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Survey of Mainsail Furling Systems 2018--Goods and Bads

L

Leslie Newman

Guest
Ohh yeah we just got batt cars on our new sail to go with the full length battons. The sail drops like a rock now!

Wondering which system did you choose? Meaning, reading Harken site the AA size should handle our mainsail size. Did you install the AA?
Also, how many ball bearing Battcars did it take? Did you use the slider cars at the intermediate luff positions? What is your stack height? I would like to keep the stack low so as it will fit into the stack pack we just made. Thanks.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Rick,

>>>by pulling on the lines to tension the jack it causes those line to pop out of the quick release.

Can you do that from the cockpit? How is it rigged?
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Also, my friends that have tried the Dutchman system have had to replace the fish line regularly. UV appears to weaken it and it breaks. My local sailmaker advises against it, citing poorer sail shaping and chafe problems. Like a lot of rigging schemes, it requires attention and maintenance... and is not a "buy and forget" solution.

Loren - When I bought a main sail in 2001 the local Doyle loft wouldn't quote a Dutchman system. It does make the sail design a little more difficult, and "why cut holes in a brand new sail?" :0 He lost the sale, but since then has started selling sails with them. The down lines on my boat lasted 15 years before one broke. The original lines on the boat were 14 years old when I replaced them. Replacing them is an easy job because it can be done from the deck.

I set the topping lift and down lines in the spring and they stay as set for the season. Because the topping lift is slack when sailing the down lines are also slack so they do not affect sail shape.

UV may be a problem farther south, I don't know, but Portland is a degree north of Xanthus.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
As regards competing points of each choice:

It would seem that the Dutchman system eliminates the fouls of jacklines (for which boom must feather when hoisting).

But if the topping lift is fixed, that would not work for me.

Each reef raises my boom end, requiring adjustment of the topping lift.

Also, I raise and lower the boom by topping lift for my big under-boom cockpit cover-- and also for convenience to work on the boom end.

Perhaps I misunderstand.

Also, we have not heard much about teh various stack-packs.
 
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mfield

Member III
Dutchman line

UV may be a problem farther south, I don't know, but Portland is a degree north of Xanthus.

I had to replace a line on the Dutchman, it was at least 3 years old. I used Monoi Hi-Catch 400 pound leader line ($35 at WM for 100 yards, a lifetime supply), this has UV blockers for a longer life than strimmer wire.

I had to use a step ladder after lowering the topping lift to the lowest point available, but it was a simple task to attach the new lines.

I find heading into the wind drops the sails cleanly with no intervention, any other angle means some tugging on the sails.

Removing the topping lift would involve unshackling it from the boom, a bit of a pain, but I have not had to do this so far.

Since my sail cover does not have a slit to allow the lines to stay up I have to slacken off the Dutchman lines before putting on the cover.
 

Neil Gallagher

1984 E381
I will jump in here. The PO of my E381 added a Doyle Stack Pack with a full battens and Tides Strong Track. The sail cover has one zipper and is held up by lazy jacks the are threaded though battens inserted into the sail cover. The cover stays in place while sailing. To raise and lower the bow is feathered into the wind, sail goes up and down easily thanks to the Tides Strong Track and cars. The cover has an integrated Dacron envelope which causes the cover to lay flat against the main when sailing. When it’s time to replace I will go back to Doyle and see about reusing the battens and cars. Very easy to use while providing good sail shape with all the necessary adjustments one would expect.
 

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Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Lazyjacks and Tides Strong Track = Bliss

I love my lazy jacks, had them for several years with no problems. I keep mine deployed full time. With the Strongtrack the sail drops like a dream. Our sail cover does not have slots and buttons just fine.

I have gotten a batten stuck stuck on the way up maybe five times in the years the LJ’s have been installed.
 

kiwisailor

Member III
Blogs Author
Wondering which system did you choose? Meaning, reading Harken site the AA size should handle our mainsail size. Did you install the AA?
Also, how many ball bearing Battcars did it take? Did you use the slider cars at the intermediate luff positions? What is your stack height? I would like to keep the stack low so as it will fit into the stack pack we just made. Thanks.

The sail has Schaefermarine Battslides installed at the four batton locations. It uses the existing mast slide track and I'm surprised just effective having new slugs in the existing track works. Not sure about stack height, but we did lower the mast slide gate bolt down about 3 inchs so that the 2nd reef ring will reach the gooseneck reefing horn.

I'm also cosnidering installing a mast slide gate to so that the slugs will go all the way down to the gooseneck and reduce the stack height.
 
L

Leslie Newman

Guest
The sail has Schaefermarine Battslides installed at the four batton locations. It uses the existing mast slide track and I'm surprised just effective having new slugs in the existing track works. Not sure about stack height, but we did lower the mast slide gate bolt down about 3 inchs so that the 2nd reef ring will reach the gooseneck reefing horn.

I'm also cosnidering installing a mast slide gate to so that the slugs will go all the way down to the gooseneck and reduce the stack height.

Thank you for the info. I like to keep the stack height as low as possible. Easier to attach the halyard and with this new stack pack, I like the fact it is not real tall at the mast end. I'm thinking of speaking with Harken about using only the slides of the battcar system. Thinking just have that top roller assembly and then all slides. Wondering if worth the trouble to install, whether it would slide better than original system. Probably would and the stack height would be low. But, also wonder if the slides can handle the strain. Many choices regarding a different main slide system.
 

RHenegar

Member I
Rick,

>>>by pulling on the lines to tension the jack it causes those line to pop out of the quick release.

Can you do that from the cockpit? How is it rigged?

I is deployed from the cockpit. The system is rigged like a standard lazyjack with the main lines running through a block about half way up the mast and down through another block back to the cockpit. When the system is stowed the main ring that joins to lines of the lazy jack is attached to a hook on a bungee line attach to the mast. The hook also has a small trip line attached that cause the hook to tilt back and release the ring when upward pressure is applied by pulling on the main lines to deploy. A little hard to describe, but the system is simple and effective. I have attached a crude drawing but I haven't mastered the upload on the site.


View attachment doc02253620180626150902.pdf
 

Emerald

Moderator
With lazy jacks or the Dutchman system is it possible to lower the main without heading into the wind? If yes, how far off the wind do the systems work before you have issues?

Thanks,

Mark

I have a Dutchman, and like it so much I won't have another main without that setup. Yes, you can be off the wind a bit, but the issue is going to be load. At some point, the sail will be trying to fill, and depending on wind speed, it will just have too much load to want to come down. But generically, I've gotten away with a lot of sail drops without having to pay too much attention to heading up fully.

I also had the Dutchman save my bacon on one of the nastiest days I've ever been out in on the Chesapeake. The short story is a wind shift and unexpected jibe in something around 25-30 knots. Broke every slug attaching the main to the mast. The control lines of the Dutchman kept the sail basically in place and under enough control I could get it down. I had a guest with me who knew nothing about sailing. I was basically solo. I hate to think of replaying that scenario without it. Yes, a one off type of situation, but I'll never forget it.
 
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