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Thread: WTB: Yacht Specialties sprocket for steering pedestal

  1. #1
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    WTB: Yacht Specialties sprocket for steering pedestal

    Hey Guys,

    Broke the steering chain on my E35-2. Had a new one built just to find it wouldn't sit on the sprocket properly. On closer inspection I learned the teeth on the sprocket were all beat to hell. So...I'm looking for an 11 tooth sprocket for a size 50 chain that fits a 1 1/8" shaft.

    I called Holland Marine in Canada only to hear he sold the last one 15 years prior (which made me feel better than, "sold the last one yesterday.") The guy at Holland, however, was convinced that I should have 1" shaft. My calipers (both sets) say it's 1 1/8". Just curious if anybody has knowledge one way or the other on their YS.

    Thanks
    Leslie "Scotto" Galbreath
    Spiny Norman
    Ericson 35-2 #600
    San Francisco, California

  2. #2
    kapnkd kapnkd's Avatar
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    Hi
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiny Norman View Post
    Hey Guys,

    Broke the steering chain on my E35-2. Had a new one built just to find it wouldn't sit on the sprocket properly. On closer inspection I learned the teeth on the sprocket were all beat to hell. So...I'm looking for an 11 tooth sprocket for a size 50 chain that fits a 1 1/8" shaft.

    I called Holland Marine in Canada only to hear he sold the last one 15 years prior (which made me feel better than, "sold the last one yesterday.") The guy at Holland, however, was convinced that I should have 1" shaft. My calipers (both sets) say it's 1 1/8". Just curious if anybody has knowledge one way or the other on their YS.

    Thanks
    Not sure it would be the same size but there’s a ‘78 E 32-II that is being parted out here in Michigan. Yacht Specialties made most of the steering systems back in the day and perhaps that sprocket is possibly the same size (???). He DID post a message here on EYO about a month or so ago regarding parts.

    Found the phone contact for him. 734.644.0336
    Last edited by kapnkd; 11-08-2018 at 12:46 PM.

  3. #3
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    If that doesn't work, I'd take the part to a machine shop for discussion.

    These issues --sprocket damage, shaft diameter-- come up every day in the mechanical world and a good machinist can say right away what the options are.

    My own experience in finding used parts has not been good, wasting months on "almost fits," so I always start with a machinist now.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
    Table of Contents for Thelonious Blog here
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  4. #4
    Principal Partner Afrakes's Avatar
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    Sprocket

    Try McMaster-Carr or Bruening Bearing or Power Transmission.
    Al Frakes
    1987 E-28 Reba Gee
    Hull #663
    Port Kent, NY

  5. #5
    kapnkd kapnkd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Williams View Post
    If that doesn't work, I'd take the part to a machine shop for discussion.

    These issues --sprocket damage, shaft diameter-- come up every day in the mechanical world and a good machinist can say right away what the options are.

    My own experience in finding used parts has not been good, wasting months on "almost fits," so I always start with a machinist now.
    Point(s) well taken Christian. ...Especially with ol’ Murphy at the wheel ever too often!

    That being said, all manufacturers always are economizing to save a buck with parts commonization wherever possible. The 32 & 35 were very similar in size and with their split cockpit layouts utilizing the short YS pedestal. I’m not an engineer but can surmise the two are most likely one and the same design specs. More than likely any mechanical advantage would have been designed into the turning block’s sizes leading to the quadrant for dollar savings.

    Most certainly diameter measurements and a gear tooth count are in order, not to mention a check of the condition of the mechanism itself.

  6. #6
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    Note--I just noticed some good threads below, under "Similar Threads."
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
    Table of Contents for Thelonious Blog here
    Videos: http://www.youtube.com/c/ChristianWilliamsYachting

  7. #7
    Try motion industries they have always been helpful. Take sprocket and chain

  8. #8
    Principal Partner markvone's Avatar
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    Spiny,

    See this thread:

    http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...roken-Sprocket

    The referenced diagram is below. Edson price for a stainless 11 tooth 855-2-11-TSB is $225.

    Similar stainless sprocket for ANSI #50 chain at McMaster Carr is ~ $100. https://www.mcmaster.com/6799k161
    Note, this is a 12 tooth which will give slightly (9%) quicker steering and higher effort. I didn't see any 11 tooth sprockets for a 1 1/8 shaft diameter, probably because you need a bigger overall sprocket diameter for the 1 1/8 shaft and enough material for strength in other applications.
    You just need to make sure the overall sprocket diameter fits in the existing space in the pedestal AND the extra tooth will require 5/8 inch (#50 chain = 5/8 inch per link (tooth)) of adjustment available in the wire tensioners (longer, the existing chain/wire will be 5/8 short with a 12 tooth).

    FWIW, if you have ever thought of making your steering response quicker, now is the time to get an even bigger sprocket, if it fits in the pedestal. You can add chain links (one for each tooth) with a connecting link to compensate. Your steering effort will go up with the percentage increase in response so this is generally done with increasing the wheel diameter for more leverage if the effort level was already on the high end.

    I would show your sprocket to a machinist and let him decide which will cost less to modify. He may find another, better sprocket to start with.

    Mark
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by markvone; 11-09-2018 at 05:31 AM.
    Mark & Ronnie Vinette
    E36RH #21 GLIDE
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    Thanks for all the great input.

    Here's where I am: I'm shying away from replacing any and/or all of the pedestal with old parts. I enjoy sailing considerably more than repairing and the idea of taking the time, energy, effort and money to make the repair, only to have to repeat the repair somewhere in the unknown future, doesn't excite me.

    That being said, I took the sprocket down to a local machine shop and received a quote of about $600 to modify an Edson SS sprocket (that includes the Edson sprocket) to be an exact duplicate of my brass YS sprocket...only, obviously, in stainless steel. Then I called Edson to talk with them about the sprocket. The conversation I had with them has certainly got me thinking. According to them a YS pedestal has a lifespan of 30 years +/-. The validity of that statement I can't say. They gave me a quote on a new pedestal, a very close replica of my shortened YS pedestal that sits on the cockpit divider. The price wasn't, in my opinion, out of control. About $2600 for the pedestal, guard, and linkages. The bigger issue is that I would have to modify or move my traveler to accommodate the guard, which unlike the YS that sits directly in-line with the forward portion of the base and therefore up to and touching the traveler, sits forward of the pedestal and therefore directly where my traveler sits. Huge pain in the butt, that type of modification.

    Also, I just had my own pedestal guard manufactured in an effort to mount my Garmin 942 chartplotter and anemometer in a NavPod. That was no small expense and I'm not super excited to toss it/sell it.

    So in an effort to prevent this long story from getting any longer, I think I've talked myself into option #1, the modified Edson sprocket.

    Thanks a ton for all your input.
    Leslie "Scotto" Galbreath
    Spiny Norman
    Ericson 35-2 #600
    San Francisco, California

  10. #10
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    I think you'll be fine. There isn't all that much to go wrong in these YS products--they're simple mechanical systems--and when it does, we can fix it.

    Prices seem shocking, but you can't even buy a big winch for $600.

    The upside is, most Ericson owners get to know their pedestal pretty well, and learn what to keep an eye on, and know how the thing works and what its
    trouble points are. I have been on a couple of fancy boats when the steering went out, and none of us on board had the slightest idea how to deal with it, or even access the guts.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
    Table of Contents for Thelonious Blog here
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  11. #11
    kapnkd kapnkd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiny Norman View Post
    Thanks for all the great input.

    Here's where I am: I'm shying away from replacing any and/or all of the pedestal with old parts. I enjoy sailing considerably more than repairing and the idea of taking the time, energy, effort and money to make the repair, only to have to repeat the repair somewhere in the unknown future, doesn't excite me.

    That being said, I took the sprocket down to a local machine shop and received a quote of about $600 to modify an Edson SS sprocket (that includes the Edson sprocket) to be an exact duplicate of my brass YS sprocket...only, obviously, in stainless steel. Then I called Edson to talk with them about the sprocket. The conversation I had with them has certainly got me thinking. According to them a YS pedestal has a lifespan of 30 years +/-. The validity of that statement I can't say. They gave me a quote on a new pedestal, a very close replica of my shortened YS pedestal that sits on the cockpit divider. The price wasn't, in my opinion, out of control. About $2600 for the pedestal, guard, and linkages. The bigger issue is that I would have to modify or move my traveler to accommodate the guard, which unlike the YS that sits directly in-line with the forward portion of the base and therefore up to and touching the traveler, sits forward of the pedestal and therefore directly where my traveler sits. Huge pain in the butt, that type of modification.

    Also, I just had my own pedestal guard manufactured in an effort to mount my Garmin 942 chartplotter and anemometer in a NavPod. That was no small expense and I'm not super excited to toss it/sell it.

    So in an effort to prevent this long story from getting any longer, I think I've talked myself into option #1, the modified Edson sprocket.

    Thanks a ton for all your input.
    I can clearly see your point, that is why we went ahead and replaced all bulkheads on finding some dry rot around one lower shroud chain plate. We also put in all new chain plates and “While we were at it” all new wiring, plumbing and cabin mast support system. Nothing worse than sailing and having to worry about a weak link in the chain so to speak.

    THAT being said, our YS system hasn’t given us one bit of trouble in the 45 years I’ve owned her. I inspect and service it as needed annually including shives, cables and quadrant. Chain and gears still have not shown any signs of being worn out.

    I would love to hear what/why Edson bases their 30 year life span on.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Williams View Post
    I think you'll be fine. There isn't all that much to go wrong in these YS products--they're simple mechanical systems--and when it does, we can fix it.

    Prices seem shocking, but you can't even buy a big winch for $600.

    The upside is, most Ericson owners get to know their pedestal pretty well, and learn what to keep an eye on, and know how the thing works and what its
    trouble points are. I have been on a couple of fancy boats when the steering went out, and none of us on board had the slightest idea how to deal with it, or even access the guts.
    Christian, I remember watching your video of your solo voyage out to Hawaii and back and your steering failed. But I don't recall the issue. What was the failure?

    Thanks
    Leslie "Scotto" Galbreath
    Spiny Norman
    Ericson 35-2 #600
    San Francisco, California

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapnkd View Post
    I can clearly see your point, that is why we went ahead and replaced all bulkheads on finding some dry rot around one lower shroud chain plate. We also put in all new chain plates and “While we were at it” all new wiring, plumbing and cabin mast support system. Nothing worse than sailing and having to worry about a weak link in the chain so to speak.

    THAT being said, our YS system hasn’t given us one bit of trouble in the 45 years I’ve owned her. I inspect and service it as needed annually including shives, cables and quadrant. Chain and gears still have not shown any signs of being worn out.

    I would love to hear what/why Edson bases their 30 year life span on.
    Yeah, I don't hear a lot of stories about pedestals crumbling over the years so I'm certainly going to prod Edson regarding their failure data.

    Thanks
    Leslie "Scotto" Galbreath
    Spiny Norman
    Ericson 35-2 #600
    San Francisco, California

  14. #14
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    [COLOR=#333333]>>I remember watching your video of your solo voyage out to Hawaii and back and your steering failed. But I don't recall the issue.

    The issue was me not paying attention.

    I had a welder replace the base of my rotted-out YS pedestal. He did a wonderful job with a sleeve and a half-inch base plate. I noticed that his shop was filled with antique lamps, for which he was known as a skilful restorer. He asked me, offhandedly, if I would like "invisible welds" on the base plate, which would look better. One always wants to look good, doesn't one?

    "Invisible welds" meant tack welds on the inside of the base. Pretty good for a lamp. Not so good in six-foot seas off Kauai, where the pedestal fell over. I found a welder on the island who repaired it with deep-penetration welds while laughing at the story.

    The original welder was not hip to the extreme forces our pedestals have to withstand in a seaway, where they are the sole support of the helmsman, or the grab point of three 200 pound crewmen as you broach.

    Fuller account is here: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...destal-Rebuild
    Last edited by Christian Williams; 11-10-2018 at 05:16 PM.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
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    kapnkd kapnkd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Williams View Post
    [COLOR=#333333]>>I remember watching your video of your solo voyage out to Hawaii and back and your steering failed. But I don't recall the issue.

    The issue was me not paying attention.

    I had a welder replace the base of my rotted-out YS pedestal. He did a wonderful job with a sleeve and a half-inch base plate. I noticed that his shop was filled with antique lamps, for which he was known as a skilful restorer. He asked me, offhandedly, if I would like "invisible welds" on the base plate, which would look better. One always wants to look good, doesn't one?

    "Invisible welds" meant tack welds on the inside of the base. Pretty good for a lamp. Not so good in six-foot seas off Kauai, where the pedestal fell over. I found a welder on the island who repaired it with deep-penetration welds while laughing at the story.

    The original welder was not hip to the extreme forces our pedestals have to withstand in a seaway, where they are the sole support of the helmsman, or the grab point of three 200 pound crewmen as you broach.

    Fuller account is here: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...destal-Rebuild
    Hey Christian,

    ”Rotted Out”??? ...Was that the decking underneath or the base of the YS pedestal itself?? My YS pedestal is still as strong as ever. The area underneath, due to annual inspections revealing issues, was then epoxied and glassed plus SS strips added to spread the load. ...Knock on (solid) wood - no further problems/issues.

    (BTW - Years ago we prudently added a large inspection plate to access the bridge deck area underneath the pedestal.)

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