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E32-2 port side cockpit drain thru hull -- What were they thinking?

Ensenada Crab

Member I
i am replacing both valves on the thru hulls draining the cockpit. no problem to starboard. But the port side is located so close to the engine frame (which has a cut-out for the valve) it is impossible to remove the (i think) 45 degree elbow below the valve. and given there is a union and an elbow above the valve, its impossible to take out the valve without cutting a hole through the bulkhead or (as in my case) they cut the elbow off. that section was clearly not going back on as it was originally configured

the boat yard wanted to seal the existing thru hull and install a new one in a more convenient location. yikes.

ideally that 45 degree elbow should have been removed (and may yet be) but that will require removing the engine. so we'll see how plan B goes first. which is to re-snug the 45 degree elbow, install a new valve and then attached a short flexible hose to the top of the valve, eliminating the original elbow attached to the valve. the original tee will connect the two flexible drain hoses from the cockpit to the short hose section above the valve.

hope that all makes sense. given what looks like an impossible return to original configuration situation. am i missing the magical part or did they install the thru hull section before completing the bulkhead and installing the engine?

what other solutions have been used?
capture-20181130-175425.jpg
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Probably better if another E32-2 owner responds, but I'll take a crack at it. Based on what you discussed, my preferences would be:

1) Put back together per your "plan B." The crucial point on this one is being able to re-snug the lower 45 deg elbow (without removing it first and applying more pipe dope/teflon tape) to ensure it is leak free. The spacing looks so tight, you may not be able to re-tighten it enough to prevent leaks. If you CAN tighten it, you might also consider cutting a small section out of what you call the "bulkhead" to give you more clearance to install a new valve and elbow. I can't picture your boat, but on an E323, that "bulkhead" is likely just the enclosure that holds the fuel tank (disregard if the structure you are referring to is the engine stringer). I wouldn't have a problem cutting into the tank housing on my boat, but with the fuel tank behind the fiberglass wall, it may only yield an extra 1-2" of space anyway. Something to think about. Or stick with the "short hose" to eliminate the upper elbow above the valve.

2) If you can't get the lower 45 deg elbow to reseal, I'd go with the yard's recommendation to seal/move the thru-hull. At least you'll never face this problem again if you move the thru-hull.

3) Moving the engine would be my last choice (unless, of course, you already have engine mounts/propshaft/shaft seal/engine alignment on your to-do list). You should still move the thru-hull even if you do move the engine. These valves don't last forever. I wouldn't want to move my engine even once to access a valve, let alone a second time years down the road when the valve inevitably fails again.

Good luck....
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Like Ken, I also sail a different EY model. Having said that, shortly after we bought our boat we found that the engine water intake was not well located. It was under the galley sink and the hose had a convoluted run back to the engine, and I wanted to add a proper strainer and there was not enough room to do it right.
I did have a yard patch the original hole and install a new Forespar model 93 combo inlet and winterizing tap. This was back under the after berth and the hose run up the starboard side of the engine was straightforward. And there was ample room for a Groco strainer.
Valve link:
https://www.forespar.com/products/boat-marine-plumbing-engine-flush-out.shtml

Anyhow, correct guess that "moving" holes takes some time (and money if paying someone to do it). OTOH, patching the old hole starting with the 12-to-1 chamfer is pretty easy to do with a small angle grinder... inside access being the hard part on any boat.
Use some G10 fiberglass for the new backing plate. Bed the new fitting in thickened epoxy. Ridiculously strong - which is a good thing IMHO.

Keep us posted. And do not be too upset over increasing inside panel 'access' to some areas of the boat as long as structure is not harmed.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I don't know if this is possible - let alone smart - but if you can get a wrench on the thru-hull nut, with the boat out of the water you *may* be able to hold the nut in place and rotate the thru-hull from below.

May take three steps to get the whole assembly out of the boat - loosen the nut enough so the thru-hull body will rotate, then secure the 45-elbow with a strap wrench and rotate the thru-hull body out of it from below, then secure the nut and rotate the thru-hull body the rest of the way off the nut and out of the boat.

Doesn't answer the question of what to do next, but... it might be worth a try, before moving the engine, if getting the old one out (and/or replacing the 45) is the first goal.

Bruce
 

Ensenada Crab

Member I
i think its a 5416 problem. . .

i have seen a picture of another e32-2 with gas engine, and there was plenty of room around the port valve and thru hull. so i think this problem is unique to the frame for the universal 5614 diesel. i agree that turning the thru hull from below (which would require breaking the seal to the hull, so a lot of force) but would alleviate turning the fittings from inside the hull. so could everything be tightened down nicely using only the thru hull fitting from outside the hull?

if nothing else, owning a boat and its problems really take one beyond the mundane. . .thanks so much for all your suggestions.

one thing i noticed is the rubber tubing coming from the forward scupper drains was thick pliable rubber (seemingly new), whereas the tubes coming from the after scuppers was far less pliable, white tubing looking like they are maybe the originals.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Gordon,
There is a specific tool that marina yards have that fits into the outside of most thru hulls to hold them steady while turning the nut inside, or to turn them to loosen them. There is a thin indent up both sides that this tool fits into. I do not have one, nor have I seen one but I've heard marina staff talk about it. It may enable you to either tighten everything up so it doesn't leak if the thru hull itself is still in good condition, or you might find it helpful in loosening the thru hull.

I overheard one yard staff talk about removing a thru hull on another boat while I was there and he was going to use a metal saw to cut through it from the outside of the hull, laying the saw flat against the hull. So it seems there are a few options, depending on how you want to proceed.

Frank
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
That mythical tool is called a “step wrench” and laypeople can own one!

https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Algonquin-3BTHW50150-Water-Outlet/dp/B00E9M4P1U/

There is actually a nub on the inside of the throughhull that the notch in the wrench slides over. Brutally simple, yet effective.

My E32-2 has an A4 and has plenty of clearance around the throughhull.

I agree it is not that hard to move a throughhull - maybe three hours, once it’s out, to cut the new hole, grind a taper around the old hole, and build up circles of fiberglass/epoxy of increasing diameter to seal it. My first choice in this situation. Undoubtedly the cost of the tools if you did this yourself would be lower than the cost of the yard labor to do this - a $40 grinder, $20 hole saw, $60 of epoxy and cloth, with lots left over.

Second choice would be to use the step wrench to screw the throughhull into the replaced plumbing. I’d be super meticulous about getting this right and tight, given the difficulty of retightening later. Thus the second-choice status.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Custom Step Wrench

Socket Step Wrench.jpg

Find the right size socket and grind a slot in it. Works perfectly!
 

Jenkins

Member II
At the risk of some thread drift, can anybody tell me why these cockpit drains come to thru-hulls as opposed to above the waterline scuppers?

Thanks,

Peter
 

Parrothead

Member III
A flat bar with a Crescent wrench works too. It's not as elegant as other means but simple and effective. Old School all the way.
 

Attachments

  • Thru-hull with flat bar.jpg
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Ensenada Crab

Member I
great question. . . .all about looking good?

At the risk of some thread drift, can anybody tell me why these cockpit drains come to thru-hulls as opposed to above the waterline scuppers?

Thanks,

Peter

Peter, i also wondered about this idea. why introduce two large thru hulls when there is no necessity. but alas, those beautiful curves would be ruined by a bunch of holes above the water line. or would they? one of the boats in the yard is a racing sloop (really beautiful!) and it has a cutout stern section--a similar stern shown below. easy water in, easy water out. . . .granted its a different way of looking at water in the cockpit. less radical would be slots out the sides from the cockpit. . . .but that would make the storage on the either side of the cockpit much more challenging. . .sailboats are an agglomeration of compromises, but a hell of a lot more fun than the family sedan.
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