Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: [E32-3] Installing Victron BMV-700

  1. #1
    Sustaining Member Sati's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    97

    [E32-3] Installing Victron BMV-700

    Hi folks,

    I need some help. I purchased a Victron BMV-700 battery monitor to help me monitor amp draw (and see what's sucking so much dang power) and am trying to install it myself without going to a shop.

    I've read the nice Marine How-To guide probably 10 times by now: https://marinehowto.com/installing-a-battery-monitor/ But their example setup is a nice, clean, wall-mounted demonstration:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	05-Installing-A-Battery-Monitor.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	49.8 KB 
ID:	25302

    and what I'm looking at is much more of a mess:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20181007_123646.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	81.5 KB 
ID:	25300
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20181007_123624.jpg 
Views:	33 
Size:	68.3 KB 
ID:	25301

    So my understanding from their example is that I need to have the following:

    1. ONE connection from the positive side of my batteries (do the batteries need to be connected via positive for this?) to the positive plug on the shunt.
    2. The system ground attached to the "bottom" of the shunt
    3. The "top" of the shunt connected to a bus that has the various negatives/grounds of the system attached.
    3a. Obviously looking at the back of the AC panel, I won't be running every negative system line to the shunt/negative bus bar...is there kind of a collected, panel-wide negative ground somewhere on the back of the AC panel? If so can you point it out to me?

    It's mad spaghetti back there and I am a little more intimidated than I felt going into it before I opened up the AC panel.
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  2. #2
    Senior Moderator Loren Beach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Portland, OR. Columbia River
    Posts
    7,194
    Blog Entries
    57

    Electircal

    A safe solution to the wires that have to go directly to the battery is a Blue Seas fused terminal.
    Second picture in this blog entry.
    http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...New-Smartgauge

    I consider it a genius bit of design work.
    1988 Olson 34 #8
    Sail # 28400
    Betamarine 25 (new 2018)
    Fresh Air
    Portland, OR USA

  3. #3
    Sustaining Member Sati's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    97
    This is a dumb question, but with your batteries connected like that, can you still run them separately (1/2/All)? Mine look to be connected at the negatives but not positives.
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  4. #4
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,477
    Blog Entries
    77
    Maine Sail is good on Victrons: https://marinehowto.com/installing-a-battery-monitor/

    I think if you intend to install the Victron yourself, it will pay off to first do some basic upgrading to the DC panel. The factory panels did not anticipate current electrical needs.

    This 2-part intro might be of interest: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...Reorganization

    Success in installing a battery monitor means understanding the boat's wiring (which is usually haphazard), so that everything goes through the shunt.

    I had an electrician sign off on both my Victron installs, just so I knew the readings would be as reliable as possible.

    (Sorry not to notice Maine Sail's link was already read 10 times by Geoff...see first post. But he changed the name of his Web site and I ain't used to that yet..or many other things)
    Last edited by Christian Williams; 10-08-2018 at 05:31 PM.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
    Table of Contents for Thelonious Blog here
    Videos: http://www.youtube.com/c/ChristianWilliamsYachting

  5. #5
    Senior Moderator Loren Beach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Portland, OR. Columbia River
    Posts
    7,194
    Blog Entries
    57

    Electircal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sati View Post
    This is a dumb question, but with your batteries connected like that, can you still run them separately (1/2/All)? Mine look to be connected at the negatives but not positives.
    If looking at the picture of our boat's house bank, that is one (1) bank. We do still have and use the factory 1-2-all master switch, but the second bank is a separate emergency 12 volt agm battery installed under the aft berth.

    Another way to look at it is to understand that our two six volt batteries are wired in series to create one 12 volt battery bank.
    1988 Olson 34 #8
    Sail # 28400
    Betamarine 25 (new 2018)
    Fresh Air
    Portland, OR USA

  6. #6
    Sustaining Member Sati's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Beach View Post
    If looking at the picture of our boat's house bank, that is one (1) bank. We do still have and use the factory 1-2-all master switch, but the second bank is a separate emergency 12 volt agm battery installed under the aft berth.

    Another way to look at it is to understand that our two six volt batteries are wired in series to create one 12 volt battery bank.
    I currently have two 12-volt deep cycle batteries likely due for replacement here soon...I don't think I have room for a third. So best practice here would be one battery being the "house bank" and one battery being the starter, correct?

    Success in installing a battery monitor means understanding the boat's wiring (which is usually haphazard), so that everything goes through the shunt.
    Christian, did you take any pics of your Victron shunt install?
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  7. #7
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,477
    Blog Entries
    77
    It's on the engine stringer of the 32-3, next to the (added) bus bar that collects the grounds off the engine block. On the 38 the battery box has (very slightly) more room, so I put it there.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	shunt-IMG_1452.JPG 
Views:	16 
Size:	84.4 KB 
ID:	25306
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
    Table of Contents for Thelonious Blog here
    Videos: http://www.youtube.com/c/ChristianWilliamsYachting

  8. #8
    Curator of Broken Parts toddster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oregon - The Gorge
    Posts
    1,398
    Blog Entries
    46
    It looks like you might have a dual-bank battery charger hooked up to your batteries. One negative and one fused positive wire to each battery. If so, those should stay where they are. Also one or two other things going directly to the batteries - bilge pump or something, which should be rewired as shown in photo 1. (At least all the grounds should go through a common bus.)

    There are lots of ways to hook up battery banks that are all "correct" though opinions vary as to which is "best." Since the small engines in our boats don't require a lot of starting power, a popular option is to run all loads (house and engine) to one big battery bank. A smaller battery, that can be located elsewhere if needed, serves as emergency back-up via the 1-2-all switch.

    edit. As far as I can see in the photo, everything on that panel is positive. The negative wires must lead off to a common ground back in the cabinetry somewhere.
    Last edited by toddster; 10-08-2018 at 04:52 PM.
    s/v arcturus E29 #134

  9. #9
    Curator of Broken Parts toddster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oregon - The Gorge
    Posts
    1,398
    Blog Entries
    46
    Well - interesting. Maine Sail says I'm wrong about the battery chargers. I find it confusing that he refers to charging sources as "loads." I guess that if you hook it all the the shunt, then you get negative readings during charging.

    I'm not sure, but I think I'd like to see my battery usage and my battery charging as separate numbers - not just their sum. Maybe that would require two monitors? Additional reading required.
    I'm also not sure that I'd want the positives from the charging sources on the same side of the switch as the loads - I'd put them behind a separate switch.
    Hmm... I guess if you have only one wire going to the engine, you've got the starter and the alternator on the same side of the switch anyway.

    Happy to be of confusion.
    s/v arcturus E29 #134

  10. #10
    Sustaining Member Sati's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    97
    So I'm really out of my element here. I had a friend come look today and he said I could just put the shunt between the battery ground and the system ground off the engine block, no bus bar required. I feel like this would make readings inaccurate because the power drain would be through the engine??? I think the panel negative also connects to the engine block, though I've yet to confirm where and how. There's a mysterious second negative hooked up where the battery ground is that looks like it runs to the fuel tank, but why would that be a thing?

    Anyways, can I get a sanity check on my understanding of how this works? I drew some diagrams of my current understanding of the boat wiring. If #2 would work and I don't HAVE to figure out how to run everything to a bus right now, that would be awesome.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MVIMG_20181011_205322.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	28.7 KB 
ID:	25349
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  11. #11
    Curator of Broken Parts toddster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oregon - The Gorge
    Posts
    1,398
    Blog Entries
    46
    The shade tree mechanic way of hooking up 12V systems was to ground everything to the engine block. The block was acting as your busbar. The thing is, there is only one stud on the engine that is supposed to have a ground wire, and with all the mod cons on 21st Century Digital Boats, the engine turns into a rats nest of sketchy wiring, scabbed on to every available screw that was never meant to support a wire. Thus the recommended practice is to off-load all those extraneous grounds to a dedicated busbar. Think of the busbar as being in the middle of the line between the engine and the battery negative.

    The fuel tank and possibly the deck fill are grounded to prevent a static electric charge from developing during fueling. Then there may be bonding wires between your through-hull fittings to prevent electrolytic charge. And maybe a link between your 12V ground and (if any) 110V ground.

    If you haven’t got them, it would probably be a good investment to order Nigel Calder and Don Casey’s books on the subject.
    s/v arcturus E29 #134

  12. #12
    Sustaining Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Gig Harbor, Wa
    Posts
    295
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sati View Post
    Anyways, can I get a sanity check on my understanding of how this works? I drew some diagrams of my current understanding of the boat wiring. If #2 would work and I don't HAVE to figure out how to run everything to a bus right now, that would be awesome.
    I'm certainly no expert in electrical systems (somebody go rouse Metzger.....), nor have I ever installed a shunt. I did install a ground bus-bar when I did my engine alternator bracket upgrade. Here are my thoughts:

    The idea of the shunt (for a battery monitor) is to measure "ALL" of the current flowing through a particular battery bank. If you have more than one path (more than one ground wire) back to your engine ground, the shunt may be missing the current flow through any alternate paths (ground wires). When I got my boat, it had about 6 or 7 different paths-to-ground. The 3 main ground wires (batt bank #1, bank #2, and electrical panel) had large wires connected to a bolt on the exhaust flange. Several smaller wires were also attached to the small studs on the engine cooling manifold.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1485406025858 (2).jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	95.3 KB 
ID:	25358

    To be able to measure "ALL" the current flow in your bank, I believe you would need to capture all the ground wires to a bus bar (before they are grounded to the engine), then run a single, large wire from the bus bar to the shunt, then finally another single, large wire from the shunt to the engine block (all in a series). That would seem to be the only way the shunt captures ALL the current flowing through a battery bank.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20170616_231619.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	72.0 KB 
ID:	25360. Or, to re-use your drawings, something more like this: Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MVIMG_20181011_205322.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	21.9 KB 
ID:	25359

    Note, if you have two battery banks, the setup gets more complicated. So somebody who has done this before should probably weigh in. I'm guessing most people only monitor the "house" bank, which would still be wired as discussed above. The second bank would probably require it's own, separate ground to the engine (so that its current does NOT go through the shunt). Admittedly, this is beyond my level of electrical knowledge.

    Also see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxtihQIs9fQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKCB4oBqums
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 10-12-2018 at 01:36 PM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  13. #13
    Principal Partner Tom Metzger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    1,472
    somebody go rouse Metzger.....
    Huh... What's going on? Why wake me? It's a weekend, dammit. Oh, OK, what's the problem?

    It's very simple, all of the current going through the house bank has to go through the shunt and no other current can go through it. Simple? Oh, there are details?

    Geoff - The Victron monitor can only monitor one bank. You can have more than one battery in a bank which is what many of us do. When my son bought his PS/E-32 I paralleled the two batteries in the well and added a third battery (second bank) in the sail locker for a reserve/starting battery. The two banks are wired through the 1-2-both switch. If you have a fridge I would recommend this arrangement (or similar). If you want to stay with the arrangement you have, two separate batteries, I would designate one of them "house" and the other "reserve". Every year I would switch them so they get equal use.

    Looking at your battery photo I see that the negative posts are tied together. Not acceptable. The house bank negative terminal must be connected to the shunt P1 terminal and nothing else can be connected to it. Nothing else can be connected to the P1 terminal. This means that the negative leads from the charger, the bilge pump and the unknown cable must be relocated to the engine ground (or bus). Assuming that you have one charger you do not need separate charger grounds. The P4 terminal of the shunt should both be connected to the engine ground (not a bus) as should the reserve battery negative terminal. If it is more convenient you can connect the reserve battery negative to the P4 shunt terminal.

    I believe that the yellow devices you question are fuses. It is good practice to have spares for all of the fuses on the boat.

    I suspect that the unknown cable goes back to the stereo to maintain the presets. It probably doesn't need a ground if I am correct.

    Fire away with questions.

    I'm not sure, but I think I'd like to see my battery usage and my battery charging as separate numbers - not just their sum. Maybe that would require two monitors?
    They're called ammeters, and they're cheap. Of course, most chargers already have them, in one form or another.

    OK, cocktail time in the east.
    Tom Metzger
    E-34 Xanthus

  14. #14
    Sustaining Member Sati's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    97
    Thanks for arising from the depths to help, Tom. Seems like harassing you with electrical system questions is an EYO rite of passage.

    Geoff - The Victron monitor can only monitor one bank.
    Actually I found I just had the wrong one - the BMV-702 has two positive connections so will accept two banks. But I'm thinking when I replace the batteries I'll go with two mounted as a house bank in the battery box and mount the starter/reserve in the aft settee compartment.

    Looking at your battery photo I see that the negative posts are tied together. Not acceptable.
    For education sake, why is this unacceptable? The boat came this way and seems to operate alright.

    The P4 terminal of the shunt should both be connected to the engine ground (not a bus)
    Doesn't the "load" side of the shunt need to be connected to the bus to read the other loads, though? As in the panel negative, bilge pumps, and so on. My friend says the same thing - wire it to the engine, but won't the engine block and its various rust/differing metals/etc cause inaccurate readings?
    Geoff W.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  15. #15
    Principal Partner Tom Metzger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    1,472
    Thanks for arising from the depths to help, Tom. Seems like harassing you with electrical system questions is an EYO rite of passage.
    Yup, but again we are approaching time for my "sundowner", as Philip calls it.

    Actually I found I just had the wrong one - the BMV-702 has two positive connections so will accept two banks. But I'm thinking when I replace the batteries I'll go with two mounted as a house bank in the battery box and mount the starter/reserve in the aft settee compartment.
    The BMV-702 only reads voltage for the second bank and would be used for your reserve battery. Interesting, on my -602 the two voltage readings are off by about 0.1 volts when reading the same voltage (switching the wires at the shunt). That's a lot when you are interested in a one volt spread. I don't remember which one was closer to my Fluke's reading.

    For education sake, why is this unacceptable? The boat came this way and seems to operate alright.
    It works for running the boat, but not for the monitor. The charging current and any load on the second battery would introduce an error. In the grand scheme of things it wouldn't matter too much, but it's not right and will get you a demerit, possibly two. Since you are going to install a reserve bank soon I wouldn't change it now.

    Doesn't the "load" side of the shunt need to be connected to the bus to read the other loads, though? As in the panel negative, bilge pumps, and so on. My friend says the same thing - wire it to the engine, but won't the engine block and its various rust/differing metals/etc cause inaccurate readings?
    The "zero voltage point" (ship's ground) is the engine ground point. The 1/0 cable (I used #2) between the shunt and the engine has effectively zero resistance. That's why you clean the ground point with a wire brush before whomping down on the 3/8" bolt. The reason the battery cable is fastened there is because you want to maintain the best possible path for the starter current. That is the largest and most important current on the boat (not including the fridge motor for keeping the ice frozen for the admiral's cocktails). The bus is connected to the engine ground point so the bus current goes through the shunt to get to the battery.

    BTW, your friend is smart, but I question his choice of friends.

    OK, 7 o'clock. Sundowner time in the east.
    Last edited by Tom Metzger; 10-15-2018 at 05:13 PM.
    Tom Metzger
    E-34 Xanthus

Similar Threads

  1. Connecting the Victron 600s Battery Monitor
    By Christian Williams in forum Maintenance & Mechanical
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-12-2014, 12:06 AM
  2. Installing Frigoboat in E35-3
    By lbertran in forum Maintenance & Mechanical
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-30-2010, 02:05 PM
  3. Installing a MaxProp, a DIY job ?
    By Sven in forum Maintenance & Mechanical
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-15-2009, 08:02 PM
  4. installing a windlass
    By spencer in forum Maintenance & Mechanical
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-25-2009, 07:40 PM
  5. Installing a Bow Roller on an E29
    By The Blue Heeler in forum Maintenance & Mechanical
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-11-2007, 11:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •