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[E32-3] Sealed Ignition Switch for Engine Panel

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Hi folks, my ignition switch is getting mushy and loose in the engine panel, and it's starting to become a concern. Who knows when it'll just fail completely.

Anyone know what size/model of sealed ignition switch would be a relatively easy drop-in replacement for the stock one on the Universal M25 engine panel? I have the same kind as in Christian's blog below:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...5-Engine-Wiring-Upgrade-Part-1-Cockpit-Gauges

Looking at his setup, he doesn't even have the key switch. I know lots of people who are pretty easygoing about leaving their key in the switch, or otherwise not securing the ignition, but I'm a little paranoid for that :)
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Our '88 boat came with a push-pull Cole-Hersey (sp) on/off switch where the former Universal panel switch once lived. I assumed that the salt air/spray (SF Bay) and some neglect by the prior owner led to the early demise of that switch.
Given that most boats are extremely easy to break into or steal or whatever, I decided to just live with that set up from 1994 to 2018, when we changed out the whole panel as part of the upgrade to a new Betamarine diesel.
Now i have been re-training myself to get the engine panel key out and use it to start the boat! :)

This might kind of depend on the general "security" of your marina, also.
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Looks like exactly the thing, GrandpaSteve. I see there's a new rubber boot nut there in related products as well so I can replace that as well. Thanks for sharing!
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
I got tired of replacing keyed switches, so went with the toggle & push-button arrangement. It's located inside the companionway, so one can secure it by locking the hatch. Even if you have the switch in the cockpit, you can just turn off the battery switch down below before leaving the boat. And/or the fuel valve.
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
Push/Pull

Awhile back after experience constant starting problems on our 32-3 I narrowed the problem down to the key switch so it had to be replaced. After seeing the Christian Williams posting about replacing the key switch to a push/pull (on/off) starter switch I did the same for a couple of reasons. First, because the key switch was located close to the deck and in an area where there is lots of foot traffic I was afraid the the key could get broken off or bent (And I did bend it once). Second, it's a relatively unprotected area from rain and any large amount of water (snow) coming into the cockpit which I'm sure isn't good for an open key hole. Third, I'd never have to look for or loose the key again.

As for security, even a key switch won't stop someone from "hot wiring" the switch to start the engine and they still need to get into the boat to open the sea cock. The pervious owner (PO) of my boat has a second battery Switch to start the engine with just the starter battery, or just hose battery 1, house battery 2 or all three. Then there is a selection for no battery (no power). When I leave the boat I turn the battery selector to "no battery" and I also, by the way, turn the selector to isolate the starter battery while at anchor so I'll have a good battery when it's time to pull up the anchor. So far the arrangement, using the push/pull switch has worked out great.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
High Security

One more security "feature:" The choke cable (A4) wasn't quite long enough to route to the new panel location, so it's mounted on the bulkhead below, hidden in a crevice of the galley. Nobody will ever find it but me :rolleyes:
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
My previous owner had a hidden "kill switch" at the nav station to outwit anybody trying to steal his 16,000-pound 6-knot sailboat and then hide it under a haystack.

Mostly what he did was to make the current owner, me, and the broker, spend an hour trying to figure out why the devil the engine wouldn't start.
 

sgwright67

Member III
One more security "feature:" The choke cable (A4) wasn't quite long enough to route to the new panel location, so it's mounted on the bulkhead below, hidden in a crevice of the galley. Nobody will ever find it but me :rolleyes:

Sounds like my van... I installed a diesel engine, but the cold start cable wouldn't reach the dash, so it's hidden beside the seat. I also changed to a 5 speed transmission, but left the 4 speed shift knob. The shift pattern is very different, so even if you get the engine started, shifting will be a challenge... :)

One thing I am surprised more boats don't have it a remote start in the engine compartment - handy for maintenance, etc. Or perhaps they're just well hidden... :)
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Reminds me of a day back in the 90’s... sort of a guerilla Discovery Channel production that roamed all over Washington State for a couple of days. We spent a day filming, then I was bundled into a van to do voice-overs on the drive between locations, while a production assistant was supposed to wash my truck and drive it back to town. Only... he never showed up. Hours went by. I actually had a cell phone at the time - installed in the truck.(Remember those?)But there weren’t very many cell towers around yet. We kept calling it, and FINALLY he picked up. Still sitting up a dirt track ‘way up in the Grand Coulee. He couldn’t figure out that he had to push the clutch pedal in to start it. :rolleyes:
 

sharonov

Member II
......Anyone know what size/model of sealed ignition switch would be a relatively easy drop-in replacement for the stock one on the Universal M25 engine panel? I have the same kind as in Christian's blog....
In the last three years I went through two Cole Hersee push-pull switches. Did a postmortem on the first one - it was full of crud and corrosion and did not seem exactly waterproof. In my opinion its current rating (10A) is too low for this application and waterprofing is not good enough. The fact that it is hot/wet Houston and there is no additional clear shield to protect the panel as you may see on some boats may have contributed to the problem. A couple months ago I replaced second Cole Hersee with toggle switch from West Marine. As far as I recall it was rated for 25A and claimed to be sealed. So far so good.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
My previous owner had a hidden "kill switch" at the nav station to outwit anybody trying to steal his 16,000-pound 6-knot sailboat and then hide it under a haystack.

Mostly what he did was to make the current owner, me, and the broker, spend an hour trying to figure out why the devil the engine wouldn't start.

(laughing)

I put a toggle switch in the engine compartment so that I could cycle the electric fuel pump for bleeding without bizarre contortions involving toes on the battery selector.

It (theoretically) also serves as a security measure, as it would allow me to make the fuel pump inoperable when I leave the boat, if I want.

I'll have to leave a note for whoever the next owner is... someday... in the very distant future.

Bruce
 

sharonov

Member II
In the last three years I went through two Cole Hersee push-pull switches. Did a postmortem on the first one - it was full of crud and corrosion and did not seem exactly waterproof.
Here is a pic:
failed_switch_20181209_135202_compressed.jpg

...A couple months ago I replaced second Cole Hersee with toggle switch from West Marine. As far as I recall it was rated for 25A and claimed to be sealed...
I think it is easy to guess which one is sealed:
WM_switch20181013_153850_compressed.jpg
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Another thing with those Cole-Hersee switches is that you have to order waterproof boots separately. There is more than one size, and it's not always clear from on-line listings which boot fits which switch.
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
That area in my boat gets buried in snow and the panel is begging to be rebuilt, even though things do still work. I agree that you can just turn off the battery switch in the cabin and lock the companionway for security, so don't need a fragile ignition key, especially where bare toes could kick it. Tractors and construction equipment use IP67 waterproof switches, so I'll probably source something intended for one of those. You can find all sorts of sealed rotary and rocker switches by Googling
IP67 rotary onoff switch

baureihe_DS.jpg
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Just make sure it can handle the current. AFAIR this switch sees 20-25A during glow phase, mostly from glow plugs.

The ON-OFF switch sees 30A? While those are available, I'd expect that only the glow plug switch in the lower left corner of the panel would see glow plug current.

[Christian Williams panel used for illustration]
attachment.php
 

sharonov

Member II
The ON-OFF switch sees 30A? While those are available, I'd expect that only the glow plug switch in the lower left corner of the panel would see glow plug current.
Please see https://www.westerbeke.com/operator's manual/200157_m12-m50_operator_man.pdf, diagram on page 13. Key switch kills the whole panel and I think that is a good thing. If you want to reduce total current going through the switch and the panel you may add a relay for the glow plugs but IMHO this is not strictly necessary since my boat did just fine without it for 32 years.
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Please see https://www.westerbeke.com/operator's manual/200157_m12-m50_operator_man.pdf, diagram on page 13. Key switch kills the whole panel and I think that is a good thing. If you want to reduce total current going through the switch and the panel you may add a relay for the glow plugs but IMHO this is not strictly necessary since my boat did just fine without it for 32 years.

The full current does go through the key switch on universal engines. They typically use Cole Hersee M-489 10 amp switches. They last for many years because they are not switching the glow plug current which is a temporary load. Switching current is what hurts switches, assuming the run current and short term current are not unreasonable.
 
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