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changing main halyard from wire & rope to all rope on E30+

Mikeshield

Member I
I am considering changing the old wire & rope halyard on my 1981 Ericson 30+ to all rope. i have read that the masthead sheave/s may be an issue when changing to all rope if they are the wrong size or shape of groove which may cause binding or chaffing. I don't really want to go up the mast to investigate (just too much fun!) so i wonder if anyone knows the specs of the standard sheave on the Ericson 30+ or if anyone has changed their main halyard to rope with success?
Thanks
Mike
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Mike,

Until one of the 30+ owners weighs in, here are a few things to consider when making the change:

I would go with a hi-tech line to minimize stretch on that big E30+ mainsail. (For your genoa halyard too.) New England Ropes VPC 10mm (Vectran core) has been used by others here. I have it for my not so large E36RH main halyard and it is as easy to deal with as standard, all polyester Sta-Set. It goes on sale at APS in Annapolis, www.apsltd.com. They can make the whole halyard for you and do excellent work. I have NE Ropes Endura braid (Dyneema core) for my genoa halyard which I like even better but I believe it is more expensive.

Consider the halyard line diameter carefully. VPC is strong enough to use in small (think piano wire) sizes with the resulting damage to fingers and hands, making gloves mandatory. Previous threads suggest 3/8 or 5/16 as nice compromise diameters. Smaller diameter will work better with less chance of damage in your old wire masthead sheaves but may not hold well in older line clutches and older self tailing winch jaws which were designed for low tech, larger diameter lines. I've replaced all my running rigging over the years and I've kept all my lines between 3/8 and 7/16 so they work in my older Barient self tailing winches. This leads to some (most) hi-tech lines being oversized for load and stretch but they hold better in old clutches and ST jaws and they are easy on your hands.

I would plan on inspecting and probably replacing your masthead sheaves sometime in the future as they are pushing 40 years old. I would hang on to your old wire-rope main halyard until you do this in case you have an issue with something at the masthead damaging the new one. Just pop the old one back in so you can still go sailing and plan on the inspection to see what's happening up top.

Latest thread with many details on this subject:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...converting-from-wire-rope-halyard-to-all-rope

Mark
 
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JSM

Member III
We replaced all of the wire / rope halyards on our 34-2 with Novabraid XLE from cajunrope.com. Left all the old sheaves in place with no problem.
 

sharonov

Member II
I used New England Ropes VPC for all of my halyards with no sheave change...
Same here. Same diameter VPC and no sheave change. VPC feels more slippery then the old halyards, to the point where it actually slips in clutches and ST winches where the old halyards would not. Not sure if it is the nature of VPC rope or the fact that it is new.
 

frick

Member III
Mast Head issues

Most of the old Wire to rope Mast Head sheaves are an interesting shape.
They often had a wide top to accommodate the rope halyard, and often had a slotted shape do the wire halyard could drop in...

The only other danger I can think of is that often wire halyards created some shape wear edges at the mast head.
This could play havoc with the new all rope halyard. Inspect it well.

Do you have a friend with a quad copter drone? Fly up and do some filming.

Rick
 

Grizz

Grizz
Mast Head Sheaves

1 Point of View to add to the kettle: swapped out the (4) mast head sheaves last winter, upgrading to Delrin® from 1989 vintage OEM aluminum wire-to-rope sheaves. The new sheaves were procured from Zephyr Werks https://www.zephyrwerks.com/

The mast was secured to a cradle on the boat, inside storage, with the masthead oriented towards the back wall of the storage building, allowing the ladder to be propped against the wall so work could commence 14+ feet off the ground. Not comfortable, but far better than if working from a Bosun's Chair or harness with the boat displacing H²O, rocking and rolling, which would be far more difficult. As it was, it was plenty difficult, propped on 1 ladder rung, working around messenger lines, pulling sheave pins and implementing a procedure to assure the old/new sheaves weren't accidentally 'lost' down the mast during removal/installation; that would, as they say, "suck".

The masthead of an O-34 are tight quarters, as are most mastheads. The process was made a bit easier because the sheaves could be pulled, inspected and measured before placing the order with Zephyr Werks, making the process somewhat 'Idiot Resistant'.

The 1st hoist(s) of main, jib and kite in May proved the effort to be worthwhile and successful, as all 3 hoists (and subsequent douses) were far easier than the previous season, attested to by 'those that normally jump and douse' halyards (a very scientific measurement).

Back to today's triage. Take care.
 

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Get a piece of line of the new stuff and confirm it feels OK in the hand.

Test it to make sure it works in the self-tailing winch (small line may not), and your line clutches.

Probably all our original sheaves need to be replaced, but given the awkwardness I don't think it's critical.

I kept the original sheaves, and I wouldn't say they are butter smooth.

After 40 days continuous sailing, with reefs in and out at least three times a day, the main Dyneema halyard did chafe through its cover (only) about six inches down from the head. After returning home, I switched ends of the halyard.

I just examined both jib and main halyards this week, 18 months later, and they show absolutely no sheave wear at all.
 

Gary Holford

Member II
I changed my wire to rope on my E27 as well as the sheaves. Ed at Zephyrwerks made the new sheaves and I was very happy with the results. If you call him he may have the sheave sizes on file. I'm sure he's done many Ericsons.
 

HerbertFriedman

Member III
i also changed my main and jib halyards on my E34 from wire/rope to all rope (line) low stretch but 3/8" diameter. The clutch now does not hold under full tension, it pops up, so I need to either re tune the clutches (if possible) or get new clutches. But otherwise no problems.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
+1 for VPC. I found it to be the best compromise between strength/low-stretch/chafe-resistant/UV-tolerant, and easy on the hands.

I went with 5/16", which worked fine in my clutches, and was something like 30% less expensive than the 3/8"

Bruce
 

KanH

Member II
replacing rope to wire

I replaced all mine on my 30+. I went with 100' of 5/16 (8 mm) Crystalyne from APS 8 years ago. APS does a great job and Crystalyne might be a bit over kill it is better to be too strong and have extra than too week and too short. They have held up well and I did not have to replace any of my existing clutches

I would recommend that you should at some point have the mast taken down to inspect the sheaves and the overall health of the mast and rigging.
 

Bob Robertson

Member III
We bought our boat in 1988. A few years ago we bought new wire halyards. They work great and should easily last another 25 years.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I like wire halyards too, esp for a roller furler jib. And as I recall the price difference isn't much, so I changed with a shrug.

But I find line is better when it needs to be better. For example, trying to change headsails in a seaway. Wire no fun to hold onto up there.

And for the main halyard, you can wrap the rope halyard around the boom to support it when necessary, and again, when reefing in a seaway, line is just more secure in the hand than good old wire. Or when using the halyard as a dinghy or MOB lift.

Not a critical difference, but a value of line halyards I had not anticipated.

On the 12-Meter boats, the running backstays were wire, cast off and then winched tight after hand-wrapping a bunch of turns around a huge wire-winch drum--every tack. The guy who did it wore gloves and dealt with wire whipping around on the deck like spaghetti. Scariest part of the boat to be, everybody said. Long time ago, 1980 BD (Before Dyneema).
 

CTOlsen

Member III
Sheaves

1 Point of View to add to the kettle: swapped out the (4) mast head sheaves last winter, upgrading to Delrin® from 1989 vintage OEM aluminum wire-to-rope sheaves. The new sheaves were procured from Zephyr Werks https://www.zephyrwerks.com/

The mast was secured to a cradle on the boat, inside storage, with the masthead oriented towards the back wall of the storage building, allowing the ladder to be propped against the wall so work could commence 14+ feet off the ground. Not comfortable, but far better than if working from a Bosun's Chair or harness with the boat displacing H²O, rocking and rolling, which would be far more difficult. As it was, it was plenty difficult, propped on 1 ladder rung, working around messenger lines, pulling sheave pins and implementing a procedure to assure the old/new sheaves weren't accidentally 'lost' down the mast during removal/installation; that would, as they say, "suck".

The masthead of an O-34 are tight quarters, as are most mastheads. The process was made a bit easier because the sheaves could be pulled, inspected and measured before placing the order with Zephyr Werks, making the process somewhat 'Idiot Resistant'.

The 1st hoist(s) of main, jib and kite in May proved the effort to be worthwhile and successful, as all 3 hoists (and subsequent douses) were far easier than the previous season, attested to by 'those that normally jump and douse' halyards (a very scientific measurement).

Back to today's triage. Take care.

Great source! I've been sailing with High tech double braid halyards and backstay for years, but never changed out the sheaves. It's time! Thanks for the info.
CTO
 

Grizz

Grizz
3 Pics = 3k words (another in a series...)

As long as you're considering diving into this project, these pics of an (the?) O-34 masthead cluster should help. The pin and sheave for the Main are relatively easy, as both are fully exposed. The sheave pin for the headsail sheave is accessed behind the Kenyon cover plate and pin assembly. You'll probably need to disconnect the headstay foil to gain sufficient access to lift the sheave out. Dropping that sheave down/into the mast will ruin your morning, so having it secured before pulling the pin is important (snaking a thin wire around the sheave shaped in a 1/2 loop, catching the end with forceps worked for me). The thin wire was of sufficient length that it could be twisted together around the head foil, assuring it had nowhere to go. Working around the messenger lines added a hassle factor, but their thin diameter made it far easier to manage than if the halyards were still in place.


Then the real fun begins, as the (2) spinnaker sheaves use a combined pin hiding behind the Kenyon cover plate. Removal is fairly easy, repeat the process learned with the headsail sheave to prevent drops into the mast. The hard part is lining up both of the new sheaves so the Kenyon cover plate assembly and pin slide through both bushings and seat fully. You'll be working blind, 'cuz there's only a hole on one side of the mast and once the pin is inserted, you become Helen Keller, orienting by feel. The 1st sheave is fairly easy, it's the second that'll be a bugger, as there's virtually zero tolerance between the pin and bushing diameter (as it's 'spozed to be), so catching the 2nd hole cleanly is the challenge.

Operating on an extension ladder 14+ feet in the air, against a wall, was a mix of tight quarters, balance while perched inside a cold/unheated space. It was eventually worth the effort, but during the process = not much fun.

Good luck with yours. Pics and a progress report will close the circle. Take care.


Masthead Completion (2).jpgFake Wind = REal Windspeed.jpgApril 2018 Boat Prep (17).jpg
 
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