• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Unusual rig dimensions

Mike_W.

Member I
We have found our Ericson! We are new owners of a 1987 E-38, but she seems a little bit different. According to what we measure, and on her old phrf documents, she has an extra foot for both “P” and “E” dimensions. Rod rigging w/ running backstays, and she doesn’t have any lower shrouds, just the cap shrouds. As far as I can tell there never were any as the deck does not look patched where they normally would be. The keel is wing but draft is 5’ 8”. So – is this likely a “factory custom build?” Did Ericson do many custom builds?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
By the late 80's they were offering optional wing and shoal fins. Winch number, size, and placement would vary on boats to please the purchaser.
Some E-38's had a Yanmar instead of the ubiquitous Universal, even.
You rig sounds unusual to me. It would be helpful to have it evaluated by a rigger, as in surveyed.
Did your purchase survey cover this?
Does your boat have the mid engine with the larger galley cabinet? Or, engine under the companionway?

If you have some photos of the shroud bases, please do post them up.

And.... Welcome to the EY site!
:egrin:
 

Roger

Member II
I recall a 38 built at about that time with a custom rig, which included discontinous rod rigging. Perhaps that's the boat.
 

Mike_W.

Member I
Universal, under the companionway. I don't think we have pictures of the side deck and now it is under the winter cover and it's pretty darn cold out there. We did not get a survey done. We do have one from the PO from about 5-years back. She has been on the hard since then. The price point was in the buy-it-now-or-the-next-guy-will range so we took the risk. Still trying to figure out what we bought. There are no drawers or doors in the forward cabin, maybe never were. Cabinetry is there, just missing drawers. The main sheet traveler is right in front of the helm. It looks like it was previously on the bridge deck but does not look like it was ever on the cabin top. It is the deeper wing keel that has me most surprised. Where did that come from? It is listed as about 950# over standard weight.

Yes - discontinuous rod rigging is the right description. hull #240.

Mike
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
...doesn’t have any lower shrouds, just the cap shrouds...

This part, in particular, seems very odd. So, only one shroud, goes from deck to masthead on each side?

No intermediates? No lowers? In other words, no support for the middle spans of the mast at all? That's very unusual for a ~50-foot rig.

There "should" be two sets of spreaders, with intermediate shrouds terminating just below the upper set, and lower shrouds terminating just below the lower set...

Bruce
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Here are the stays for the stock E38 rig in 1984.

They go through the deck to be secured by big stainless plates on cabin bulkheads.

1-fuel jugs original.jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I am probably misunderstanding the question (not the first time...) but I was picturing a rig like the one on the Olson 34. Double spreaders with in-line single lowers. We do have stock runners that we use to control movement forward on the upper part of the spar, but these are only rigged when in the ocean.

I have the standard Kenyon spar system, if that makes any difference.
 
Last edited:

Mike_W.

Member I
My mistake, but Loren figured it out - in-line single lowers. Except we have triple spreaders. Here are the best photos I have, taken before the rig came down for trucking back to Michigan.
IMG_1463.jpg IMG_1446.jpg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1445-10.jpg
    IMG_1445-10.jpg
    92.6 KB · Views: 33
  • IMG_1445.jpg
    IMG_1445.jpg
    92.8 KB · Views: 29

Mike_W.

Member I
And her keel with draft of 5'8"
IMG_1434.jpg

We found her on Maryland's East shore and had her trucked in to her new home on Lake St. Clair.
 

Roger

Member II
Universal, under the companionway. I don't think we have pictures of the side deck and now it is under the winter cover and it's pretty darn cold out there. We did not get a survey done. We do have one from the PO from about 5-years back. She has been on the hard since then. The price point was in the buy-it-now-or-the-next-guy-will range so we took the risk. Still trying to figure out what we bought. There are no drawers or doors in the forward cabin, maybe never were. Cabinetry is there, just missing drawers. The main sheet traveler is right in front of the helm. It looks like it was previously on the bridge deck but does not look like it was ever on the cabin top. It is the deeper wing keel that has me most surprised. Where did that come from? It is listed as about 950# over standard weight.

Yes - discontinuous rod rigging is the right description. hull #240.

Mike

Mike,
Definitely sounds like the "special" 38 I was referring to! I recall that we modified the forward cabin to keep it light for racing. I don't recall the special traveler, but it could very well have been originally mounted on the bridge deck instead of on the cabin top. Not sure where that keel came from though. Ericson didn't do custom keels, and that doesn't look like the standard wing keel, so it must have been installed or modified by a PO.

That boat was built for a buyer who was the president of a sister company to Ericson, part of the CML Group. It may well have been the most expensive E-38 ever built, at least by Ericson!
 
Last edited:

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Ah, custom winged keel, 1987.

Let's see, Australia won the America's Cup in 1983. Secret winged keel--behold the future! Shrouded in mystery of course, almost illegal, but if you really want to win that's gotta be the ticket....

Hello, Ericson? I have some new ideas for a custom 38 that will be really fast.....
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
We have found our Ericson! We are new owners of a 1987 E-38, but she seems a little bit different. According to what we measure, and on her old phrf documents, she has an extra foot for both “P” and “E” dimensions. Rod rigging w/ running backstays, and she doesn’t have any lower shrouds, just the cap shrouds. As far as I can tell there never were any as the deck does not look patched where they normally would be. The keel is wing but draft is 5’ 8”. So – is this likely a “factory custom build?” Did Ericson do many custom builds?

Back in that time period, I recall a story about an E38 being commissioned in the Chesapeake by or for a sailmaker with racing in mind. Don't know if it was my dealer (Spicer's in Noank, CT) or the Ericson east coast rep (Dave Pugsley) or possibly a magazine article that described how the boom was mounted 1 foot lower to increase sail area for the generally light winds.

No memory of a longer boom at delivery. I suspect it was added later because the custom main traveler location (not on the cabintop) would have been in the aft location from the start and not on the bridgedeck to manage the longer boom. The custom bridgedeck location would have been a nice factory improvement for racing (like on the E33/36RH) and would have worked with the standard length boom but it also puts the main trimmer right in the middle of the primary genoa winches. The longer boom would add even more sail area and and the aft traveler would get the main trimmer back next to the helmsman and away from the genoa trimmers.

I'll bet money the boat had the standard 6'6" competition keel from the factory and a non-racing PO did a keel change for the Chesapeake. 90% of the boaters here in the Chesapeake (almost all the cruisers) would FREAK OUT with a 6' 6" draft if not racing. If you compare the side profile of the current wing to the competition keel, the E38 competition keel tapers to a pretty small area at the tip and the trailing edge noticeably angles forward.

See ~ minute 2 of Christians E38 survey video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7mpbcCa-u4

and

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/ericson-38

The current wing is close to vertical on the trailing edge to my eye and doesn't look like the competition keel with the tip cut off so I don't think it's a draft reduction of the original keel.

Mark
 

Mike_W.

Member I
Mark - I think you may be right on the keel. It sure looks like the std. keel shape, then just cut short and a wing added. I'll have to make some measurements one of these days and compare. I'm not sure that accounts for the extra 950 lbs though, especially considering the missing furniture.

Her previous name, maybe with the original owner, was Blitz. We have a couple early owners' names on some papers somewhere but, of course, I can't find them.

Since I don't think the mast is taller, the boom must be lower to get the extra foot for "P." The rig is off, but there is what I think is a spar-tite collar. I measure 46 inches from the top of the spar-tite, pretty close to deck level, to the gooseneck pin. Does anybody know the distance from deck to boom on a standard 38-200? I am worried that we won't be able to move the traveler back to the cabin top, and if we do are we going to be able to fit a dodger under the main sheet?

Second question is about the mast. With only in-line lower shrouds do the running back stays become critical for mast support or are they mostly just fun strings to pull to play with sail tuning?

Mike
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Mark - I think you may be right on the keel. It sure looks like the std. keel shape, then just cut short and a wing added. I'll have to make some measurements one of these days and compare. I'm not sure that accounts for the extra 950 lbs though, especially considering the missing furniture.

Her previous name, maybe with the original owner, was Blitz. We have a couple early owners' names on some papers somewhere but, of course, I can't find them.

Since I don't think the mast is taller, the boom must be lower to get the extra foot for "P." The rig is off, but there is what I think is a spar-tite collar. I measure 46 inches from the top of the spar-tite, pretty close to deck level, to the gooseneck pin. Does anybody know the distance from deck to boom on a standard 38-200? I am worried that we won't be able to move the traveler back to the cabin top, and if we do are we going to be able to fit a dodger under the main sheet?

Second question is about the mast. With only in-line lower shrouds do the running back stays become critical for mast support or are they mostly just fun strings to pull to play with sail tuning?

Mike

Regarding the traveler, the stock position on the Ericson 33RH, the E-36RH, the E-31C, and the Olson 34 is on the bridge deck.
i like it there. Lots handier for sailing short handed. Also has less force to handle, since the further aft the attachment on the boom is, the lower the force needed to pull the sail in.

Our boat has parallel shrouds with single lowers, and do use the runners (AKA check stays) out in the ocean in case the bow jams into a wave and the mast might try to push forward and bend too far. Possible threat of a dismasting in that case.

I do have the tall rig; and have spoken to another owner who has been ocean racing his Olson for many years without rigging his runners -- but he has the shorter standard rig, so his mast is a bit more stable. Well, that's the theory anyhow.

As for a dodger, you do need to design one with the aft edge close to but not chafing on the main sheet. You can then put on a bimini if you want and have a connecting piece for when you are not sailing.
 
Last edited:

Mike_W.

Member I
Really want to move the main sheet to the cabin top. We do not want an unhappy Admiral now, do we? Without thinking it through, I've wondered about being able to leave it set up so that a cockpit mounted traveler/mainsheet could be swapped in for the longer races.
 
Top