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E35-3 Anchor Locker Lid Repair

Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
One of the things I knew we had to tackle this winter was the anchor locker lid. During the purchase survey it was noted that it had significant water in the core, and this was after the boat had been on the hard and covered. After one season with the boat, it was now so wet we couldn't stand on it without feeling like we would fall through. I think it was telling that when in November we had below freezing temps for a week, the cover had actually gotten rigid again, I think because the core had froze (the surface was lumpy, and as you can see in one of the first pictures, I think it actually split the back joint of the cover). Through this split you could clearly see a very very soggy core, yes that is mold :esad:.

IMG_2138.jpg

I built a wood frame with several stations scribed from the deck and cover in place so the cover would maintain the correct curvature during repair once I tool the inner skin off.

IMG_2190.jpg

Then went about removing the bottom skin and core. I found the best method was to cut the skin with a angle grinder and a cutting wheel, later cutting it into 1" wide strips and then prying with the chisel. The corners I did with a Dremel equipped with a 561 multipurpose bit. So after much chiseling and cutting, I now have a bare single skin. Some things to note, maybe about 20% or so of the original core was dry, and came out hard, as can be seen where you see the white of fiberglass instead of the brown of wood in the final picture. Also, I had thought water was coming in from the hinge bolts, but now I can confirm they were never through anything but solid glass, the handle bolts however, clearly were through core, and I think this is where most of the water came from. It looks like it traveled across the back of the cover, and then wicked up the two sides and down the centerline of the cover. I think because it is on a incline from aft to fwd that is why the fwd end was in better condition. I don't know why, but Ericson brought the core very very close to everything.

IMG_2288.jpgIMG_2291.jpgIMG_2295.jpg

It should be noted I have ZERO experience with fiberglass, so this is my first foray into the repair world. I am sure I will get them here, but any tips or help is appreciated, otherwise I'm just kinda making it up as I go, and reading others posts like kiwisailor's.

How I am planning on doing things:
1. Prep the inside surface, just sand with 80 grit??
2. Maybe putting down a thin layer of pure resin to seal all of the loose fibers that I disturbed when removing the core, and maybe to give the panel some more rigidity? Do this with a new layer of fiberglass?? I'm still divided on this.
3. Put a new core in. Set core into a layer of slightly thickened epoxy.
4. I am planning on filling all the corners with epoxy and the edges around the core. Epoxy blended with 406? I also think I should fill where the handle is, as the original pocket that kind of contours around the handle meant that the nuts on the bolts were not on a smooth surface. This caused them to bend when tightened. I think it would be better to give them a flat surface to bear on. Do this first then lay the bottom skin on at the end? I'm also of mind to make the hinge areas thicker, but I have to check clearance to the anchor locker flange.
5. Put a new skin on bottom.
6. Paint (not sure what product I will use yet).

Thanks for any and all input!
 

Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
Filler?

Also wondering if anyone else has run into this kind of filler like material. It is brittle, and cuts into a brown / reddish powder. Is this what Ericson originally used as filler, or is this a previous owner doing some kind of repair work?? It was around the whole bottom of the cover, and crudely filled a large area by the hole for the anchor chain.

IMG_2136.jpg
 

JSM

Member III
You're on the right track. I re-cored my anchor lid two years also with minimal fiberglass experience. Don't worry about keeping the shape of the shell it will keep its shape just fine. Get all of the old core out and sand the remaining crud out with some 80 grit. Glue in new coring leaving room around around anyplace where water may penetrate via hardware as well as the edges and then fill those areas with thickned epoxy. While everything is still wet cover the coring with a layer or two of cloth. If you want to make it super strong you can go with 1708 cloth. Once everything sets up you can drill new holes for the hinge hardware (thru solid epoxy) and remount the lid.
Here's a link to a blog post on the subject.


The reddish/brown filler is probably good ole Bondo.
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
You make a good point about water intrusion through the molded pin system.

The exit of the pin from the lid admits water into the core. The lid should be solid in that area, but it probably isn't.

The hole that receives the pin (under the yellow jackline) similarly provides direct passage of water into the core of the deck.

Good idea to fix this before the lid/deck is damaged: just fill both openings with thickened epoxy and re-drill.

anchor locker .jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
You make a good point about water intrusion through the molded pin system.

The exit of the pin from the lid admits water into the core. The lid should be solid in that area, but it probably isn't.

The hole that receives the pin (under the yellow jackline) similarly provides direct passage of water into the core of the deck.

Good idea to fix this before the lid/deck is damaged: just fill both openings with thickened epoxy and re-drill.

View attachment 26449

Excellent Suggestions!
Soon after we brought our boat home I pulled the anchor locker lid off. I did fill in the area under part of the sliding pin with thickened epoxy. I also over drilled the little deck-side area the pin went into and then wrapped the pin end in cling wrap and stuck it into some thickened epoxy I had inserted into the hole first.
That sealed it for good. While the lid is off, drill out and epoxy-fill the hinge screw holes on both sides as well.
 

kiwisailor

Member III
Blogs Author
Anchor lid repair

My blog on my anchor lid repair.


 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Loren, I think I got that idea from you. Reading and rereading these threads back to the early 2000s is a continual education, reminder and instruction in the particulars of our boats. There seems to be no end of new information or recognition of jobs to do, or credit to those who came before.
 

Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
Don't worry about keeping the shape of the shell it will keep its shape just fine.

Actually because of (I think) the back of the lid being in such bad shape coring wise, a crack happened on the back flange (before I started work). This allows the lid to fully relax to a flat surface.

156925A6-A76F-4589-95E7-B0717E0EF64F.jpg

I only had a and a picture because my Dad and I had a bet, he thought it would keep its shape as well :egrin:
 

Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
My blog on my anchor lid repair.



Both of your blog posts were incredibly helpful to me getting started on this. So thank you. One question, how did you recreate the non skid when you moved the chain hole?
 
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Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
You make a good point about water intrusion through the molded pin system.

The exit of the pin from the lid admits water into the core. The lid should be solid in that area, but it probably isn't.

The hole that receives the pin (under the yellow jackline) similarly provides direct passage of water into the core of the deck.

Good idea to fix this before the lid/deck is damaged: just fill both openings with thickened epoxy and re-drill.

View attachment 26449

I will have to double check the through hole in the lid and see if there is coring there, if so I will remove it. It is on my spring repair list to fill the hole the pin goes into on the boat proper with epoxy because we had increased readings of moisture there too so I am sure it is just straight into the core..
 

Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
Re-looking at my lid the handle doesn’t go through a hole on the lid, so that isn’t a worry.

Kiwi-

Did you put any kind of bevel on your balsa? How did you get the glass to wrap over the coring? Did you put an amount of thickened epoxy down first to make a fillet to the balsa before laying the glass?
 

kiwisailor

Member III
Blogs Author
Re-looking at my lid the handle doesn’t go through a hole on the lid, so that isn’t a worry.

Kiwi-

Did you put any kind of bevel on your balsa? How did you get the glass to wrap over the coring? Did you put an amount of thickened epoxy down first to make a fillet to the balsa before laying the glass?

I left a small gap around the edge of the balsa core where it meets the lid lip and then worked the glass mat into the gap, not sure if I thickened it as the gap wasn't that large.

I first put thickened epoxy inside the upside down lid then immediately installed the balsa core, the balsa comes with one side full of slits so the balsa easily curves to the lid shape and the thickened epoxy fills the balsa slit gaps. Once that has set I wet down the balsa with used normal epoxy and then laid cloth down and worked in the epoxy into the cloth and as I said the cloth extended into the gap around the edge of the lid.

Hope that helps!
 

Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
Well, went for broke this weekend and fully launched into hatch repair time. My plan, (which was thrown out the window pretty fast) was to wet down a few layers of glass, one by where the hatch had split, and one by the chain hole where the glass was thin and I had gotten to gel coat during removal, then put a whole layer of glass down as a belt and suspenders type thing, followed by the balsa then fill the handle area with thickened epoxy to get it to the level of the surrounding balsa, and then apply two layers of 6oz glass over the whole thing, work it into a 5/8 gap I had left all around, and finally fill the channel around the edge with thickened epoxy.

A few things that were already against me:

1. My basement was at a balmy 56 degrees
2. I have never done anything like this.

I first leveled the hatch, both port starboard, and fore/aft, so I wouldn't have to worry too much about resin running around. I used a bunch of shims normally used for doors and windows and stapled them to my earlier work. Later I learned this was probably not a big deal, though I did need to do it to make sure my "mock" was ok, since I think I need to work on my jigsaw skills. Three levels were used because, well if you have a best 2 out of 3 scenario that must be best right? And the 2' level would not span the hatch in all locations, but I was pretty sure the 4' one was a little wonky from being dropped too much during other projects, and to confirm my memory the smallest one agreed with the 2'. So now we know...anyway.

IMG_2450.jpgIMG_2453.jpg

So after reading a bunch of west systems materials, I understood that I was working at the recommended edge of 60 degrees, though I was using the fast hardener, which supposedly could go down to 35 degrees. According to West system, I should use a water bath or heat box to keep the epoxy warm, so I took the lid off a cooler and put the two cans in a water bath I kept refreshing from the tea kettle, pouring out about 50% of the water each time and refilling with kettle water. This did keep the resin easy to pump, but once it was mixed and on the part, it seemed to quickly get gel like, even though I should still been well within the open working time.

So I mixed up some thickened epoxy, and filled the screw holes (I had backed them on the finished side with tape) and the center of the handle (to make it so I didn't have to follow the curve so much). Then I did the two little glass areas, and waited, as according to west systems, this should then cure to a consistency of rubber, but still let me lay additional layers without needing to clean off amine blush and sand.

IMG_2457.jpg

Then I waited, and waited, and......waited, and two hours later realized that at the low temp of my basement this probably was going to take many hours to cure to that level. Now I had an issue because I was thinking I would only have to wait an hour or less between, but that was obviously not going to happen. So I laid the next layer down, and then considered my options.

IMG_2458.jpg

Bag in the middle is a weight which kept the hatch to the profile of the mock, as on its own it wanted to spring.
 
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Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
So at this point I realized that I was going to basically have to wet lay up the entire cover in one go, so I mixed up some regular epoxy and painted the bottom of the balsa so it wouldn't starve for resin, then mixed up a large batch of thickened epoxy, and set each section of balsa into it. If I was to go back and tell myself some advice, it would have probably have been to cut the balsa into smaller sections so I could work on smaller areas at a time, and also it allows you to "wiggle" the balsa down into the thickened epoxy. In addition the cover's curvature is probably small enough that I could have used unthickened epoxy, as at the temperatures I was working, as soon as I poured the thickened epoxy out of the cup, the lack of heat immediately turned it into more of a gel and it was hard to press the balsa into it. Oh well. The balsa went down, then two layers of 6oz cloth. Because I couldn't fill the handle area with thickened epoxy like I was hoping to, I had to fit the cloth around the handle. This was fiddly and hard, and I know I ended up with some trapped air in it. Part of the issue is I now had three layers of cloth over the area, and none of them was cured, so they would all kind of walk and slide by each other. It was less than ideal. Finally I poured the thickened epoxy around the edge and in the handle area. This was to fill the gap around the edges with something structural, as well as to give the nuts for the handle and hinge hardware a nice level surface.

At this point I had been working on it for about 6 hours, and the light at the end of the tunnel made me a little too hasty. I decided not to squeegee the extra resin off the top of the last layer of cloth, as I thought it would self level and give me a nice paint surface. But I still had to weight the cover in order for it to keep the correct curve, so taking a page from kiwisailor, I put down plastic, then cardboard, then lots of heavy things.

IMG_2459.jpgIMG_2460.jpg

Taking that off today, I realized my mistake immediately. I had left too much resin, and the pressure was not totally even, so the resin ran and filled the plastic contours. This means now I will have to sand the whole surface to get rid of the contours (and lots of trapped air areas) before painting...oh well.

IMG_2461.jpgIMG_2463.jpgIMG_2462.jpg

I will also still have to do a ton of gel coat work, as the cover is full of cracks since it was flexing so bad due to the core issues.
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
Aside from all the frustrations of doing a large-ish project like this, you probably also feel you are single-handedly keeping Gougeon Brothers (West System) in business. Keep at it - it's looking good!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Doing the best you can

Not sure how relevant this is, but I have used a "poor man's method" for laminating and getting the excess resin out of multiple layers, where I place a sheet of plastic on top, and then a 1" piece of upholstery foam on that, and then a piece of plywood on that, and then lots of misc. weights.
For small projects, I have placed a piece of foam and a matching 1/4" piece of plywood into a large plastic zip-lok bag, and place that on the layup I need to get the excess resin out of.
Nowhere near as good vacuum bagging, but as my father used to say (having survived thru the Great Depression), "poor folk have poor ways" !
:rolleyes:
 

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
I wonder...

I wonder what it would cost to take the anchor locker lid to a surf/sail/kite board maker and say “dude , can you make me one of these?” You might even get it with a real nice unique paint job.
 
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Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
Aside from all the frustrations of doing a large-ish project like this, you probably also feel you are single-handedly keeping Gougeon Brothers (West System) in business. Keep at it - it's looking good!

It is amazing on how expensive it ends up, though I am sure I would be shocked at the price to have this done professionally. It is satisfying having done it myself as well.
 
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