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Carabiners and through hulls...

907Juice

Continuously learning
I’ve been slowly going around replacing a bunch of well used things on the boat from running rigging to deck hardware. First off, is there a reason that the sailing community hasn’t just gone to carabiners for attachment. I’ve been replacing everything with like items but it still makes me wonder. They are easy to use and most all have positive closing mechanisms. Also, I’m taking out my head and replacing with a porti potty. I don’t know if it will be permanent but it’ll prob be for the rest of the season. Is there a cap to put over the through hulls or should I just disconnect the hoses and wire the handles closed? Thanks for the help!

juice
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
I have a carabiner on my boom vang so it can be easily removed and rigged as a preventer, but for halyards I think the snap shackle and pin shackle have more meat, more positive looking mechanisms, and are a little smaller so no halyard length is wasted. I wouldn’t use a biner on those myself, but maybe on a centerboard boat...?
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
I’ve been slowly going around replacing a bunch of well used things on the boat from running rigging to deck hardware. First off, is there a reason that the sailing community hasn’t just gone to carabiners for attachment. I’ve been replacing everything with like items but it still makes me wonder. They are easy to use and most all have positive closing mechanisms. Also, I’m taking out my head and replacing with a porti potty. I don’t know if it will be permanent but it’ll prob be for the rest of the season. Is there a cap to put over the through hulls or should I just disconnect the hoses and wire the handles closed? Thanks for the help!

juice
Concerning the head, why not just go with an MSD porta potty and have the best of both worlds? You should be able to hook it up to the existing plumbing for overboard discharge where legal.
 

907Juice

Continuously learning
Concerning the head, why not just go with an MSD porta potty and have the best of both worlds? You should be able to hook it up to the existing plumbing for overboard discharge where legal.

I think I will work towards that. But I did a rebuild on my head mate and cracked the housing. I’ve tried to fix it a couple times to no avail and I have to order the whole pump for almost 200 (which I’m not too excited about). Westmarine had the 260B on sale for $45 so I snagged it while I worked out a more permanent solution. Besides, once we fix it, we have an extra pooper we can take on road trip / tent camping. Would be nice instead of squatting in the woods.
 

907Juice

Continuously learning
I have a carabiner on my boom vang so it can be easily removed and rigged as a preventer, but for halyards I think the snap shackle and pin shackle have more meat, more positive looking mechanisms, and are a little smaller so no halyard length is wasted. I wouldn’t use a biner on those myself, but maybe on a centerboard boat...?

I figured there was a reason. I just come from a rescue background and that is all we use. But then again, we aren’t hauling thousands of pounds.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Shackles swivel, which is often necessary on a boat.

They can also draw tight (lifeline gate shackles).

Otherwise, carbiners are fine. And usually cheaper.
 

907Juice

Continuously learning
Shackles swivel, which is often necessary on a boat.

That was what got me originally thinking. Went to buy a couple and those suckers are quite spendy.
They run $40-60 as compared to half (or less) for a biner. And don’t worry, I’m not gonna put one of those “not for climbing” ones on. Referring more to rescue/climbing ones that have positive closing and are strong.
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
there are lots of swiveling carabiners out there too - incl some in the over-engineered 'rescue' line:
https://www.google.com/search?q=swi...L2YMKHSMQBOAQ9QEIjgIwAw#imgrc=dnK8Flqc7ld_rM:
But, unlike snap shackles, one needs a little extra slack in the line attached to the swivel eye of the carabiner, or in the captive line, to get the captive line out through the open gate (snap shackles hinge open in a way that makes this unnecessary). This extra step can be an important safety feature for climbers - when under tension, the captive line will stay in the carabiner's hooked end if the gate opens unintentionally.
 
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Ryan L

s/v Naoma
Some things to consider... Aluminum carabiners corrode badly if not careful to maintain in salty air/water. Non-locking carabiners can tend to "grab" stuff (especially lines) they were not meant to capture. We've tried a bunch of stuff including standard recreational aluminum climbing biners (locking and non), rescue pulleys (in place of snatch blocks), etc. We stopped using aluminum biners for any use other than ascending the mast. We still use rescue pulleys with dedicated biner occasionally for very temporary use (like rigging a bridle for a sea anchor). A bit off topic but you're a rescue guy so you may be interested to know that we use a full-body harness for going up the mast and find it to be far more comfortable, useful, and safe than standard bosuns chair or recreation climbing harness. We have prussicks of various length/diameter stowed in various places and find them to be more practical than rolling hitch etc. We even use one (with a soft shackle) to back up our rope-to-chain splice on our primary ground tackle. We find soft shackles, if made correctly, to be more useful, less expensive, and often better functioning (for a variety of reasons) than metal shackles. I hope this is useful info for you and saves you from also having to hacksaw a carabiner to get it open after short time exposed to salt spray...
 

907Juice

Continuously learning
Some things to consider... Aluminum carabiners corrode badly if not careful to maintain in salty air/water. Non-locking carabiners can tend to "grab" stuff (especially lines) they were not meant to capture. We've tried a bunch of stuff including standard recreational aluminum climbing biners (locking and non), rescue pulleys (in place of snatch blocks), etc. We stopped using aluminum biners for any use other than ascending the mast. We still use rescue pulleys with dedicated biner occasionally for very temporary use (like rigging a bridle for a sea anchor). A bit off topic but you're a rescue guy so you may be interested to know that we use a full-body harness for going up the mast and find it to be far more comfortable, useful, and safe than standard bosuns chair or recreation climbing harness. We have prussicks of various length/diameter stowed in various places and find them to be more practical than rolling hitch etc. We even use one (with a soft shackle) to back up our rope-to-chain splice on our primary ground tackle. We find soft shackles, if made correctly, to be more useful, less expensive, and often better functioning (for a variety of reasons) than metal shackles. I hope this is useful info for you and saves you from also having to hacksaw a carabiner to get it open after short time exposed to salt spray...


Thanks Ryan,
Yeah everyone one has talked me out of using biners. It seemed like they would be easier but now I know what I didn’t know before. That is awesome about the full body harness. They aren’t much more expensive than a chair but a lot safer and you can’t get inverted. If I remember right you used to be FD in cal somewhere right? I still have some years left but I should be able to still get out young.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
A bit off topic but you're a rescue guy so you may be interested to know that we use a full-body harness for going up the mast and find it to be far more comfortable, useful, and safe than standard bosuns chair or recreation climbing harness.

I've never used a full-body harness, but I used climbing harnesses (*) for years when doing bow on race-boats, and find them far more secure (and comfortable) than a chair. I have one now, with a 4:1 tackle, for pulling myself up the mast when alone if needed. You literally can't fall out of one, even upside-down (I was at the masthead during a spinnaker broach on a 70-footer once, back in the day. Kinda exciting for a minute. I've always wondered whether I would have come out of a standard chair... ugh.)

(*) in climbing vernacular, what I have is actually a "hanging" harness rather than a climbing harness. The difference is that a climbing harness is supposed to be protection in a fall, they tend to be light and minimalist and really aren't that comfortable to sit in for any length of time. A "hanging" harness has wider waist-strap, wider leg-straps, and generally a few more utility loops you can hang things from (e.g, a tool bag). My harness of choice these days is a Petzl Calidris, but there are other good ones (Black Diamond "Big Gun", etc). They also make "canyon" harnesses which are pretty much the same design, plus a "seat" section.

I really wanted to like the purpose-made Spinlock harness, but the waist strap and leg straps are stiff and not padded, so... might be very secure, but not very comfortable. Plus the one-size-fits-all isn't optimal, as it's super-important a harness like this fits the user correctly...

$.02
Bruce
 
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