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Thread: [E32-3] How do you remove the head hoses on an E32?

  1. #16
    Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm Sati's Avatar
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    Alright, I just got confirmation that I have a liveaboard slip coming available in March, so I'll be getting my proverbial and literal shit together for a move in April. This project is now happening...ideally by the end of the month. I'll consider it a birthday present to myself...yeah...

    So tooling around a few of the other excellent plumbing overhaul threads on this site (Loren's was especially good) I'm seeing this is not only an opportunity to replace old hoses, but to improve the way the entire system functions. I'm not sure that my current setup is ideal at all, and after inspecting a few other setups, I'm pretty sure it's not.

    I've sadly only taken bad pictures of the setup so far, as the whole area grosses me out and I haven't wanted to spend time there. Time to suck it up. Gross head pictures coming up, and then a number of questions.


    This is kind of a rough picture of the entire gnarly under-sink situation.
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    Just a pic of the PHII pump with the rusty, gnarly intake hose going to it
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    This is the tank up and out to the deck fitting / overboard.
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    So looking at all this, there are a number glaring issues that need to get remedied.

    1. The PHII pump itself leaks. I have a sneaking suspicion this is the primary source of the head smell in the bathroom.
    2. The raw water intake hose to the PHII pump is basically disintegrating, it's rusty, cracked, etc.
    3. No vented loop from the PHII pump water to the bowl, it's maybe 2 feet of hose.
    4. Long run of white sanitation hose from PHII pump to Y valve seems suboptimal.
    5. Y valve is probably old and gnarly at this point.
    6. Holding tank compartment looks pretty gross. And why is the hole there, to give the tank hose room to sit? Was that the best option?
    7. The entire under sink area looks pretty messed up. Dirty, is the black stuff mold? Is the white stuff on the hoses salt, or calcium, or mildew or something else?

    So I'm open to some sage advice on what can be done here, but my basic ideas are as follows:

    1. Replace the PHII pump assembly entirely. I think it's been rebuilt 3 or so times, I'm just going to start fresh.
    2. Replace all the hoses. All of them. Except the soap hand pump tube, that looks fine.
    3. There has to be a way to optimize the Y valve situation more. Like have the toilet go straight to the holding tank, then have the Y valve be between the overboard thru-hull and the deck fitting for pump out.
    4. Maybe replace the Y valve - I never considered the back pressure of the holding tank pushing back into the system while heeled over, but that seems like something to avoid.
    5. Considering a new holding tank. Is there a ready-made Raritan tank that anyone would recommend? I should pull the old one at the very least to scour the compartment it's been sitting in.
    6. I know there's an easy upgrade here, having the sink drain go to the raw water intake, right? Is that done with a T-fitting connecting all three together?
    7. With all the hoses out, clean the bejeezus out of the under-sink area. After it's been cleaned thoroughly, could I do something like paint the whole area with Bilge Kote to seal in any lingering demons and give the area more of a sterile look instead of "unkempt latrine."

    Thanks for any tips and sorry you had to look at pictures of my gross head.
    Last edited by Sati; 02-12-2019 at 11:13 PM.
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  2. #17
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    This Tool is invaluable when it comes to removing hoses. Start Working the hose loose, spray some WD-40 in between the hose and barb. Keep working the tool in and around the hose and twist the hose with your hand if you can......With hoses that need to be reused, be careful not to puncture a hole in them.
    Josephine, E381 hull 505 (1983) Universal 5432

  3. #18
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    Geoff -

    My system is 100% gone, to be replaced by a composting toilet so I don't know enough to be of help on rebuilding the toilet itself.

    With the age, it's an easy guess that every seal is hardened and a candidate for replacement. If the Y valve and other fittings don't leak you probably could just clean them with Simple Green (or similar) and re-use.

    Mine did not have the hole next to the holding tank. I'd guess that some previous owner did that to try to change the hose or fitting. I would not try to change them in the boat with any confidence that the leak/weep was stopped. Further, if there's been a leak or if anything comes out when you pull the old hose, you'll still have a smelly puddle under the tank. You can see the wet bottom of my tank and the semi-dried puddle that was beneath it. I'd totally agree with removing the tank and cleaning beneath it.

    After you (1) cut the hoses and (2) cut the plywood board over the tank as shown in my photo, the tank can be rotated slightly and lifted out. Once cleaned, I don't see why you would need to replace the plastic holding tank unless it has physical damage.

    You will need to remove the tank to change the big hoses anyway, as they will be hardened and stiff. It's easy to get them to rotate on the fittings, but they do not want to slip off after becoming hardened with the internal steel wire. Since mine were coming out permanently, I just cut the hoses with the MultiMax. This did damage the plastic fittings.

    Didn't have a desire to taste the black or white stuff.

    Simple Green worked well for cleaning the under sink and holding tank areas, and I don't think you'll need to use bilge coat once finished with an intensive cleaning operation. Somebody else mentioned using the cheap disposable diapers and that was a really great idea.

    Glad you are also doing this in the cold rather than in a warm and humid summer.

    Good luck,

    Bob / TK
    Last edited by Tin Kicker; 02-13-2019 at 09:24 AM.

  4. #19
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    How does your sink drain/empty if it is not tee-d into the water intake for the head?
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  5. #20
    Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm Sati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    How does your sink drain/empty if it is not tee-d into the water intake for the head?
    Mine has its own thru-hull right now
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    How does your sink drain/empty if it is not tee-d into the water intake for the head?
    Keeping that single thru-hull and glassing over the big one for the toilet/head.
    I may in the future install a Y-valve to allow urine to drain overboard but near-term will be the usual composting toilet gallon jug to empty.
    Last edited by Tin Kicker; 02-13-2019 at 11:01 AM.

  7. #22
    Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm Sati's Avatar
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    If I tee the sink into the raw water intake for the toilet, wouldn't the toilet pump have a hard time sucking in water, as it'd be pulling air through the sink drain first? Or is there a T that has a valve or somesuch to prevent this?
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  8. #23
    Principal Partner GrandpaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sati View Post
    If I tee the sink into the raw water intake for the toilet, wouldn't the toilet pump have a hard time sucking in water, as it'd be pulling air through the sink drain first? Or is there a T that has a valve or somesuch to prevent this?
    The idea is to use fresh water from the sink to flush so you don't have seawater stink in your hoses. You close the thru-hull for the sink drain, fill the sink, and use that water to flush.
    1987 E32-III "Glory Days"
    Hull #711
    Slip in Rock Hall MD.
    Home in Downingtown PA.

  9. #24
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandpaSteve View Post
    The idea is to use fresh water from the sink to flush so you don't have seawater stink in your hoses. You close the thru-hull for the sink drain, fill the sink, and use that water to flush.
    That would definitely work, so long as you don't mind consuming fresh water to flush the toilet. I rarely fill my freshwater tanks, so I just flush with seawater. I don't know that the sea water smell is that much worse than the normal head smells.

    My sink drain hose is clear plastic, and teed into the top of the raw water intake. Because the intake is below the waterline, sea water fills the sink drain hose to about 5 in above the tee. So, whenever you draw sea water for a flush, it's always taken in from the thru-hull because of its location below the waterline.
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 02-13-2019 at 11:55 AM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  10. #25
    Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm Sati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    below the waterline.

    Ahh, it's below the waterline, of course. Some day I'll finally understand this boat thing. I'll definitely do this upgrade/improvement, then.
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  11. #26
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    I do winterize the system as described above, though. I stick a one-inch hose in the sink drain and blow air through the intake thru-hull to clear the line. The sink is now winterized, but not the head. So now, fill the sink with a quarter to 1/2 gallon of antifreeze, and pump it through the head. Now both are winterized.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  12. #27
    Principal Partner GrandpaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    That would definitely work, so long as you don't mind consuming fresh water to flush the toilet. I rarely fill my freshwater tanks, so I just flush with seawater. I don't know that the sea water smell is that much worse than the normal head smells.

    My sink drain hose is clear plastic, and teed into the top of the raw water intake. Because the intake is below the waterline, sea water fills the sink drain hose to about 5 in above the tee. So, whenever you draw sea water for a flush, it's always taken in from the thru-hull because of its location below the waterline.
    Fresh water flushing is all the rage around my marina. If you use sea water, you will be greeted by a sulpher stink of decaying micro organisms on your first flush Friday afternoon.
    1987 E32-III "Glory Days"
    Hull #711
    Slip in Rock Hall MD.
    Home in Downingtown PA.

  13. #28
    Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm Sati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandpaSteve View Post
    Fresh water flushing is all the rage around my marina. If you use sea water, you will be greeted by a sulpher stink of decaying micro organisms on your first flush Friday afternoon.

    Quite familiar with that smell. Peggy Hall's odor book suggests, if you're cruising, to sail around and use raw water to flush so long as you're actively on/using the boat, and do a rinse flush with freshwater after closing the thru-hulls / de-rigging the boat to go home.
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  14. #29
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    Ripped all the hoses out today. That was as bad as everyone tried telling me, even with the heat gun! That deck fitting hose was crazy tough to get out.

    And I didn't heed the oscillating tool advice and tried pulling the hose fitting off the tank while in the well...I must have overheated it and the fitting came out of the tank entirely, dumping.maybe a quart of "bottom of the tank" into the compartment and out into the bulkhead an ultimately onto/INTO the sole. Holy shit.

    What a mess..the sole was squishing and seeping for a while, but I sponged up consistently every few minutes and not it's not squishing but still seems loose....which is quite concerning. Maybe it's BEEN delaminated and this is the big reveal (to me) or is this just something that would happen if the sole gets soggy? Is there a TAFG compartment down there that's now full of holding tank stuff? Might have to make the sole rehab a sooner than later project..

    I ultimately jigsawed off the remaining fitting and was able to pull the tank without cutting the panel or wood. I threw it away... Think I might consider the composting head. This is indeed a nice storage compartment...

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    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  15. #30
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    Have you got a picture of your cabin sole showing the bilge inspection ports?

    Also, it is glued down--or are there screws showing.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
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