Water in cabinet (Hull-Deck Connection?)

After sailing the last few weeks we have found a little water in the starboard cabinet forward of the galley and wet locker In the area that is known as the entertainment center. We have really been healed over in both instances. I sprayed the track and station with water. Did not discern a leak but still possible. I know the water tank vent runs around there. Don’t know if possible for water from bilge to get that high. Bilge is dry after motoring sometimes has a little water. If track or Stanton are leaking have no idea how to get to it My outboard track on port side has one leaky bolt near chart table. I can touch it but no way to put a wrench on it. Temp fix with plastic tape over bolt holes on track. Figure if one bolt leaky possible for others. Boat is an 81. Original layout. Any thoughts or advice

Hull to Deck Joint is another possibility

My 1981 E36RH had two spots, one on each side, where the hull to deck joint area was leaking. Both areas were aft of the first toe rail scupper so they would leak when it rained. I took the aft, port section of the rub rail off (mine is black aluminum, no rubber insert) and found around 10 linear feet where there was a gap between the hull and deck. The gap was usually just big enough to fit a paint scraper, but some spots where close to 1/4 inch. In some spots I could insert the scraper over an inch until I hit the interior fiberglass bonding the hull to deck. I sealed the gap with thickened epoxy, cleaned up the rub rail and reinstalled it. The area on port that leaked was accessible behind the galley dish pullout. The interior fiberglass bonding between the hull and deck looked fine but was not completely bonded so it was not watertight. Water would ooze out of the fiberglass like a spring when it rained. I added a skim coat of thickened epoxy in the area to try and seal both sides. I'm sure the outer fix would be adequate if you don't have interior access.

I sealed a screw holding the stbd, aft rub rail and plugged the first toe rail scupper for another reason and the stbd side leak stopped. This leak is outboard of the chart desk and accessible from the interior as well. Water oozes out of the fiberglass like on the port side. I'll bet the same worker at Ericson did all the hull to deck fiberglass work on my boat. He probably set a record low time on my boat. Maybe he did yours?

I haven't removed the other three sections of rub rail to check and re-seal the hull to deck joint yet but I plan to. I have a third area on the port side of the v-berth, up at the hull to deck joint where all the staples holding the vinyl side cover are rusted. No obvious leaking but I must have a leak from a deck fitting or the hull to deck joint in this area.

The good news is that the rub rail comes off easy and all the work can be done from the exterior. I used an inflatable to do most of the work in my slip but tied up to a floating dock would be ideal.

Mark

In some spots I could insert the scraper over an inch until I hit the interior fiberglass bonding the hull to deck. I sealed the gap with thickened epoxy, cleaned up the rub rail and reinstalled it. ...The interior fiberglass bonding between the hull and deck looked fine but was not completely bonded so it was not watertight. Water would ooze out of the fiberglass like a spring when it rained.

I think Mark's observation solves a puzzle: if Ericson bonded the hull and deck with inside roving, in addition to the sealed flanges, how could it possibly leak?

In replacing aluminum rub rail I noticed those occasional gaps in the flanges. (Ericson hull and deck each had a large flange; they were mated and bolted together to cure. Then the big fabrication flanges were sawed off, leaving the 3/8th stub around the boat. The stub requires our specific rub rail sections, which must cover the stub).

It so happens that the rub rail screws go directly into the mated flanges. Ericson kept the screws short--1 1/4"-- so they wouldn't penetrate the roving inside. That's not much holding power, which is OK because the rub rail is only decorative.

Longer screws, likely used by owners as replacements, probably do penetrate the roving. That would be OK if liberally coated with sealant. But we have had reports of screws leaking if they do penetrate.

It isn't hard to pull a section of rub rail and epoxy any gaps, although removing the old caulk can be tedious.

Any rub rail screw that turns without holding suggests the join of the flanges is questionable there.

Let me add that "gaps" don't necessarily mean the boat leaks. I have replaced two aluminum rub rails, noticed and filled flange gaps, but neither boat leaked a drop.

It is also not a hull deck integrity issue, since the join is accomplished by the roving.

I believe I’ve had the same issue. My E38’s started taking on small amounts of water while beating north into the Sea of Cortez two weeks ago. We were frequently burying the rail in the steep chop. It was only leaking while we’re were on port tack. Took a while to figure out the source. Water was coming down below the nav station and into the base of the pantry. I pulled the starboard rub rail and found gaps as described by markvone. I squeezed thickened epoxy into the gap as well. Then I bedded the rail in liberal amounts of 3M 4200. Hopefully that will stop the leak. I’ll test it next time there’s a breeze in my teeth.

A friend of mine had this issue, and it was repaired by a yard back in the 90's. This was on an early 80's E-33.
Turned out that the inside layer(s) of roving had some areas where there was not sufficient resin and pin holes remained for water to get thru.
Strength/bonding was fine, and it was re-sealed from the outside and the aluminum 'rub rail' seam cover was reattached and re-bedded. On one side only, IIRC.
No leaks since.

Loren Beach said:

...
Turned out that the inside layer(s) of roving had some areas where there was not sufficient resin and pin holes remained for water to get thru.
...
...

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When fixing my hull/deck joint I found the inner roving to be quite porous but I think this may've been intentional. They got the strength with the roving and wouldn't want a water trap.

btw - Blindly feeling around in there can result in a bloody finger.
damhik

As recently posted I am replacing the rub rail on Discovery (1983 E-30+). What I didn't expound on is the reason for doing the project. Discovery's Port and Starboard sides leak in the same spots listed above (above the galley lockers and above the navigation station).

What I didn't see in the above discussion is the addition of 3 layers of fiberglass over the hull/deck joint. I have seen this technique in a few other blogs and think it adds stiffness as well as stops leaks.

Mark "Souleman" Soule

mjsouleman said:

...

What I didn't see in the above discussion is the addition of 3 layers of fiberglass over the hull/deck joint. I have seen this technique in a few other blogs and think it adds stiffness as well as stops leaks.

Mark "Souleman" Soule

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Going from solving the leaks to adding external glass is a big step in time and cost. It's also not structurally necessary and I'll disagree on the potential for adding any practical stiffness to the boat.

Before anything, you may also consider flooding the car tracks and lifeline post bases to see if any of those leak.

I

e38 owner said:

After sailing the last few weeks we have found a little water in the starboard cabinet forward of the galley and wet locker In the area that is known as the entertainment center. We have really been healed over in both instances. I sprayed the track and station with water. Did not discern a leak but still possible. I know the water tank vent runs around there. Don’t know if possible for water from bilge to get that high. Bilge is dry after motoring sometimes has a little water. If track or Stanton are leaking have no idea how to get to it My outboard track on port side has one leaky bolt near chart table. I can touch it but no way to put a wrench on it. Temp fix with plastic tape over bolt holes on track. Figure if one bolt leaky possible for others. Boat is an 81. Original layout. Any thoughts or advice

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did you ever resolve this. My 1980 E38 has the same issue, same place. Thanks.

As a complete rookie, I am wondering about one thing.

If you are going through the trouble of removing the rub tail for the repair.
Is there any reason not to just run a strip of Butyl tape across and screw it back on?

I would almost think it would would seal most leaks and still allow some flex.

Stuphoto said:

As a complete rookie, I am wondering about one thing.

If you are going through the trouble of removing the rub tail for the repair.
Is there any reason not to just run a strip of Butyl tape across and screw it back on?

I would almost think it would would seal most leaks and still allow some flex.

Click to expand...

The rub rails I've dealt with are filled with sealant and then fastened with screws, meaning that you pretty well destroy them in removal.

The butyl which is like a putty on a roll needs to be applied to a really clean surface to seal and keep the seal, and it needs a gap to fill. While the hull-deck joint gets pretty dirty, cleaning it with a sharp tool and acetone would get past the dirty aspect. However, a lot of these leaks happen at what are essentially loooong cracks with no width to fill.

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