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Chart plotter

We are looking at upgrading our electronics and am interested in your thoughts on chart plotters? What you use, what you like and why?

thanks!
Shannon
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?13495-Instruments&referrerid=28

Pretty good thread, and my opinion has not changed about Lowrance. Unfortunately, the powerful effect of permanent magnets in the little chip doors on many models of gear is still a problem for a lot of makes and models, too. I talked this over with the tech guy and gal at our local brick-n-mortar marine electronics store the other day, and they wish the instrument makers would stop installing those little powerful compass-disrupters in many of the models. :(

Update: a month ago I did add a shoot-thru-hull depth transducer that plugs into the cable buss for the Lowrance system. Now we have backup depth info available to our plotter screen as well as using our older Raymarine DS instrument (ST-60) mounted on the cabin back. We like having Wind and Boat Speed, but knowing the depth is more vital to everyday sailing here on the river.
 
Thanks For the link

Hi Loren, thanks for this. We have been looking at the B&G Vulcan, Raymarine axiom and simrad G09, but will look at the Lowrance. Good tip on the magnets.
 

kiwisailor

Member III
Blogs Author
We are looking at upgrading our electronics and am interested in your thoughts on chart plotters? What you use, what you like and why?

thanks!
Shannon

I'm not a fan of dedicated chart plotters as nav technology dates so quickly. I actually prefer using a tablet, and paper charts, with the relevant chart software iNavX, Navionics, Open CPN or whatever. Purchase a tablet with a toughcase for water proofing and one with an internal GPS. On my Samsung tablet I use OpenCPN and a WiFi connection back to my Vesper AIS SeaTalk network so I get all AIS targets and boat navigation/GPS data on my tablet.

Having said that I actually have a dedicated chart plotter at my nav desk as a back up and also to enable me to do firmware updates to the Raymarine network components. But, I only installed the most basic model available and now it's already outdated!

In the following picture you can see the tablet at the top of the binnacle. The JRC 1800 chartplotter/radar on the binnacle NavPod came with the boat and still works so I've kept it as a back up too.
 

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debonAir

Member III
I thought about going the tablet route, but, once I added up the cost of the tablets, the software, the hard case, the mount so I wouldn't have to hold it, and running the charging cord, etc. it ended up being like an inexpensive chart plotter that misses a few key features of a "real" chart plotter. The main one is screen-brightness. Real chart plotters can get much brighter than tablets which translates to daylight readability at the helm.

I ended up with a Raymarine es78. I thought about the axiom and lower-end line, but chose the es because of the other differentiating feature: real buttons. Touch screens are fine until you're wet, and it's raining, and rain drops fall on your screen, etc. I also wanted radar integrated with the system, and WM had the es78 with a wifi chirp radar bundled for about $2k and I'm super happy with the system. Also put the thing in a carbon fiber box on a swivel mount instead of a fixed white box. It is very nice to be able to turn the thing sideways and down when steering from the side of the wheel. Also nice to be able to see other boats and even bouys on the radar in thick fog overlaid on the chart.

chartplotter.jpg
 

Slick470

Member III
In your original post you mention upgrading electronics. Are you intending on updating anything else other than the chart plotter? The reason I ask is the most of the modern electronics systems that utilize the NMEA 2000 communication protocol use the chart plotter (MFD) as the software update path for the various system components and you need an MFD of the same brand, or family of brands to update other system components.

For instance, if you have B&G Triton displays then you need a B&G (or Simrad or Lowrance) MFD to apply software updates to those displays. This is even more critical if you have a newer autopilot in your system as it may not work properly if the most recent update is not applied. Yes, you can get a tech to come to your boat and apply these updates, but that will add up over time.

I installed a B&G Triton W/S/D package along with a Raymarine Evo autopilot. I then bought a B&G Vulcan MFD because it was on sale and it seemed that it had better sailing features than the Raymarine MFDs. What I quickly found out was both B&G and Raymarine push out updates pretty often for their respective products. Some updates are to fix bugs, some are to add functionality. After installing everything, I quickly found out that my autopilot needed an update for it to work properly, but I was stuck because I didn't have a Raymarine MFD. If I had bought the Raymarine MFD instead of the B&G, I wouldn't be able to update my Tritons and have the latest and greatest features, but they would still work without the updates, unlike the AP.

So after searching around online for a good deal, I now also own a Raymarine MFD just so I can update the components in my system without calling a tech out to the boat. Not ideal, but now my autopilot works properly.

I guess the long point of the above, is be careful mixing and matching system components from various manufacturers and I would recommend matching the MFD to the autopilot at least. Another advantage of this arrangement is you can use the MFD as a control head for the AP. I can "see" the Ray AP through the Vulcan, but I cannot control it other than setting a "sail to waypoint" course. I need the AP control head for full control..
 

gadangit

Member III
We have an ipad running iNavx and a dedicated Raymarine es78 chart plotter installed at the nav station down below. The ipad also has a Raymarine app that mirrors what is on the screen down below with full control of the system, so that is pretty cool.

I absolutely love iNavx, I have crossed the Gulf of Mexico five times, been up and down the eastern seaboard twice using the iPad. 5 years ago it was better than what most people had installed in their boats. I don't believe that to be true any longer.

We had one thing go wrong with the ipad last year when we were about 20 miles from making landfall at Isla Mujeres after 4 days at sea: the ipad did a hard reset on a random whim and it won't allow a reboot until you have an internet connection. Not what you want from your chartplotter when you are trying to hit a pass over a reef. Our chartplotter down below is visible from the helm, so we were able to use that no problem. I had paper charts and such, so we would have been fine, but it would have been a pain.

I've used a laptop running OpenCPN in the past which worked great. I plan on doing that again but on a small form factor PC at the navstation.

There are lots of great options right now, good luck.
 

David Grimm

E38-200
I sailed a new to me boat from NY to Maryland last season. Having my Samsung S7 phone with Navionics saved the day. I mean 6 days! Having an old Garmin at the helm was great too. I ran both all day. It is true that the chart plotters are way brighter then the tablets and phones. I heard from a WM employee that Garmin is going to come out with G3 software on the 942 soon. So I'm waiting impatiently for this to happen before I buy the combo. Chartplotter/Raydar. We get fog so thick up in the northeast it would be crazy to not have it. I hear it will overlay my Vesper AIS and wifi out to my Samsung 10.1 tablet that I keep magnetically attached at the nav station.

One more note. Garmin purchased Navionics.

Dave.
 
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Location of chart plotter

Thank you once again for sharing your insight and experience.

Always —- One more question.

Where did you mount your instruments? We have three pods on our helm (wind, speed, depth) and the gps down on the port side beside the helm. We’ve decided on replacing the gps with a Multi function unit and have considered replacing the pods or placing on the exterior cabin wall or possibly using a ram unit that folds out of the cabin in the companionway.

Thoughts on location? Ease of use? Challenges? Photos are always great
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One bit of trivia about mounting stuff under the top of the SS guard. I took our guard off and had about a foot added to each leg. That lift gained a decent amount of room for the plotter and gave it enough height above the compass to further reduce the possibility of interference.

Still, when our local marine electronics store let me "check out" three different new units for a trial fit, all the ones with a Perm. Magnet for holding their little chart chip door closed DID disturb our compass card. I went with the Lowrance model with the friction catch door.
 
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fool

Member III
Where did you mount your instruments? (snip...) or possibly using a ram unit that folds out of the cabin in the companionway.

We have the ram in the companionway. It was where the old radar display was mounted when I got the boat.

https://www.gpscity.com/ram-mount-vertical-dual-bent-swing-arm-with-post-plate

I like it as it can be read from almost anywhere below, or by anyone in the cockpit and folds securely out of site when not in use.

It now holds a Raymarine E97 (touch screen with redundant dials) networked with below deck autopilot, depth, radar, and Ray70 VHF with AIS. (Damned if they just didn't release the Ray73 with wireless remote mic station capability.) The helm gets the control head (P70) for heading and the autopilot. The RayControl App is pretty nifty on the ipad and phone but not as responsive as manipulating the MFD.

http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=3939

Speaking of the ipad, we also have iNavx (in for a penny, in for a pound) so there is that too. iNavx on the pad displays AIS from the Digital Yachts iAIS wifi. iNavx is a really nifty program and NOAA charts can be downloaded for free (RNC, ENC and PDF along with the Coast Pilot).

https://www.charts.noaa.gov/InteractiveCatalog/nrnc.shtml

If you want to splice a line or knot a rope the pad is loaded with Sampson Splices and Grog Knots. For weather there is GRIBview, SailFlow, Windy, and WeatherTrack. For seaworthy advice there are back issues of Practical Sailor and every issue of Woodenboat. For some reason the maintenance records haven't been programmed onto the ipad, go figure.

The ipad is also an entertainment suite which includes TED talks and our very own Christian Williams, reading from Alone Together and Philosophy of Sailing, available on Audible and Amazon dot com.

And I'm told there is a camera in there somewhere if I can ever bothered to use it.

Paper charts are folded into roughly 12" x 16" to fit onto a sketch clipboard to make them manageable i.e portable, and kept in a pocket on the bulkhead behind the ram, don't leave home without 'em. I'm a sucker for a NOAA paper chart.

https://frugalnavigator.com/products/18720

https://www.amnautical.com/blogs/video-resources/15403161-how-to-fold-a-nautical-chart#.XK6-vetKiRs

Which is best?

IMHO the one you have your eye on at the moment. I've had friends follow their handheld Garmin 78 from port to anchorage and back, accurately, reliably, and timely, but that may have as much to do with the familiarity of the captain and crew as with the gear.

Always —- One more question.

Please never stop asking.
 

David Grimm

E38-200
So you are saying the Garmin 942 has a magnetic cover? Are the magnets on the cover or on the unit?
Unfortunately for me the WM that I go to is over an hour away. I don't recall them having the covers on display in the stoor. I would like to keep my compass accurate. Loren, I will most likely get the binnacle guard extended so not to totally block the compass. I used the compass out at sea mostly just to save power. But in all honesty I could sail this boat from NY to Bermuda with a couple of cell phones. May not be the most efficient or the safest way to go but light years ahead of what Christian was using back in the 60's. And yes what ever bit of technology you put in the boat today will be obsolete in short time. It's a balancing act between money, time, safty and what makes you comfortable. I have a hand held Garmin on the boat as well, it workes but is pretty old lcd type sceen. I never looked at it once. Ok. I'm rambling, anyone else have a 942?
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Late to the party but we have a Garmin 740s mounted on a custom made ss bracket attached to the starboard side of the binnacle on the platform where the old Datamarine pod was mounted. It has AIS and radar.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
the Power of a Magnet

Those powerful little magnets on the chip doors are extremely easy to identify. When you put your finger nail under the little indentation and pull it open... and then let it shut with a 'snap'... that's it! Or just hold any little piece of steel within a half inch....
The other way involves the little plastic 'door' being gently pushed in against a friction catch nubbin.
(no way to confuse the two methods)

The technicians at our electronics store (darned near) moan and shake their heads over the indifference and stupidity of the manufacturers over this obvious blunder. :0

OTOH, there are models to choose from that are intended for actual navigation areas on actual boats. Like our boats.

When they allowed (as an established customer -- which is more tactful that being called an old customer) to take several $1K+ units at once over to my boat to hold them carefully in their proposed mounting spot, this allowed me to see the problem in the real world.

I was very careful to keep the packaging in perfect condition when removing the instrument head. I returned the two 'losers' and kept the 'winner' in the Magnetism Derby. :rolleyes:
I tried a Lowrance and a couple of Simard units. Pretty much the same faces and functions; and same parent corp.

Back about that time, I also looked over the models for sale @ WM. Big Garmin and Raymarine seller due to higher margins, I was told.
Anyhow, the WM guy that was clerking knew nothing (!) about magnetism... and compass-safe distances, but he said he would bring this great new information to the attention of the store manager. Uh. Yeah.

A little lecture, if you will allow:
Unless you have a bone fide marine electronics business to shop at, you have to be your own 'expert'.
For those who shop based on price alone, I have found that our bricks-n-mortar electronic dealer will match or come within about 5 to 8% of the price from the Big Box Store staffed by the ignorant (but polite) sales droids.
When shopping locally, I find that it always pays to go in and talk to the people that will actually know what they are doing and can make any down-stream warranty adjustments right over the counter. Spend some time and build a little relationship. They may not be open on Sunday, they actually Know Stuff. :nerd:
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
In your original post you mention upgrading electronics. Are you intending on updating anything else other than the chart plotter? The reason I ask is the most of the modern electronics systems that utilize the NMEA 2000 communication protocol use the chart plotter (MFD) as the software update path for the various system components and you need an MFD of the same brand, or family of brands to update other system components.

For instance, if you have B&G Triton displays then you need a B&G (or Simrad or Lowrance) MFD to apply software updates to those displays. This is even more critical if you have a newer autopilot in your system as it may not work properly if the most recent update is not applied. Yes, you can get a tech to come to your boat and apply these updates, but that will add up over time.

I installed a B&G Triton W/S/D package along with a Raymarine Evo autopilot. I then bought a B&G Vulcan MFD because it was on sale and it seemed that it had better sailing features than the Raymarine MFDs. What I quickly found out was both B&G and Raymarine push out updates pretty often for their respective products. Some updates are to fix bugs, some are to add functionality. After installing everything, I quickly found out that my autopilot needed an update for it to work properly, but I was stuck because I didn't have a Raymarine MFD. If I had bought the Raymarine MFD instead of the B&G, I wouldn't be able to update my Tritons and have the latest and greatest features, but they would still work without the updates, unlike the AP.

So after searching around online for a good deal, I now also own a Raymarine MFD just so I can update the components in my system without calling a tech out to the boat. Not ideal, but now my autopilot works properly.

I guess the long point of the above, is be careful mixing and matching system components from various manufacturers and I would recommend matching the MFD to the autopilot at least. Another advantage of this arrangement is you can use the MFD as a control head for the AP. I can "see" the Ray AP through the Vulcan, but I cannot control it other than setting a "sail to waypoint" course. I need the AP control head for full control..

This is a great and timely thread as I'm looking to replace a lot of the old electronics and I really appreciate Slick470's reminder about the benefit of being mindful of how updates are loaded in the future.

fwiw, I've got and had a number of Garmin products which have convinced me that Garmin is not what I want on the boat in a primary role. I just do not like their user interfaces, subscriptions, and business practices. I've been watching B&G and Raymarine products, so also appreciate the amount of depth that fool went into.

To add something to the thread and for those not aware, most of the manufacturers have refurb outlets.

Raymarine: http://www.raymarine.com/store/refurbished/
Garmin: https://g.factoryoutletstore.com/cat/1639/Garmin-Marine.html
B&G sells to distributors such as: https://www.marinedeal.com/factory_refurbished_marine_electronics_s/24.htm

btw - A cellphone or second GPS placed within a couple of feet can throw off both a compass and a primary GPS. Not all will but I've sure seen this more than once.
 
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David Grimm

E38-200
Loren, You should have been an egineer for NASA! I made it out to WM and held my key ring in front of the diaplay units and yes the chip covers! That little magnet. I'm also not all that fond of the Garmin 942xs screen resolution or yellow halo around the border. I'll look into your suggestions. Glad I didn't finish that binacle box yet!
 

Mike_W.

Member I
A question on tablets. kiwisailor noted that they chose one with a gps. I have, still have, a Nexus that I love because it has a gps and does not require internet or cell signal. We have used it for navigating back roads on vacations abroad and as a back-up, additional unit aboard. It is old and slow. So am I - but it can be replaced. I have not been successful in identifying which tablets have a true built in gps that does not require an external signal. Any advice?
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Almost all at this point nearly all tablets and phones have a built in GPS, so it'd be easier to make a list of those which do not. Simply Google the model you are interested in and look in the list of specifications.
 
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