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WTB: Yacht Specialties sprocket for steering pedestal

Spiny Norman

Member I
Hey Guys,

Broke the steering chain on my E35-2. Had a new one built just to find it wouldn't sit on the sprocket properly. On closer inspection I learned the teeth on the sprocket were all beat to hell. So...I'm looking for an 11 tooth sprocket for a size 50 chain that fits a 1 1/8" shaft.

I called Holland Marine in Canada only to hear he sold the last one 15 years prior (which made me feel better than, "sold the last one yesterday.") The guy at Holland, however, was convinced that I should have 1" shaft. My calipers (both sets) say it's 1 1/8". Just curious if anybody has knowledge one way or the other on their YS.

Thanks
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Hi
Hey Guys,

Broke the steering chain on my E35-2. Had a new one built just to find it wouldn't sit on the sprocket properly. On closer inspection I learned the teeth on the sprocket were all beat to hell. So...I'm looking for an 11 tooth sprocket for a size 50 chain that fits a 1 1/8" shaft.

I called Holland Marine in Canada only to hear he sold the last one 15 years prior (which made me feel better than, "sold the last one yesterday.") The guy at Holland, however, was convinced that I should have 1" shaft. My calipers (both sets) say it's 1 1/8". Just curious if anybody has knowledge one way or the other on their YS.

Thanks

Not sure it would be the same size but there’s a ‘78 E 32-II that is being parted out here in Michigan. Yacht Specialties made most of the steering systems back in the day and perhaps that sprocket is possibly the same size (???). He DID post a message here on EYO about a month or so ago regarding parts.

Found the phone contact for him. 734.644.0336
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
If that doesn't work, I'd take the part to a machine shop for discussion.

These issues --sprocket damage, shaft diameter-- come up every day in the mechanical world and a good machinist can say right away what the options are.

My own experience in finding used parts has not been good, wasting months on "almost fits," so I always start with a machinist now.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
If that doesn't work, I'd take the part to a machine shop for discussion.

These issues --sprocket damage, shaft diameter-- come up every day in the mechanical world and a good machinist can say right away what the options are.

My own experience in finding used parts has not been good, wasting months on "almost fits," so I always start with a machinist now.

Point(s) well taken Christian. ...Especially with ol’ Murphy at the wheel ever too often!

That being said, all manufacturers always are economizing to save a buck with parts commonization wherever possible. The 32 & 35 were very similar in size and with their split cockpit layouts utilizing the short YS pedestal. I’m not an engineer but can surmise the two are most likely one and the same design specs. More than likely any mechanical advantage would have been designed into the turning block’s sizes leading to the quadrant for dollar savings.

Most certainly diameter measurements and a gear tooth count are in order, not to mention a check of the condition of the mechanism itself.
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Spiny,

See this thread:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...48-Yacht-Specialties-Pedestal-Broken-Sprocket

The referenced diagram is below. Edson price for a stainless 11 tooth 855-2-11-TSB is $225.

Similar stainless sprocket for ANSI #50 chain at McMaster Carr is ~ $100. https://www.mcmaster.com/6799k161
Note, this is a 12 tooth which will give slightly (9%) quicker steering and higher effort. I didn't see any 11 tooth sprockets for a 1 1/8 shaft diameter, probably because you need a bigger overall sprocket diameter for the 1 1/8 shaft and enough material for strength in other applications.
You just need to make sure the overall sprocket diameter fits in the existing space in the pedestal AND the extra tooth will require 5/8 inch (#50 chain = 5/8 inch per link (tooth)) of adjustment available in the wire tensioners (longer, the existing chain/wire will be 5/8 short with a 12 tooth).

FWIW, if you have ever thought of making your steering response quicker, now is the time to get an even bigger sprocket, if it fits in the pedestal. You can add chain links (one for each tooth) with a connecting link to compensate. Your steering effort will go up with the percentage increase in response so this is generally done with increasing the wheel diameter for more leverage if the effort level was already on the high end.

I would show your sprocket to a machinist and let him decide which will cost less to modify. He may find another, better sprocket to start with.

Mark
 

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Spiny Norman

Member I
Thanks for all the great input.

Here's where I am: I'm shying away from replacing any and/or all of the pedestal with old parts. I enjoy sailing considerably more than repairing and the idea of taking the time, energy, effort and money to make the repair, only to have to repeat the repair somewhere in the unknown future, doesn't excite me.

That being said, I took the sprocket down to a local machine shop and received a quote of about $600 to modify an Edson SS sprocket (that includes the Edson sprocket) to be an exact duplicate of my brass YS sprocket...only, obviously, in stainless steel. Then I called Edson to talk with them about the sprocket. The conversation I had with them has certainly got me thinking. According to them a YS pedestal has a lifespan of 30 years +/-. The validity of that statement I can't say. They gave me a quote on a new pedestal, a very close replica of my shortened YS pedestal that sits on the cockpit divider. The price wasn't, in my opinion, out of control. About $2600 for the pedestal, guard, and linkages. The bigger issue is that I would have to modify or move my traveler to accommodate the guard, which unlike the YS that sits directly in-line with the forward portion of the base and therefore up to and touching the traveler, sits forward of the pedestal and therefore directly where my traveler sits. Huge pain in the butt, that type of modification.

Also, I just had my own pedestal guard manufactured in an effort to mount my Garmin 942 chartplotter and anemometer in a NavPod. That was no small expense and I'm not super excited to toss it/sell it.

So in an effort to prevent this long story from getting any longer, I think I've talked myself into option #1, the modified Edson sprocket.

Thanks a ton for all your input.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I think you'll be fine. There isn't all that much to go wrong in these YS products--they're simple mechanical systems--and when it does, we can fix it.

Prices seem shocking, but you can't even buy a big winch for $600.

The upside is, most Ericson owners get to know their pedestal pretty well, and learn what to keep an eye on, and know how the thing works and what its
trouble points are. I have been on a couple of fancy boats when the steering went out, and none of us on board had the slightest idea how to deal with it, or even access the guts.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Thanks for all the great input.

Here's where I am: I'm shying away from replacing any and/or all of the pedestal with old parts. I enjoy sailing considerably more than repairing and the idea of taking the time, energy, effort and money to make the repair, only to have to repeat the repair somewhere in the unknown future, doesn't excite me.

That being said, I took the sprocket down to a local machine shop and received a quote of about $600 to modify an Edson SS sprocket (that includes the Edson sprocket) to be an exact duplicate of my brass YS sprocket...only, obviously, in stainless steel. Then I called Edson to talk with them about the sprocket. The conversation I had with them has certainly got me thinking. According to them a YS pedestal has a lifespan of 30 years +/-. The validity of that statement I can't say. They gave me a quote on a new pedestal, a very close replica of my shortened YS pedestal that sits on the cockpit divider. The price wasn't, in my opinion, out of control. About $2600 for the pedestal, guard, and linkages. The bigger issue is that I would have to modify or move my traveler to accommodate the guard, which unlike the YS that sits directly in-line with the forward portion of the base and therefore up to and touching the traveler, sits forward of the pedestal and therefore directly where my traveler sits. Huge pain in the butt, that type of modification.

Also, I just had my own pedestal guard manufactured in an effort to mount my Garmin 942 chartplotter and anemometer in a NavPod. That was no small expense and I'm not super excited to toss it/sell it.

So in an effort to prevent this long story from getting any longer, I think I've talked myself into option #1, the modified Edson sprocket.

Thanks a ton for all your input.

I can clearly see your point, that is why we went ahead and replaced all bulkheads on finding some dry rot around one lower shroud chain plate. We also put in all new chain plates and “While we were at it” all new wiring, plumbing and cabin mast support system. Nothing worse than sailing and having to worry about a weak link in the chain so to speak.

THAT being said, our YS system hasn’t given us one bit of trouble in the 45 years I’ve owned her. I inspect and service it as needed annually including shives, cables and quadrant. Chain and gears still have not shown any signs of being worn out.

I would love to hear what/why Edson bases their 30 year life span on.
 

Spiny Norman

Member I
I think you'll be fine. There isn't all that much to go wrong in these YS products--they're simple mechanical systems--and when it does, we can fix it.

Prices seem shocking, but you can't even buy a big winch for $600.

The upside is, most Ericson owners get to know their pedestal pretty well, and learn what to keep an eye on, and know how the thing works and what its
trouble points are. I have been on a couple of fancy boats when the steering went out, and none of us on board had the slightest idea how to deal with it, or even access the guts.

Christian, I remember watching your video of your solo voyage out to Hawaii and back and your steering failed. But I don't recall the issue. What was the failure?

Thanks
 

Spiny Norman

Member I
I can clearly see your point, that is why we went ahead and replaced all bulkheads on finding some dry rot around one lower shroud chain plate. We also put in all new chain plates and “While we were at it” all new wiring, plumbing and cabin mast support system. Nothing worse than sailing and having to worry about a weak link in the chain so to speak.

THAT being said, our YS system hasn’t given us one bit of trouble in the 45 years I’ve owned her. I inspect and service it as needed annually including shives, cables and quadrant. Chain and gears still have not shown any signs of being worn out.

I would love to hear what/why Edson bases their 30 year life span on.

Yeah, I don't hear a lot of stories about pedestals crumbling over the years so I'm certainly going to prod Edson regarding their failure data.

Thanks
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
>>I remember watching your video of your solo voyage out to Hawaii and back and your steering failed. But I don't recall the issue.

The issue was me not paying attention.

I had a welder replace the base of my rotted-out YS pedestal. He did a wonderful job with a sleeve and a half-inch base plate. I noticed that his shop was filled with antique lamps, for which he was known as a skilful restorer. He asked me, offhandedly, if I would like "invisible welds" on the base plate, which would look better. One always wants to look good, doesn't one?

"Invisible welds" meant tack welds on the inside of the base. Pretty good for a lamp. Not so good in six-foot seas off Kauai, where the pedestal fell over. I found a welder on the island who repaired it with deep-penetration welds while laughing at the story.

The original welder was not hip to the extreme forces our pedestals have to withstand in a seaway, where they are the sole support of the helmsman, or the grab point of three 200 pound crewmen as you broach.

Fuller account is here: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?119-Pedestal-Rebuild
 
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kapnkd

kapnkd
>>I remember watching your video of your solo voyage out to Hawaii and back and your steering failed. But I don't recall the issue.

The issue was me not paying attention.

I had a welder replace the base of my rotted-out YS pedestal. He did a wonderful job with a sleeve and a half-inch base plate. I noticed that his shop was filled with antique lamps, for which he was known as a skilful restorer. He asked me, offhandedly, if I would like "invisible welds" on the base plate, which would look better. One always wants to look good, doesn't one?

"Invisible welds" meant tack welds on the inside of the base. Pretty good for a lamp. Not so good in six-foot seas off Kauai, where the pedestal fell over. I found a welder on the island who repaired it with deep-penetration welds while laughing at the story.

The original welder was not hip to the extreme forces our pedestals have to withstand in a seaway, where they are the sole support of the helmsman, or the grab point of three 200 pound crewmen as you broach.

Fuller account is here: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?119-Pedestal-Rebuild


Hey Christian,

”Rotted Out”??? ...Was that the decking underneath or the base of the YS pedestal itself?? My YS pedestal is still as strong as ever. The area underneath, due to annual inspections revealing issues, was then epoxied and glassed plus SS strips added to spread the load. ...Knock on (solid) wood - no further problems/issues.

(BTW - Years ago we prudently added a large inspection plate to access the bridge deck area underneath the pedestal.)
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
"Thelonious was in above-average condition when I bought her in November, but the one job that stuck out was the pedestal base. The original owner, who had the boat from 1985 to 2011, must have watched the base of his aluminum Yacht Specialties (YS) pedestal slowly disintegrate, building it up from time to time with Bondo, then finally hiding the Bondo under a boot injected with foam . Here’s what was under the boot."

1-pedestal corrosion.jpg

Base corrosion isn't uncommon enough. Theories includes electrolysis caused by compass light wires, some kind of electrical exchange through the bolts, no galvanic isolator, bad shoreside stray current, etc. etc.

Even this is solvable, though.
 
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kapnkd

kapnkd
"Thelonious was in above-average condition when I bought her in November, but the one job that stuck out was the pedestal base. The original owner, who had the boat from 1985 to 2011, must have watched the base of his aluminum Yacht Specialties (YS) pedestal slowly disintegrate, building it up from time to time with Bondo, then finally hiding the Bondo under a boot injected with foam . Here’s what was under the boot."

Photos here: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...destal-Rebuild

Base corrosion isn't uncommon enough. Theories includes electrolysis caused by compass light wires, some kind of electrical exchange through the bolts, no galvanic isolator, bad shoreside stray current, etc. etc.

Even this is solvable, though.


Holy “Shmokes” Christian! ...Never have seen THAT before! Unreal!

Electroylosis was always certainly a problem in salt water for me but never that bad. Since later moving to the Great Lakes it became much less of an “E” issue. Even so, the close to 20 years of salt water sailing, I never had any pedestal issues like that at all. WOW!

Can’t begin to rationalize what ate away at your pedestal base! ...Curious also as to how your shaft and gears held up as well?? Any damage/deterioration with those as well?? (I still wonder how his sprocket, gears and chain could wear so badly?
-kd
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Just when I was starting to feel confident about just replacing sprocket. Thanks guys...;)

Hate to see anybody spend money one may not need to spend. ...Like I said, 45 years on my YS and still going strong.

I’ve only had a problem with a shive and cable once. We hooked up the emergency tiller that came with the boat and sailed into the Venice, FL inlet just fine - under a spinnaker at the time as well - never missing a beat.

Best and funny part was all the people on the jetty watching the boat sail in with no one at the wheel as they couldn’t see the emergency tiller being used. They kept curiously and panickedly pointing at us sailing in with speed and grace. ... Ahh, those great memorable moments we never forget!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Cast aluminum does have a variable lifespan in a salt environment. We really don't have much of it on our boats.

However, it was typically used for the end caps of booms and masts, which include important sheaves and pins. They bear watching and probably eventual replacement.

I like to remember that the effective life of a clipper ship was 10 years.
 
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