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32-200 Leaky portlights are fun

frosero7744

Member II
Before i open the can of worms, i thought i would channel some insight here. My Gal has leaky port lights. Well the 4 non opening portlights have leaked at some point you can tell from the wood damage. Currently only the one over the nav table leaks from the glass at the bottom and drips off the screwhead when it rains. The weird thing is the windows are sealed off on the outside with plastic and taped shut. I'm worried its leaking from higher up and running in the deck to the window. Moisture was scanned at survey with low readings. From reading others posts, my current thought is to replace the portlights with Lewmar size 1 and open the holes up a bit bigger. i would like a out of the box replacement but dont really find any options except Bomon in Canada but its $$$$. Anyhow, last time to the boat i tightened up every screw in the cabin top i could find. ill find out this weekend if any difference was made. Any thoughts on a possible source for the leak or reasoning why it could leak when sealed outside the boat? Also thoughts on best approach for refurb or replacement of portlights.

DSC04861.jpgDSC04864.jpg
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One thing to do is to remove the inner cover* of the fixed ports. That gives a view of the sealant beneath. Have somebody else direct a strong hose jet at the glass from outside, probing for weaknesses.

Is the leak from the bedding, or from the gasket that holds the glass, or both?

The fixed ports can have sneaky leaks. Water enters invisibly, then migrates invisibly between the veneer and the glass of the cabin house. It enters the veneer through its own raw edge around the frame, where old caulking has lost its sealing power. Water in there lingers, even if the port is taped over.

It seemslikely that the fixed ports themselves are the issue, so give a full investigation priority.

*The inner covers are decorative, Just take out the screws.

(Also, open the ceiling liner zippers above the fixed ports and feel around in there for peace of mind).
 
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frosero7744

Member II
One thing to do is to remove the inner cover* of the fixed ports. That gives a view of the sealant beneath. Have somebody else direct a strong hose jet at the glass from outside, probing for weaknesses.

Is the leak from the bedding, or from the gasket that holds the glass, or both?

The fixed ports can have sneaky leaks. Water enters invisibly, then migrates invisibly between the veneer and the glass of the cabin house. It enters the veneer through its own raw edge around the frame, where old caulking has lost its sealing power. Water in there lingers, even if the port is taped over.

It seemslikely that the fixed ports themselves are the issue, so give a full investigation priority.

*The inner covers are decorative, Just take out the screws.

(Also, open the ceiling liner zippers above the fixed ports and feel around in there for peace of mind).

The water springs up from between the glass and metal frame just above the screw then drips off the screw head. I'm waiting for this weird weather to dry up and get things apart and ill do as you suggested with the hose test. Thanks for the tips
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Ah. Now our fixed-light gasket replacement experts will step in. Here's a start:

 
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kapnkd

kapnkd
Ah. Now our fixed-light gasket replacement experts will step in. Here's a start:


Thanks for the prestigious but overstated title Christian. Said project was indeed a real learning experience to say the least, especially getting the larger aluminum frame halves back together.

Only thing to add to that information he may want to try first would be using some Capt. Tolly Window Sealer along the vinyl to glass seals (especially on the outside facing glass). If the leaking areas aren’t too large, this may just work. After all that rebuild, we DID have two minor leaks but Capt Tolly is a very thin liquid silicone that penetrates into the path water takes. It worked perfectly for us. (Capt. Tolly Window Sealant is sold at West Marine.)

-kerry
 
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frosero7744

Member II
Thanks for the prestigious but overstated title Christian. Said project was indeed a real learning experience to say the least, especially getting the larger aluminum frame halves back together.

Only thing to add to that information he may want to try first would be using some Capt. Tolly Window Sealer along the vinyl to glass seals (especially on the outside facing glass). If the leaking areas aren’t too large, this may just work. After all that rebuild, we DID have two minor leaks but Capt Tolly is a very thin liquid silicone that penetrates into the path water takes. It worked perfectly for us. (Capt. Tolly Window Sealant is sold at West Marine.)

-​kerry

Looks like a spanking good time. Thanks all y'all
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
From reading others posts, my current thought is to replace the portlights with Lewmar size 1 and open the holes up a bit bigger. i would like a out of the box replacement but dont really find any options except Bomon in Canada but its $$$$.

I replaced my four fixed portlights with identical replacements from Mark Plastics in Corona, CA, a still operating original supplier to Ericson. Details including pricing in post #9 & 11 here:


Owner is Mark Heacox at (951)735-7705

My original acrylic lens were crazed badly so my new portlights are tinted glass which won't craze. I had no leaks between the lens and frame in my original portlights and the vinyl frame still looked good when I replaced them. The white vinyl portlight frame is a much more durable vinyl in the current version and can be painted if the white bothers you. I didn't.

Get the Lewmar size 1 opening ports in stainless so you never have to replace then again.

Mark
 
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Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Break out some boat bucks and buy Bomans. I did and I’ve never seen a more dry view of high humidity and salt spray from the arid comfort of the 32-200 cabin!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
(Hmmm. Resurrected the wrong thread. Oh well, these problems never go away)

I haven't had to take apart the fixed portlights, but if there's an issue reassembling them this may help:

 
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kapnkd

kapnkd
I haven't had to take apart the fixed portlights, but if there's an issue reassembling them this may help:


Hi Christian,

Thanks for your vote of confidence on my old posting of how I handled the problems of replacing rubber/vinyl glass seals. (Seeing it again reminded me of why I started drinking. Fingers crossed I will be out of rehab before much longer!)
:egrin:

Hopefully too you’ll never have to replace your old seals. Almost 20 years of Florida sun inevitably had A LOT to do with the deterioration of mine.

If ports start leaking/weeping small amounts of water for others - a product “Capt. Tolley’s Creeping Crack Cure” is worth a shot before taking on the ominous task of rebuilding ports/windows.

Also, there’s a company in Ohio, name eludes me at the moment, that sells the seal extrusion at a better price than Catalina’s Kit.

...Offshore Sailing - the BEST way for the new trend of “Social Distancing”
;););)
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
@frosero7744 Just a heads up that I have the same leak in the same corner over my nav station.

I think this is partly a design/build flaw on these window frames. I suspect the frame is a straight extrusion that was subsequently heated and bent into the trapezoidal window shape. Where the most bend is required (in the acute angle lower corner) the channel for sealant is compressed and narrowed in the metal frame. Combine that with the hull beginning to curve back towards the cockpit and a space where water can get in begins to present itself.

Here's the location I mean, with my window dry-fit without any sealant or bedding.

IMG_9743.JPG

I just re-bedded this window and it was pretty easy. The 'design flaw' just means one has to get extra sealant into that location.

I have thus far chickened out on replacing the glass, which would be nice but seems like a potential huge PITA.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
@frosero7744 Just a heads up that I have the same leak in the same corner over my nav station.

I think this is partly a design/build flaw on these window frames. I suspect the frame is a straight extrusion that was subsequently heated and bent into the trapezoidal window shape. Where the most bend is required (in the acute angle lower corner) the channel for sealant is compressed and narrowed in the metal frame. Combine that with the hull beginning to curve back towards the cockpit and a space where water can get in begins to present itself.

Here's the location I mean, with my window dry-fit without any sealant or bedding.

View attachment 35521

I just re-bedded this window and it was pretty easy. The 'design flaw' just means one has to get extra sealant into that location.

I have thus far chickened out on replacing the glass, which would be nice but seems like a potential huge PITA.

You’re right about pulling the large ports/window frame halves apart and being a PITA. ...Coming apart - not so much, but compressing the two back together had me adding several more advanced words to the infamous book of “four letter sailing terminology”!!

IF you ever DO go that route, check out the link Christian sent you on a needed jig to help get get those halves to compress better. (The sharp slope on the ends of the trapezoid will have whatever you try simply sliding/slipping off without a jig.)

(My wife dragged me in to a church confessional after I finished it all....and I’m NOT EVEN Catholic!!! ;-)))))...be ready!)

Seriously though, with planning and plenty of patience, it IS doable and ultimately worth the efforts. Our boat is now dryer than the day I bought her brand new!!!!

Good luck and - PLEASE - keep us ALL posted with your efforts, learned and used techniques. This is always an issue for us boaters.

-kerry
 

frosero7744

Member II
You’re right about pulling the large ports/window frame halves apart and being a PITA. ...Coming apart - not so much, but compressing the two back together had me adding several more advanced words to the infamous book of “four letter sailing terminology”!!

IF you ever DO go that route, check out the link Christian sent you on a needed jig to help get get those halves to compress better. (The sharp slope on the ends of the trapezoid will have whatever you try simply sliding/slipping off without a jig.)

(My wife dragged me in to a church confessional after I finished it all....and I’m NOT EVEN Catholic!!! ;-)))))...be ready!)

Seriously though, with planning and plenty of patience, it IS doable and ultimately worth the efforts. Our boat is now dryer than the day I bought her brand new!!!!

Good luck and - PLEASE - keep us ALL posted with your efforts, learned and used techniques. This is always an issue for us boaters.

-kerry

Church confessional for sure. I think figured out after spraying the hose around I think the water was coming from the traveler mount. So I sealed that up. I used some captain tolley sealer around the port light frames also and havent leaked since. One project down team.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Church confessional for sure. I think figured out after spraying the hose around I think the water was coming from the traveler mount. So I sealed that up. I used some captain tolley sealer around the port light frames also and havent leaked since. One project down team.

God BLESS “Capt. Tolley”!! ...After completely redoing ALL our ports, we still had a couple very minor leaks. As small as they were, they were STILL LEAKS! (ARRRRRGHH!) Capt Tolley stopped them all easily!

If it’s one thing I’ve learned over the years...Leaks happen!! (Just like the old expression/T-shirt, “S**t Happens!)

It’s also amazing how ANY leak can easily find its way to find you sound asleep at 3 AM and magically drip on your forehead!!!

Alas, part of sailing and why we cleverly change sides with our spouse in the V-Berth! ;-))))
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Another way to "fix" problems with the old split frame fixed ports is to.... Blasphemy alert! ..... replace them with external lenses like our Olson's.
(I am sure that the ancient Viking ship builders would have used polycarbonate and even fiberglass.... if these materials had existed. After all, they used every *known* trick of ship building at the time to make their vessels very fast and sea worthy.)
:egrin:
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Can you post a picture of your external lenses? How does one seal the lens against the hull?
Since our boat is stripped of all windows for a re-paint, for a while longer, perhaps some other owners can help out. Basically, the lens is held on by screws and a 1/8 inch thick bed of adhesive sealant, with about an inch of overlap onto the cabin side beyond the opening. Some other brands of boats do this with sealant alone, but Ericson used a "belt n suspenders" approach since this was designed to be cruised and raced as an offshore boat (like your boat...!)
:)
 

clayton

Member III
I checked in with Select Plastics in Norwalk, Ct. earlier this season as they have a page on their website detailing that they can rebuild the old Lewmar large fixed portlights and offer a "no muss, no fuss" replacement. Approximate cost for the 4 approached $1200. Several years back I bought 4 Moonlight (Danish, sold by Scandvik) portlights on the cheap which are very close in shape and size. Shopping for glass/gel coat quotes to modify the original poorly cut openings to accommodate the Moonlight portlights. The forward Lewmars are the 4L and 4R, pricing online varies, trendy but an option. The rears are the odd shape, could use the Lewmar 4L & R modifying the opening. An E 34-2 sold in our area some years back, the owner had replaced the 4 fixed portlights with external mounted lenses as Loren describes. Still looked like an Ericson, but the broker felt it affected the sale price downward as it wasn't "original ".
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Maintaining the look of original parts will impress some buyers motivated by a sort of 'concours' expectation, while others will be indifferent or even like to see an upgrade. I would just like to see the iconic trapezoidal shape maintained, for that Ericson "look".
Oddly enough, the Olson's have very similar fixed port shapes. I surmise that George Smith and Bruce King must have had coffee together regularly. Maybe. Perhaps.(?)

Also, and I may have read it here many years ago, EY supposedly negotiated a 'custom' Ericson port shape from Lewmar for their fixed port design.
 
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