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How do you Remove Head Hoses? [Master Thread]

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
How does your sink drain/empty if it is not tee-d into the water intake for the head?
Keeping that single thru-hull and glassing over the big one for the toilet/head.
I may in the future install a Y-valve to allow urine to drain overboard but near-term will be the usual composting toilet gallon jug to empty.
 
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Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
If I tee the sink into the raw water intake for the toilet, wouldn't the toilet pump have a hard time sucking in water, as it'd be pulling air through the sink drain first? Or is there a T that has a valve or somesuch to prevent this?
 

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
If I tee the sink into the raw water intake for the toilet, wouldn't the toilet pump have a hard time sucking in water, as it'd be pulling air through the sink drain first? Or is there a T that has a valve or somesuch to prevent this?

The idea is to use fresh water from the sink to flush so you don't have seawater stink in your hoses. You close the thru-hull for the sink drain, fill the sink, and use that water to flush.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
The idea is to use fresh water from the sink to flush so you don't have seawater stink in your hoses. You close the thru-hull for the sink drain, fill the sink, and use that water to flush.

That would definitely work, so long as you don't mind consuming fresh water to flush the toilet. I rarely fill my freshwater tanks, so I just flush with seawater. I don't know that the sea water smell is that much worse than the normal head smells.

My sink drain hose is clear plastic, and teed into the top of the raw water intake. Because the intake is below the waterline, sea water fills the sink drain hose to about 5 in above the tee. So, whenever you draw sea water for a flush, it's always taken in from the thru-hull because of its location below the waterline.
 
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Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I do winterize the system as described above, though. I stick a one-inch hose in the sink drain and blow air through the intake thru-hull to clear the line. The sink is now winterized, but not the head. So now, fill the sink with a quarter to 1/2 gallon of antifreeze, and pump it through the head. Now both are winterized.
 

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
That would definitely work, so long as you don't mind consuming fresh water to flush the toilet. I rarely fill my freshwater tanks, so I just flush with seawater. I don't know that the sea water smell is that much worse than the normal head smells.

My sink drain hose is clear plastic, and teed into the top of the raw water intake. Because the intake is below the waterline, sea water fills the sink drain hose to about 5 in above the tee. So, whenever you draw sea water for a flush, it's always taken in from the thru-hull because of its location below the waterline.

Fresh water flushing is all the rage around my marina. If you use sea water, you will be greeted by a sulpher stink of decaying micro organisms on your first flush Friday afternoon.
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Fresh water flushing is all the rage around my marina. If you use sea water, you will be greeted by a sulpher stink of decaying micro organisms on your first flush Friday afternoon.


Quite familiar with that smell. Peggy Hall's odor book suggests, if you're cruising, to sail around and use raw water to flush so long as you're actively on/using the boat, and do a rinse flush with freshwater after closing the thru-hulls / de-rigging the boat to go home.
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Ripped all the hoses out today. That was as bad as everyone tried telling me, even with the heat gun! That deck fitting hose was crazy tough to get out.

And I didn't heed the oscillating tool advice and tried pulling the hose fitting off the tank while in the well...I must have overheated it and the fitting came out of the tank entirely, dumping.maybe a quart of "bottom of the tank" into the compartment and out into the bulkhead an ultimately onto/INTO the sole. Holy shit.

What a mess..the sole was squishing and seeping for a while, but I sponged up consistently every few minutes and not it's not squishing but still seems loose....which is quite concerning. Maybe it's BEEN delaminated and this is the big reveal (to me) or is this just something that would happen if the sole gets soggy? Is there a TAFG compartment down there that's now full of holding tank stuff? Might have to make the sole rehab a sooner than later project..

I ultimately jigsawed off the remaining fitting and was able to pull the tank without cutting the panel or wood. I threw it away... Think I might consider the composting head. This is indeed a nice storage compartment...

IMG_20190303_161110.jpg
MVIMG_20190303_165442.jpg
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Have you got a picture of your cabin sole showing the bilge inspection ports?

Also, it is glued down--or are there screws showing.
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
IMG_20190303_202648.jpg

The farthest forward bilge port I have is the one just aft of the mast, where the mast drains and shower sump empties. Sole is still glued down, don't think it's been removed yet.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
It looks like you have access to the main TAFG bilges. The forward two arenʻt connected with limber holes, however (theyʻre really just tab attachments to the hull) .

Theonious bilge C.jpgThelonious forward bilges.jpg
 
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Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
I imagine those forward pockets have some gnarly business going on right now. The sole is making a pretty significant squelching noise when I step on it. Is there anything I can do to try and speed up the drying process for this, space heater, dehumidifier? Patience?
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Won't hurt to try.

But if the plywood has actually absorbed water---well, everything has a lifespan.

We had a recent thread in which an owner removed a glued-down sole without destroying it. Maybe somebody can remember it.

Once removed, sometimes you can save a portion of sole with CPES and epoxy and beat the tedious full replacement job.

But let me not think up things to do--if it'll dry out, good enough.

Now that I think of it, it is common for bilge access hatches to have finger holes in them for lifting. If trapped water is suspected, you could always drill a finger hole over the compartment and pump water out through that. And just consider the remaining hole a "finger hole."
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
The wood isn't squishing by the end of today, so it must be drying, but its still sitting a bit proud of the surrounding cabin liner. Maybe it always was, I dunno. Will probably look at the sole rehab later this year assuming nothing else catastrophic happens. No head smell is stuck lingering either, so that's good.

Tin Kickers eval of composting heads fitting in the 32-3 made me pull my holding tank out of the bin and I spent a large part of today re-running hoses. I'm using White Trident 102 hose...$11 a foot at Fisheries Supply here in Seattle. Jeez. also replaced the two bottom fittings on the holding tank with new PVC fittings and installed a new PHII hand pump. I have most hoses back in, but the run from the Whale Gusher to the holding tank defeated me after 2 hours tonight. Stupid S curve....
 
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Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Finished the job yesterday. Thought I finished on Sunday, but it turned out the Y valve was dripping, as well as one of the plastic hose fittings that screws into the "overboard" thru-hull. I replaced the old Jabsco Y-valve with a new Jabsco Y-valve. I know they get something of a bad rap in the threads I've seen, but seeing as I had already cut and run the hoses to fit one, I replaced like with like. Pretty easy job to replace, too - compared to the others. As for the plastic fittings, I pulled them from the thru-hulls themselves and re-taped the threads with teflon tape. Seems to be holding for now....

The new PHII pump pulls water into the head and pushes it out with gusto. I don't regret replacing entirely instead of just rebuilding.

I ended up using Trident 102 hose for the whole system, except for the raw water intake and sink drain. That was some sort of basic Max-flex cheaper hose, but I'm less concerned because those don't hold "troubled waters." Chances are, if/when some aspect of the system fails in the future, it won't be the hoses permeating.

Note: I went with 25 feet of 102 hose and that was just barely enough with maybe 2-3 feet of wastage. I used 2 feet of 1" Maxflex for the sink and maybe 2-2.5ft of 3/4" maxflex for raw water intake. I also used 6-7 feet of 1/2" clear water hose for the air vent to the holding tank.

Everything is much cleaner - there's still sort of a dank smell if the head door has been closed for a while, but I think that might be the residual dampness and old grossness under the sink cabinet. I cleaned that out a lot with bleach and paper towels, but it might require some additional attention. I'm also going to try putting a small passive dehumidifier down there to see if drying the whole area out helps -- who knows how long that Y-valve and other fittings were slowly drip drip dripping down there.

I had a mild heart attack last night when my brain convinced me I had plumbed the deck fitting to the top of the holding tank instead of the bottom. After pulling the whole v-berth apart again, and triple-checking, I did it right the first time.

All in all, it feels really good to have completed my first "big" project on the boat - one I have plenty of bumps and bruises to show for. It also has given me some confidence that no matter how screwed up a job gets in the moment, everything on the boat is ultimately a physical object that can be repaired, rehabilitated, or replaced. Thanks all for the advice/etc.
 
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nquigley

Sustaining Member
I imagine those forward pockets have some gnarly business going on right now. The sole is making a pretty significant squelching noise when I step on it. Is there anything I can do to try and speed up the drying process for this, space heater, dehumidifier? Patience?
I think you will be able to suck the gnarly fluid out of the bilge pocket that's slightly forward of the mast (one of the ones under the squelchy flooring, with no access panel in the floor) ...
... go into the storage space under the seat that's on the port side of the mast. In the forward right corner you may find a small hole (I can't recall if you first have to undo a small access plate in the bottom of that locker?). Poke a hose down there and suck out the trapped liquid. It's about 15" from the hole in the settee locker to the middle of that cavity. When it's really full, you'll be able to get about a pint of water out of it. When I eventually redo my flooring, I'll include access panels for that bilge in the floor, AND, I plan to use latches to secure the floor panels so they can all be lifted up as and when needed.
Since Christian has pulled up all the flooring, maybe he knows where that liquid comes from, and where it (slowly) drains to.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I imagine those forward pockets have some gnarly business going on right now. The sole is making a pretty significant squelching noise when I step on it. Is there anything I can do to try and speed up the drying process for this, space heater, dehumidifier? Patience?

I had some loose sections of cabin sole that would also "squish" when I pressed on them when wet. Rather than delamination of the sole, the squishing was coming from areas where the plywood had come unglued from the TAFG. And, yes, these areas where sitting up proud of the rest of the sole.

If you can get a putty knife or a finger up under the raised edges of the sole, you might be able to wedge small pieces of cloth underneath to absorb more water. Or, keep them pry-ed upward and use a fan to help dry underneath.

If you can pull up on the loose sections just a bit but then feel a lot of resistance, your plywood and veneer are probably intact like mine were. I can't imagine rotting or delaminated wood would be so firm.

If you do have loose (unglued) sections of sole, they'll be your best friend when you go to remove the sole. I was able to remove my aft section of sole intact just a few weeks ago. Pictures posted near the end of this post: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1526-Removal-of-glued-down-cabin-sole/page6
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
E32-3 foreward bilges

In the photos, "3" is the same bilge.

As I recall, there is a crude opening in the molded side of the head shower sump, put there by the factory.

That can be used to pump out water trapped under the TAFG in that area.

The keel bolt bilge #3--does that have a limber hole to anywhere? I don't think so. My photos are ambiguous.

Note the two small drill holes at mast base. They direct mast rainwater directly under the TAFG, where some of it gets trapped.

Some previous owner thought that was better than pouring out over the floorboards. I didn;t disagree.

Thelonious forward bilges - Copy.jpgthelonious mast bilgeIMG_2852 - Copy.jpg
 
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