Bow water tank - Round two

Loren is right, there is a hefty tooling cost to be borne by the buyer for a new Ronco tank design. Ronco promptly responded by e-mail that they were not the best supplier for this tank. I phoned them and the reason is that it would be cost prohibitive compared to fabricating out of the same material. For a tank this size, and presumably due to its complexity, Ronco said perhaps $2,000 just for the steel mold. Alas, no magic. They did say that the tooling cost could be spread if I could get others to place orders for the same tank. Side note: They have no sales people. So all word of mouth (or Web searches) for business referrals. Anyway, fast feedback is appreciated. Their good prices are due to repeat business for existing molds in their catalog.

So, I'm going to call that welder and see when we can get together to assess the current tank for repairs. I've already lined up several sources and estimates for 16 and 18 gauge stainless steel sheet to use for a repair.

Christian, thanks for making a jpg out of that PDF. I was too tired to do so when it didn't automatically show as a link instead of a blank picture. I'll add the baffles with their measurements and repost a new jpg later.

Appreciate all the feedback!

Weight

8.32 lbs. per gallon.

The original tank was probably made by Berry Marine in Santa Ana, CA. Vic is a one man shop (last name is not Berry, I don’t believe). He made a fuel tank for me and it was very reasonably priced. Great quality. I don’t know about shipping but it may be worth looking into.

He told me he would keep working as long as he could when I asked him if he would retire.

Google Berry Marine Tanks

Keith Parcells said:

The original tank was probably made by Berry Marine in Santa Ana, CA. Vic is a one man shop (last name is not Berry, I don’t believe). He made a fuel tank for me and it was very reasonably priced. Great quality. I don’t know about shipping but it may be worth looking into.

He told me he would keep working as long as he could when I asked him if he would retire.

Google Berry Marine Tanks

Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendation, Keith. I am going with a Seattle firm. I can pick it up myself and even drop off the old one to use as a pattern to back up my sketch.

The local welder I contacted is not available for the time being and so I asked around and was steered to a small shop in Burien, WA. When he saw the size and complexity he referred me to a Seattle company that he would have subbed some work to anyway. So, 7-10 business days and I should have a new and sturdier tank. It will be two gauges heavier material, with baffles and three clean out ports.

New tank installed

Well, despite the cost, I am pleased with the new tank. Mainly because it was delivered cleaned out, on the early side of the promised schedule, is well built and it fits perfectly into the space. On the cost side, I include the drive up into NW Seattle on a hot Friday afternoon and the draw bridge that opened during the commuter time. We barely made it before the office closed at 4pm. But then we dawdled up there, as we were hungry and traffic was typical and unappealing. We tried a very good and new-to-us small restaurant and then met friends at a winery tasting room for a glass of crisp rose and a cup of sangria. The drive home was quick, pleasant and cooler. But I'm not reviewing food and drink here, actually.

The tank is built slightly differently from the old one. The bottom and sides are one-piece, where the old one was three pieces, the bottom being separate. I was hoping that there would be fewer welds and they accomplished that. At 14 gauge, the tank is about 32 pounds heavier - 98 lb, so I had to have help all the way from the car to the hole in the bow. The fittings stayed where the old ones were so that I didn't have to re-plumb anything. I stayed with 4" Beckson ports because of the tighter spaces outboard of the baffles and the fact that my arm will fit through the 4" opening. These ports are installed with machine screws and nuts, rather than sheet metal screws. The tank is resting on Dri-Deck, which will provide ventilation to the underside of the tank. The bottom of the old one was pitted badly from resting directly on plywood all those years.

And it still fits on a dock cart!

Unintended consequences

When I filled this tank to full the first time, I let it go until the vent had water flowing out of it, as I usually do. Big mistake. The three Beckson inspection ports leaked like crazy. Must have dumped a 1/2 gallon before I could yank the hose out of the deck filler. The old tank, with one inspection port, leaked out of it too. But it was only one port. I assumed (hoped?) that the professional looking job of installing and sealing the ports, not to mention the brand new o-rings around the lids, would essentially be leak proof. Nope. So I have three leaky holes in the top of our new tank. I will not let the tank fill unattended again.

When connecting the new tank to the ship's water pipe, I used the same old grey plastic "PB - polybutyl-something" elbow fitting for the tank feed outlet down there under the v-berth. It is a restricted area as far as waving a wrench around and after a couple days there was a little puddle beneath the fitting. Although the puddle was probably from the nut and compression fitting on the pipe, which were also showing their age, I decided to try a modern substitute for the connection to the gray "PB" pipe. As shown in the picture I installed a 1/2" male to female galvanized pipe elbow in the tank boss. Then I dug up my spare Watts Quick Connect fitting that has a male 1/2" pipe to a nice 3/8" push-in fitting that is secure and doesn't leak. It has the bonus feature that it is easy to disconnect from the PB tube. So, it screwed right into the elbow and all I had to do was cut off the tube to eliminate the compression bulb and its metal retainer. That was pretty easy and doesn't require other adapters or replacing any of that old pipe at all. I used the same Quick Connect fitting back on my water heater for either the outlet or the inlet and it has been working great since 2009 with up to 45 psi pressure on it.

This type of Quick Connect adapter isn't new, but it bears repeating, especially for new owners of older boats, that there are good and easy to install alternatives to the old fittings on the ends of these durable PB pipes. I got mine, back in the day, at Ace Hardware and I'm going back to see about another spare.

Regarding the sealing of the ports, when our new water tank was built out of SS, the fabricator welded a ring on first and then tapped the screws into it. This gave a rigid surface for sealing the Beckson plastic fitting to. I find that the O-rings seal fine, but you do have to turn the access lid down 'tight' to get that to work.

As for the original "water pipe", I threw it out. That was a product called "Qest" tubing and was involved in a large lawsuit back in the 90's, IIRC. Caused leaks in houses, RV's, and also boats.

Loren Beach said:

Regarding the sealing of the ports, when our new water tank was built out of SS, the fabricator welded a ring on first and then tapped the screws into it. This gave a rigid surface for sealing the Beckson plastic fitting to. I find that the O-rings seal fine, but you do have to turn the access lid down 'tight' to get that to work.

As for the original "water pipe", I threw it out. That was a product called "Qest" tubing and was involved in a large lawsuit back in the 90's, IIRC. Caused leaks in houses, RV's, and also boats.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not sure why I thought that they would be a watertight seal. Six screws each are lots of potential for leaks and I didn't tighten the lids beyond what I could get with my fingers. I might look at improving the sealing job this winter.

Qest poly-butyl water pipe

Loren Beach said:

Regarding the sealing of the ports ... snip ...

As for the original "water pipe", I threw it out. That was a product called "Qest" tubing and was involved in a large lawsuit back in the 90's, IIRC. Caused leaks in houses, RV's, and also boats.

Click to expand...

I barely remember past discussions on this board about the Qest tubing that may be in many of our 80s boats, and perhaps later years. So I did an online search on Qest plumbing and read through about three of the hundreds of articles regarding the problems and they are pretty scary. The writings I read seemed to be posted by installers and described problems with the tubing itself and the installation techniques used over the years. I am surprised that there are still so many sources for the PB fittings and adapters after 30+ years of these problems.

On my boat, at least, I am not concerned about the main leak-producing problems that were mentioned, which were: UV light exposure before or after installation, improper connector termination technique or materials, and chlorinated water exposure. The only one potential issue that I can address directly, for the plumbing on my boat, is the termination method. The metal retaining rings for the compression fittings are stainless steel. The five connections I have dealt with were good in that respect, and I replaced two with the modern adapter pictured in my previous post in this thread. I changed the two because the old nuts on the tube are tough to torque properly to avoid stripping the plastic thread, especially in a confined area. The one back at the water heater was replaced because it would not stop leaking after I disturbed it to replace the water heater. The stick-in fittings that I used have performed great.

My takeaways from the things I have read about Qest and my own experience are: If your tubing is still flexible and in a dark place, it's probably not going to suddenly spring a leak; compression type connections can be a problem; and lightly chlorinated water, such as that used in many public water systems, is not likely to degrade your PB tubing. But, when you add that swimming pool or hot tub to your Ericson, don't use PB tubing.