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E 30+ Bilge Pump Questions

Joed7

Junior Member
I am the new owner of a 1983 E 30+ and still underway in understanding the various systems in my boat. Hoping you all might help, in going over my new boat I have several questions regarding the bilge pump system.

First, I'm embarrassed to say that I can't find the powered bilge pump! I can hear it, but it is not visible after removing the engine cover and viewing from the starboard side, nor from the port side from the cabinet opening below the galley sink.

Second. I do not understand whether the manual system and the powered system share the same hoses and discharge (manual is through transom) or whether they are independent?

Third. I am hoping to find the pick up point of the system(s) as I wish to inspect and clean as necessary. Again, I can't find it/them!

Fourth. I know some systems are automatic with a float valve at the point of pick up. However I am confused by the fact that I have a breaker labeled "bilge pump." Is my system automatic or not? If automatic, do I leave the breaker on all the time to power it?

Finally, When I turn the powered bilge pump on at the breaker, it begins with great vigor but in about 10-15 seconds it slows then stops as if the battery has died. But batteries are fine. I turn it off quickly so as to not burn the pump out, but am having trouble imagining what is happening here.

Any and all insights greatly appreciated. So glad I have found this group.

Joe

Aside: it would be much easier if I had the owners manual for the E 30+. But simply cannot find on this forum or elsewhere. The closest I have found is one for the E 32 which in some cases is the same, some not. Any suggestions?
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Hey Joed - I'm keen to find out about a lot of what you asked as well.

For #1 - the bilge pump should actually be in the bilge itself, not the engine compartment. I'm not sure how the 30+ is configured but I've seen on the 32-3 there are three floorboards in the cabin itself you pull up to get to the bilge compartments, and one of those has the pump in it.
 

Joed7

Junior Member
Thanks, but not so my E 30+.

Sound definitely coming from engine compartment. As a back up I've pulled up all floorboards and find nothing bilge pump related there. I would suppose it simply relates to what is the lowest (accessible) point in each hull design.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
All of us, when taking over a new boat, have to trace the elements of every system personally. There is no guarantee any system is standard on multi-owner boats, and you are the only one who can know your own.

Basically, this means taking the boat apart and putting it back together again.

There are many bilge pump systems. You may have a diaphragm pump in the engine compartment and a hose to the bilge (if the motor sound is coming form there). Nobody knows but you.

This is merely encouragement to be hands on. You can't break anything by taking it apart (even the engine), and if you do break it it needed to be replaced anyhow.

Tackle the systems one by one--electrical, plumbing, rigging and so on. Understand them. Post photos with questions and somebody here will know the answer.

The alternative is to find a boat mechanic and get to know him. But since our boats are vintage, and since almost every single component is at the end of its design life, that gets expensive. And it leaves you helpless when routine issues pop up.

added:

Begin your tool collection. Most jobs require at least one new tool, and every tool is a permanent solution. Since tools in the garage at home are not helpful, I have a duplicate set of spanners, ratchets, saws, drills and so on on board. The tool kit and the collection of spares is as important as any sail, will grow in time and provide confidence beyond its cost.
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Joe,

We have a 1984 E30+ and may have a similar plumbing arrangement as on your boat. On our boat the bilge pump is under the quarterberth cushion, where there are two porthole openings. The bilge pump is in the one that's closer to the stern of the boat. Pry up the lid there and you might find it. If it's a Jabsco like mine, the impeller swells up over time (verified by the factory tech) and can bind in the pump. Mine blew a fuse and would also stop running until I lightly sanded the impellor ends (not the separate vanes) and it's been fine since.

You can turn the switch on at the quarterberth panel, but that makes mine run immediately, so I normally leave that off. I also have an automatic/manual/off switch, which I leave on Off most times, as if I leave it on automatic, the float switch in the bilge comes on when the boat heels a lot while sailing. I leave it on automatic if I am away from the boat for an extended time.


The pickup for the bilge is located in the forward bilge opening near the compression post. On our boat it's a 3/4" red hose with a screen pickup at the end.

You may also find a head bilge pickup under the plate in the head. In the compartment under the head sink, you may also find a switch that routes the flow from either the head bilge or the main bilge. I leave the head sump off and the main bilge on.


I hope I've answered your questions, but if not, let us know.

Frank
 

Joed7

Junior Member
Still can't find bilge pick up points

Frank, thanks for your detailed reply. Interesting, as your boat is exact same model and only a year younger than mine (1983) yet apparently some significant differences.

I have finally found my bilge pump, it is mounted on the wall between the trash compartment and the engine cooling manifold (port side of engine). Very difficult spot to even see, yet alone maintain. Perhaps that's why they changed the location in 84' to starboard quarter birth.

Where is the manual/auto switch you reference? I have none and wonder if that was an 84 revision or an owner add on.

You say "pickup for the bilge is located in the forward bilge opening near the compression post." Other than the small space to access keel bolts, taking up all my other floor panels reveals no spaces at all, just continuous fiberglass floor. See my photos below - can you be more specific on where the pickup is located and whether your floor design is different. This is my final and most frustrating question on this topic - I cannot find either the manual or powered bilge pickup points! I have pulled up every floor board and investigated every compartment interior. I just can't imagine that they weren't placed in an accessible location but I'm out of ideas on where to look.

Finally, unlike yours, and even though the literature says I have one, I find no powered bilge pump (nor a switch) in the head compartment. What do you mean when you say "under the plate in the head"? Mine head has a fully molded fiberglass pan to catch shower water so I'm not understanding the word "plate."

Thanks, Joe
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi Joe,

Even though our boats are only a year apart, previous owner changes might make your boat different from mine. I have two pick-ups, the first was in the small bilge compartment just aft of the compression post, the second one is under the brown plate in the head, used for shower sump, so if you don't have a shower, you may not have that one.

The other stuff I mentioned is visible on the left side of the opening when you open the door under the head sink. There is a valve arrangement there to switch between the main bilge and the head shower bilge--again if you don't have a shower, you may not have this second plumbing arrangement.

I suspect that the automatic, manual and off switch for the main bilge on our boat was added by a previous owner. It is located directly above the galley sink, visible when standing in the galley.

I agree with Christian's post above that the only way to really understand your boat is to explore in a systematic way, crawling into all the nooks and crannies, but I wouldn't take up the entire floor or do other things that cause damage.

I hope that helps a bit--I didn't see the pics you mentioned in your last post, so maybe you could try to post them again, as then we may be able to help a bit better.

Frank
 

Joed7

Junior Member
Still looking for bilge pick up point!

1983 E 30+. I have taken up all floor boards and don't find any access other than the small access where keel bolts are found. And nothing there to be seen regarding bilge lines or pick up point.

See photos. I'm stumped as to where the bilge lines run and cannot imagine that they were placed where access cannot be had. I simply want to ID location and ensure screens are clean.

Help, I'm desperate for ideas!

Joe

Screen Shot 2018-08-20 at 2.24.56 PM.pngScreen Shot 2018-08-20 at 2.24.12 PM.pngScreen Shot 2018-08-20 at 2.24.34 PM.png
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi Joe,
I'm not sure I can help more by posting ideas, but if you want to phone me, I am currently on my boat and I could talk in detail about our bilge setup, and suggest how you might problem solve yours. Our boats are a year apart, so they may be different, but probably not so very much. You can phone me at 250-802-3300 if you want.
Frank
 

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Hi Joe,

Discovery is an 1983 30+ also and Frank's description is accurate but note Christian's point that you have not taken up the flooring yet.

I replaced the original bilge pump and old red rubber. Installed a model from West marine that has an embedded float valve.

Placed the pump under the port side sitting abutting the head as that seemed to be a low point in the bilge.

MJS
 

Mikeshield

Member I
bilge pump question

Not sure if this repeats some of the advice already provided but I have an Ericson 30+ 1981 and the suction heads for the main manual bilge pump are located beneath the lift-out storage box underneith the formost seat in the dining nook. There are shut off valves for both the intake suction heads located underneith the sink in the head (left of the sink/head shut off valves). The sub floor beneath the teak/holy floor covers is not removable.
I also fitted a small automatic bilge pump in the bilge direct wired to the batteries as the main bilge pump is manual switch only. I guess the previous owner removed the float switch which often fail.
Mike
 

Ensenada Crab

Member I
One Bilge Pump Good, Two Must be Better?

so on my e32-2 i have a 500 gph Rule bilge pump. and what i noticed today is that if i turn on the bilge pump at the panel, the bilge pump comes on immediately and stays on, despite the bilge being dry. so i wondered if the pump was defective. then i turned off the bilge pump switch and pressed the test pump button on the pump and it came on, so there is still power to the pump--presumably for the automatic pumping mode. how much water in the bilge it takes to activate this automatic feature i have yet to discover.

so, it would seem (looking at the installation diagrams) that there are three wires going to the bilge pump, one for ground, one for manual and one for automatic. which is to say in this case despite the bilge pump being "off" at the panel, the pump will turn on if the pump senses water in the bilge. comforting.

so my next project is i noticed there are TWO bilge pump lines in the bilge (which exit out the stern) and only one of them has a bilge pump attached. so i obviously need to attach a second bilge pump for the second hose. i have a brand new rule 500 so will work on installing that one too--presumably sharing he source of power.

and i need to be sure that the electrical connections to the pump(s) are waterproof since the electrical lines are in the bilge and easily shorted. the existing one has lots of electrical tape so i am somewhat leery of its reliability. i am thinking of sealing the electrical connections in straws filled with silicon to keep the water away.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Please do not rely on centrifugal pumps like the Rule. Their actual output is way less than the advertised number. Also they can allow syphoning (back flooding).
They are cheap, and that's their main 'claim to fame'.

By the late 80's EY was installing Jabsco 37202 series multi-chamber check-valve pumps. They put two in our boat. The rated output is not so impressive, but they can actually achieve it in the real world. No back flooding, either.

Use smooth bore hose for bilge pumping. As others have pointed out do put the highest "loop" in the hose run near to the exit and well above the DWL.

That's only my opinion, and I am unanimous in that opinion!
:rolleyes:
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
Please do not rely on centrifugal pumps like the Rule. Their actual output is way less than the advertised number. Also they can allow syphoning (back flooding).
They are cheap, and that's their main 'claim to fame'.
By the late 80's EY was installing Jabsco 37202 series multi-chamber check-valve pumps. They put two in our boat. The rated output is not so impressive, but they can actually achieve it in the real world. No back flooding, either.
Use smooth bore hose for bilge pumping. As others have pointed out do put the highest "loop" in the hose run near to the exit and well above the DWL.

I have a Rule pump in my main bilge, and some other sort in the bilge that seems to just collect water from inside the mast.
I've had to replace the Rule one once, but it was easy because the motor part is removable/replaceable, without replacing or unmounting the body of the pump.

One of my PO's put a one-way check valve in the line right after the elbow that redirects the line that comes up from the bilge cavity.
Shouldn't that solution prevent back-siphoning? After turning off the pump, I never see back-flow into the bilge that just got pumped out.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
That's popular.

The problem is that if they clog, which they do, the bilge pump is useless. I cut mine out, but in any case they require monitoring and awareness.
 

Ensenada Crab

Member I
one bilge pump good two better?

given that Rule bilge pumps are not regarded as the best of bilge pumps, it just so happens i have two of them. the first Rule bilge pump has been installed and working fine, but there are two 3/4" bilge tubes exiting thru stern, well above the water line. so i am thinking why not connect the second (brand new) Rule bilge pump to the second 3/4" tube. my question is is there any reason i shouldn't connect both bilge pumps to the same power supply. The current bilge pump has automatic and manual settings (ie three wires going to the pump), and has been working fine. having fixed the leaking stern gland, the bilge pumps should be feeling lonely as the maytag repairman. . . i hope.

just a funny note: rather than using two wrenches to adjust the stern gland, the mechanic actually used one large pipe wrench and a ball peen hammer. great results, no sign of damage.
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Do not use the same circuit for both pumps. If one shorts out and trips the breaker, you have zero pumps working. Also, use marine shrink fit terminals and daub them with dielectric grease to keep corrosion at bay.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Do not use the same circuit for both pumps. If one shorts out and trips the breaker, you have zero pumps working. Also, use marine shrink fit terminals and daub them with dielectric grease to keep corrosion at bay.

Good advice as usual. Given that our boat has one breaker on the main panel for both pumps, we might have more risk, but then we have the very reliable Jabsco pumps. Also, each pump has its own little control panel with a fuse.
 
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