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Engine freezing??

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Many of us in the Pacific Northwest are in a bit of a deep freeze while our boats are still in the water. Can't believe I was sailing two weeks ago, and now she's covered with snow!
As I sail year round, I don't winterize the engine and plumbing. Air temperatures are dropping to minus 6 at night. The water temp is about 6 degrees celsius, 43 degrees Fahrenheit, which warms the hull somewhat. I have two of those caframo stor dry silver fans for ventilation and they put off some warmth, and I have a small ceramic heater with a thermostat to add some heat from time to time.
My question: I know that salt water has a lower freeze temp than fresh water, about - 2 degrees. At colder temps the raw water in the engine will begin to freeze, but at what temps does the engine freeze so solid that it risks cracking the block or causing similar serious damage?
Thanks, Frank
 
It's the water lines, hot water heater and engine heat exchanger that could freeze first.
We have those problems in North Carolina.

On Sketcher, we always drain the hot water heater and lines. Run antifreeze through the engine heat exchanger.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
I wonder just how cold the engine spaces of a boat that is floating in PNW sea water can get? Uncomfortable, but perhaps not damaging cold. Maybe cockpit drains, fully above the waterline, are the most vulnerable to freezing.

I think that damage potential is a matter of both time and temperature. In the engine room, probably heat exchangers are the most vulnerable, followed by exhaust systems, pumps, and the block. Assumptions and an experience or two. I start worrying about systems around the farm getting damaged when overnight temps start dipping below about 20F. (-7 C)

Since I also sail in the winter (usually) I might need to "winterize" several times. I have an inexpensive Tee fitting (barb/barb/garden hose w/ cap) near the intake through hull. A 4-foot garden hose is stored beneath it in the bilge. It is very easy to unscrew the cap on the Tee, attach the hose, and push the starter button to suck up a gallon or so of antifreeze mix into the engine and all attached systems. Takes less than 5 minutes, including mixing the solution. When freezing temperatures are expected, I leave a small oil-filled heater running in the cabin.

Fitting looks like this: https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/DIG-Drip-Irrigation-Barb-Fittings-p/15-034.htm But that's the $1 solution. You could get fancy and put in a valve with permanent hose so it might double as a backup bilge pump.

That said, a few years ago, I was out of the country when an unexpected deep-freeze occurred, and was unable to prepare in any way. The boat sat at around 10 - 15 °F for a week before I returned and nothing bad happened.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks for your reply. Most of the water lines are low down on the hull, so I think they would be somewhat protected by warmth coming thru the hull from the water which is currently about 6 degrees Celsius. The heat exchanger and water heater would be more vulnerable to cold temp coming down from the cockpit fibreglass. But at what temps would they really be at risk of freezing so solid that they might crack or cause similar problems?
Frank
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks for your reply, Toddster. That's reassuring. I sail a few times per week in the winter, so winterizing isn't very practical, and we don't usually get this cold in Nanaimo, BC.
We were away for two weeks of babysitting, but will be home again tonight, so I'll check on our boat soon. Hopefully she'll be fine.
And maybe I can even go sailing next week. ☺️
Frank
 

JPS27

Member III
I have worried less and less about that cold in Virginia (hampton roads area). Have had some good cold snaps over the several years I've owned my boat. And no worries. I do put antifreeze in through the strainer in late december through january just in case. I have had ice all around the boat, but it never stays cold long enough to do damage. I do keep a west marine heater that pops on at 38 degrees though, and I leave the engine cover off and lockers open.
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
I got one of those $10 thermometer / moisture readers and it will tell me the historic high/low for both temperature and humidity % inside the boat for the last 24 hours. With the little Caframo space heater, the boat hasn't gotten below 40 with the heater at the lowest setting.

I was still paranoid, so I also got a Goldenrod brand dehumidifier - it's just a tube of aluminum that heats up ever so slightly to keep the air around it heated. It sits in the engine compartment next to the heat exchanger / intake hoses, behind the engine. I am now not as paranoid. Or maybe just as paranoid, but not as anxious.

41tKmQSEiBL.jpg
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi Geoff, thanks for your reply. Do you know how much actual heat those rods produce? I would guess maybe a couple of degrees warmer in the boat with them, but I'm not sure.
Frank
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
The 3' long one is supposed to be able to "protect" up to 600 cubic feet. It gets warm, bordering on hot, but not so hot I can't hold it in my bare hand. A cursory search tells me up to 150F. I don't think it could do my whole boat, but I think it's perfect for the engine compartment.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I put a small DeLonghi (sp?) ceramic heater on Makana. Cost about $50, IIRC, from Home Depot. I have it on the countertop in the galley and plugged into the AC outlet.

I selected the one I bought because it has a "freeze-guard" setting, basically it comes on anytime the ambient temp is below 45F, and automagically pivots back and forth to spread warm air around the space until the temp is above 45F. It has proven to work very well.... every time I've checked on the boat, the interior temp has been 45F. I have an infrared thermometer (okay, okay, I like gadgets) and out of curiosity checked the surface temps of the engine block, the heat exchanger, etc.... all were right at 45F. So the thing appears to do a pretty good job. At least while the AC on the dock keeps working.

I've noticed that even when the surface of the water in the marina is a (thin) sheet of ice, the temp below the waterline remains well above freezing. Since my water tanks, water-lines and bilge water are all, well, below the waterline, their temp seems to be modulated by the surrounding water temp and stay above freezing. At least so far.

DCH5090ER.jpg

Bruce
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
With the forecast looking very cold at the end of last week, I put about 3 quarts of pink "rv" antifreeze into the raw water system of our engine. Shut it down when some pink water showed up in the exhaust.
Whole chore takes about 15 minutes, and most of the time is waiting for the engine to warm up a bit, first.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?140-Coupler-Shaft-Seal-and-Antifreeze

I probably did not really need to do this, but the river temp. is now 39 degrees, and I do not want to risk any part of our new diesel engine.
 
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supersailor

Contributing Partner
Just a quick little reminder for those of us who use a portable electric heater to keep the cabin above freezing. Be sure that the heater turns back on automatically after a power outage. There are a lot of them that have to be manually restarted because they forget their settings. Simpler is better!
 

oldfauser

Member III
we used to keep our car batteries warm at night is sub-zero weather with a "trouble" light with a 60 watt light bulb (not a CFL or LED!). Amazing how warm they get and the always come on after a power outage! Just be sure that is not touching anything flammable... put one in the engine compartment, it will keep things warm.
 

Jenkins

Member II
A note of caution. A fellow in my area had a boat on the hard and he put a space heater in it as he had not winterized the engine.

This caused a fire which led to him losing that boat, the adjacent barn and another boat that was by the barn.

Heaters draw a lot of current and you need to be 100% sure that all power cables are in good condition...

Peter
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Another caution

I used to (keywords USED TO) run TWO cheap little space heaters during winter in the water. This can be a 25 amp draw which can stress your old shore power cable, plug and boat AC wiring if they are not in top shape. Every winter in Annapolis we have at least one electrical related boat fire.

I added the orange Smart Plug and Cable which has thermal protection after this:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?14163-Shore-power&p=99886#post99886

I also stopped using the cheap ($15) Walmart space heaters. The risk of a failure just didn't seem worth the savings. I now use a quality, name brand oil filled radiator type heater on the 600 watt setting just to keep the bilge water from freezing so my bilge pumps can function. I should add that I fully winterize everything in the boat except bilge pumps in case of a long power failure.

Another safety tip, particularly for those of you in the water. The space heater should have some form of tip-over protection. My newer fan heater that I only use when I'm on the boat, has tip-over protection built-in. The older heaters I started with did not have tip over protection. I added a large, heavy starboard base to make them super stable. The oil filled radiator is tall and tippy. I hold it upright against the mast with a coat hanger.

Mark
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
That 60 amp light can be dangerous if it is on a clamp on base. I had one fall in my SJ26 and it burned through a cushion. Didn't catch fire, though, thank goodness. I haven't used one since.

On a slightly different note, some portable heaters have the reputation of catching fire. My Niece lost a house because a portable heater caught fire. So besides looking at the electrical system (suspect in many cases) look at the heater itself.
This is a catch 22. Don't heat and suffer ice damage including possible sinking. Heat and face the possible risk of a fire. It pays to check the boat frequently and don't use a heater if your supply including the electrical cord look questionable. The heaters draw a lot of amps.
 
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frick

Member III
A Long Island Heater

For the Fisherman who like to go out all winter if the ice does not lock them in...

They place an electric blanket over their engine.

Me? I just come pick stuff through the engine heat exchanger... It fast cheap and safe.
As to the Fresh water system. I drain it... Fill the line with pick stuff and forget about it till spring.

Rick+
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
The electric blanket sounds interesting. I haven't heard of too many people burning up in bed lately. It doesn't protect the water system or bilge, though.
 
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