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35-2 Lifelines

Farlander

Member II
Hi All,

The boat is on the hard for maintenance. I'm having the yard do the lifelines - the existing lifelines are coated and run outside the shrouds. The uncoated cables will be rubbing against shrouds if they follow the same route. Should the lifelines be rerouted inside the shrouds?

Thanks in advance,
 

sailorman

Member II
I run my lifelines between the upper and lower shrouds. I have coated wire and use riggers tape in that area to protect against chaff.









35-2 1974 hull 330 "Broke but Afloat"
Atomic 4 ,Port Clinton,Ohio
 

garryh

Member III
I think going with uncoated wire is a good idea... all the new boats are going that way it seems. It does not answer your question but there have been previous threads about the 'missing stanchion' on the 35'2's... it seems very strange that there is no stanchion at the shroud to secure the lifeline away to prevent rubbing. I will be adding a stanchion there this Spring (running the lifeline outside). As I recall from the thread, some owners reported actually having one there, but did not know whether factory or retro.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Uncoated is now required by many offshore races. The old vinyl coating hid rust and made inspection impossible.
 

Parrothead

Member III
. . . . . It does not answer your question but there have been previous threads about the 'missing stanchion' on the 35'2's... it seems very strange that there is no stanchion at the shroud to secure the lifeline away to prevent rubbing. I will be adding a stanchion there this Spring (running the lifeline outside). As I recall from the thread, some owners reported actually having one there, but did not know whether factory or retro.
Back in the 1970's many if not most production sailboats were built with sharp attention to racing rules such as PHRF and IOR. Stanchion spacing was specifically addressed in at least the IOR and included that a stanchion was not required at the shrouds. Whether it should have been required or not, back then not required = not installed by some builders.
 
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garryh

Member III
"Also, take a look at the pulpit and pushpit connection. My lifelines connect to nice shiny 30-year-old wire loops welded to the tubing. I conclude that this is crazy, as the entire integrity depends on those little welds. It's easy to run a few turns of Dyneema around the tubing itself, as a backup."
This by Christian from another similar thread... I had previously not thought about it and this seems like a good idea.
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
If you replace your coated lifelines with uncoated wire (instead of the same coated wire), get one size larger in wire - especially for the upper wire.
This is not to provide more strength, but rather to make it easier/safer on your hand when you grab it firmly for support.

I am in the middle of replacing all my lifelines with dyneema. I know it won't last as long as wire, but the materials are a lot cheaper, I can do it all myself, and I can replace it myself when it wears out.
The key cost-saving trick was to insert 3mm dyneema inside a core of the same 3mm line (using a very long home-made fid), to achieve at least the same strength as 6mm dyneema, which is recommended: 3mm cost 79c/ft and 6mm was 2.79/ft at WM !! I'm using 6mm aft of the gates as those are short lengths, and the 3-inside-3 trick would be too fiddly for so many short lengths.
 

mfield

Member III
The key cost-saving trick

Why not use 6mm HTS-75 at $1.29 a foot. It is a little more stretchy but since you will probably be lashing you can take that up after a while. Using 3mm inside 3mm will make the splices on the ends much more of a pain.

I notice that Coligo suggests using a whoopie sling for tightening which is intriguing but I am not sure I like.

Sadly regs seem to have changed and uncoated wire is now required offshore. I'm sure dyneema was legal for at some point.

I am interested why regulations insist on having the lifelines really taught, I would have thought that a little spring would be a better buffer for the load. I know that a stanchion will bend or break with only a few hundred pounds of load.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One small point about sizing the OD on the lifeline cable is that for quite awhile the vinyl coating has been a lot thinner than the covering product in the 70's and 80's. You will find that there is (IMHO) little to gain by up-sizing the wire OD.
 

Parrothead

Member III
For cost comparison, a year ago I replaced my lifelines with bare 316 SS, 3/16" diameter, all fittings, turnbuckles, pelican hooks and gate eyes, double lifelines with a gate on each side for under $500.00. I made them myself using fittings made to be swaged with a common Nicopress hand tool (I bought mine years ago at Home Depot). I even had over 120 feet of wire left over due to minimum spool length.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Here are some comparison prices (LA, 2017)

Strong track system 43.1ft @28.50 $1228.35

Life lines $800.00

Lazy Jacks Installed $400.00

Main Halyard w/shackle $421.19

Port upper Shroud $318.34

Labor:
Install Halyard, Strong track Life Lines and upper Shroud.
5 Hrs @$85.00 per/hr

Rig Clean and Splice $0
 

fool

Member III
Practical Sailor sayz:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/is...st-evaluates-synthetic-lifelines_10875-1.html

This article is from 2012 and the off-shore rules have changed for racing boats. There is a note at the bottom regarding inshore racing and cats that needs confirmation.

I used CS Johnson fittings for the upper line when they were on sale at Defender. A number of suppliers carry the CS Johnson fixtures:

http://www.csjohnson.com/news/splice_line_fittings.php

These fittings aren't required and I didn't use them on the lower line preferring to experiment with lashings. The lashings worked so well I sort of wish I hadn't spent on special fittings, but fittings work great, especially around the gates. I lashed through the tiny welded D's and around the tubing on the pushpit and pulpit. The Johnson fittings terminated at the tiny welded D's.

Here is a terrific resource and very informative including photos from US Sailing in 2014 (again note the change from current rules).

https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Dyneema-Spectra-Lifeline-Revision-Jan-2014.pdf

One very worthy side note is to "sew" Bremmel and deep bury splices. Sewing the splice doesn't add to the structural integrity, but does keep twitchy fingers from "worrying" the splice loose.

Believe any instructions that say you want to taper and "bury" 72 times the diameter of the line. A 6 mm bury would be roughly 17". The bury is a bit like those rattan finger puzzles that tighten as you try to pull you fingers out.

https://www.animatedknots.com/brummel/

The eyes of the splices were supported by thimbles. This increases strength by increasing the diameter of the loop in the eye.

https://usrigging.com/wire-rope-fittings-tools/thimbles/

Worthy of note is to paint lashings with vinyl tool coating or acrylic paint, not only does it prevent worrying, but it looks really nautical and is quite satisfying.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly is to not, do not, tie knots in Dyneema. Knots weaken line significantly (as much as 50%) as opposed to lashings with multiple turns, and the slickness of the material will eventually untie under load.

I'm not racing, like the clean look, and low maintenance, and will replace the line about every 5 years or so, give or take. No regrets what so ever for going this route.

Cheers,

Max
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
It occurs to me that if one is replacing standing rigging, an awfully big pile of appropriate uncoated wire may ensue.
 

Glenn McCarthy

Glenn McCarthy
Last year on our 35-2 we added stanchions at the shrouds tilted out 10-degrees (and tilted the ones in between the shrouds and forward pulpit 10-degrees as well). It's easier to hang fenders, it looks nicer, looks normal and meets the race requirements of stanchion spacing. And we use uncoated wire per racing requirements. Boat looks sharp this way and a little more space on the foredeck to get around.
 

Farlander

Member II
Update

Update, so I had the new stainless cable lifelines installed and routed outboard of the double shrouds. Preliminary results suggest this was a bad idea. The pressure on the outer shroud from the lifeline causes significantly more dinning slap noise between the upper and lower shrouds in the wind than before. I'll likely re route the lifelines between the shrouds, though ideally there would be a stanchion added in that area. So far a plastic sleeve and some tape are keeping the chafe to a minimum but it is seriously agitating that a $700 lifeline job may end up costing me two new outer shrouds due to some chafe from a bad design.

Better solutions welcome...
 
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