve; or use brass wool). Then a thorough swishing of the tank several times.
An inspection port in a gasoline tank is not a good idea. (just the installation process in a tank full of fumes could be hazardous)
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
how to loosen diesel filler hose from tank?

I've finally started my fuel tank removal process - to see if/where the tank is leaking.
I got everything disconnected yesterday except for the big filler hose and the smaller vent hose which are attached to the aft end of the tank - see pic (clamps are removed).

Another forum member was able to loosen his hoses by twisting them and pushing them toward the tank first, but mine are jammed up hard against the tank.
I'm unable to twist/budge either hose by hand, so now I'm seeking advice about escalating this effort.
I really really want to be able to reuse these hoses - they'd be a bear to have to replace.

Is there an acceptable lubricant I can spray around the ends of the hoses, hoping it would penetrate the flange-hose space?

Can I use judicious pressure to twist the hoses using a pipe wrench or big ViseGrip wrench? (i.e., just enough force to grab the hose, without compressing the flange it's jammed onto)

Any advice will be much appreciated.

One more thing FYI - I was a bit naughty and used this oil pump to suck the ~8 gallons of old diesel out of the tank through the fuel gauge hole - it worked great (the pump's instructions say it's not for diesel...) - it poured easily into a couple of 5-gal plastic diesel jerry cans.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--manual-oil-changer-6-9-quart--11047123?recordNum=1
 

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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I have heard of a tool called a "hose removal tool" which a previous mechanic suggested I buy to assist with those tough hoses. I haven't done so, but did look it up at the time. If I recall correctly, it had a handle like a screwdriver, but the tip was bent 90 degrees to allow it to slip inside/underneath the hose to free it up. You may want to look into that as an option. Good luck!
Frank
 

debonAir

Member III
Is there an acceptable lubricant I can spray around the ends of the hoses, hoping it would penetrate the flange-hose space?

The hoses have been repeatedly exposed to diesel from the inside which is a pretty good lubricant already, and with the clamps loose some might seep down a bit. I'd shy away from applying anything externally because you risk getting those hoses slippery which won't help with the removal. Not much room there to get anything to go UP the hose between the hose and pipe it's tightly on.

Get a heat gun and place some aluminum foil a few inches behind the hoses to keep some hot air on the back of them and warm them up good for a while and then, with gloves, try and twist/pull them up, prying the bottom lip up with a ripping bar or dull flat screwdriver, etc.

Maybe a vice grip around the tube to get it to start twisting a bit, but not too tight to deform the pipe inside, or clamp the hose down too much. If all that fails you might consider cutting those hoses high enough away that you could splice them back together with a coupler until that day you replace or re-bed the deck fittings.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Maybe a vice grip around the tube to get it to start twisting a bit

I'd (personally) probably stay away from vice-grips... way too easy to clamp down too hard and potentially damage the hose or the tank fitting.

A good strap-wrench might be a decent alternative to try, though.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I'm gonna try one of these:

Cool! I've got a pair of these tucked on the boat, and have found them to be really useful in a surprising number of projects.

https://www.amazon.com/Oil-Filter-W...49Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I think they were something like 10 bucks for the pair at Home Depot.

I'd caution (as with everything on our aging boats) not to use too much muscle with whatever tools you use. If the hose is truly married to the fitting, cutting it off will end up being a lot smaller project than ... I don't know, pulling the tank to have a new inlet welded on, or something.

Bruce
 
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nquigley

Sustaining Member
Cool! I've got a pair of these tucked on the boat, and have found them to be really useful in a surprising number of projects.

https://www.amazon.com/Oil-Filter-W...49Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I think they were something like 10 bucks for the pair at Home Depot.

I'd caution (as with everything on our aging boats) not to use too much muscle with whatever tools you use. If the hose is truly married to the fitting, cutting it off will end up being a lot smaller project than ... I don't know, pulling the tank to have a new inlet welded on, or something.

Bruce
Thanks, Bruce. I'll get a pair of those too (they're cheap) - I can imagine that rigging two of those units on my reluctant hose (one for each hand) might work better than one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I hear your admonition against risking this project becoming much more complicated (read: $$$). I've also considered the 'worst-case' solution of cutting both hoses, tearing off the married bits, and then using some sort of coupler to join the new ends of the old hoses with short pieces of new hose on the inlet flanges.

Why is nothing easy on old boats??
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi,
I agree with trying to use a fuel filter wrench, but the one you showed in your pic appears to use a hex key to turn it, which in my opinion would not be as strong leverage as a similar priced one, also shown lower in your attachment, which has a square attachment allowing you to use a half inch wrench to turn it. I have one of those, and use it successfully all the time for oil and fuel filter changes. Just a suggestion.
Frank
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
Hi,
I agree with trying to use a fuel filter wrench, but the one you showed in your pic appears to use a hex key to turn it, which in my opinion would not be as strong leverage as a similar priced one, also shown lower in your attachment, which has a square attachment allowing you to use a half inch wrench to turn it. I have one of those, and use it successfully all the time for oil and fuel filter changes. Just a suggestion.
Frank
In the pic, it looks like a hex key hole, but it's actually a square hole for a socket wrench adapter - check the video provided in that link. I bet one can get a good amount of torque on the part being unscrewed.
 
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