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kayak vs. dinghy?

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
On my way to/from the rendezvous this year, I'd like to do a little exploring.

And I'm thinking that a kayak might be a more agile way of getting around little coves and things than my normal inflatable dinghy.

Anyone do this? The things I am wondering are, like, how best to stow a kayak while under way? Best types (I'm leaning toward sit-on-top)? Is it hard to get on and off a kayak from a boat?

And, for bonus points.... any recommendations on places that might rent kayaks by the week, in case I want to do this as a try-before-I-buy thing?

Bruce
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Bruce,

Kayaks are not easy to store on a boat, though I have seen them lashed to the stanchions. Have you considered, or do you have, a small outboard to put on your dinghy?
We used to row our 8' fibreglass dinghy, which worked well. My wife wanted to go faster/further so we bought a 1993 2.5 hp mercury for $100.
So there are a few options to consider.
Frank
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Is it hard to get on and off a kayak from a boat

Yes. A sit-on-top is even hard to board from a dock, although quite easy in shallow water.

You might also consider a standup paddleboard. For touring, rather than a workout, get a huge one (more stable at rest).

I have the little pram on deck at the moment, for just such needs. For all the trouble it hardly gets used at all.

In the end I conclude that for me a small inflatable is a jack of all trades, and nothing else justifies itself by use. The Torquedo outboard has proven itself by weight and lack of muss. Never a question of whether it will start after long period of non-use.


 
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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
I have inflatable kayaks and SUPs on board. The kayak is a bit of a disappointment, rigidity-wise, though the new “high-pressure” drop-stitched models may be a substantial improvement. They all fit in the sail locker, although when in frequent use, I store them in a set of Magma Kayak racks that hold them outside the lifelines.
Long-term storage should be inflated or partially inflated. If stored folded, they will develop leaks at the creases.
It’s pretty hard to paddle the SUPS up-wind. Kayak can handle a wider range of conditions. But when it gets too rough for the SUPs, that usually means it’s time to sail anyway.

It’s kind of hard to board any of them, from the boarding ladder, without getting a little wet. You know those YouTube vids where Surfer Dude takes a flying leap off the end of the dock, lands neatly on the SUP, and paddles smoothly away? Yeah, that was Take No. 147.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
A sit-on-top is even hard to board from a dock

Thanks, I've wondered. I used to do a lot of sea-kayaking and like sitting lower, but think it would be *really* difficult to get in and out of a sit-IN kayak from a boat. I've thought about borrowing a sit-on-top to try it at the slip, but with the air temps in the 40s and the water not much warmer... I keep talking myself out of it

I've also thought about getting an outboard for the inflatable, for a couple of reasons... not least of which are I have no place to store a kayak at home, don't really want to leave it on the boat year-round, and... frankly, I don't need two "small craft", so I'd probably end up deciding between kayak and dingy and getting rid of the other. In that context, keeping the dinghy is a lot more useful path. I could find a place for a small outboard much more easily than I could find a spot for a kayak.

...but a kayak is only a few hundred bucks, where a Torqueedo is pushing $2k by the time you get a spare battery. A new name-brand 4-stroke 2.5hp outboard would be less than half that, less still on craigslist if I feel like rolling the dice on a used one. And a small outboard with an integral tank wouldn't require a separate gas tank, hoses, etc. on the flip side, then I'd have to have gasoline on the boat, which I don't love.

Dunno.
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
10' basic kayak

Skim some of the blog posts on You Tube in the 'White Spot Pirates - Untie the Lines' series. Impressive young solo woman who has run that blog for about 3 years - she gets great use out of a basic 1-person 10' kayak (~$450 new currently; Precision Prodigy): e.g., exploration along interesting shorelines, small grocery shopping trips, visiting other anchored boats, to/from shore for clearing in/out, and even occasionally (and carefully) with a second person on board. Her inflatable tender is usually stowed rolled up below decks until she needs to ferry several people or heavy equipment (300' of new chain, etc).

I'm researching a kayak too, to supplement an 8' hard dink on foredeck as main tender.
My research so far:
First, I decided not to consider a sit-on-top. I didn't want stuff I'm carrying to fall overboard (camera, phone, etc). The following is only about sit-inside kayaks that are from the main manufacturers.
Most of the shorter kayaks (read: easier to stow on the foredeck or side-deck, and easier for one person to lift and maneuver) are for white-water paddling. Don't get one of those: they're designed to give high lateral mobility and therefore they don't 'track' at all, which will wear you out on a long straight-line trip to/from shore - especially in any cross-wind or with any chop.
The shorter 'recreational' kayaks (polypropylene rotomolded mostly) are ideal (compared to the touring or ocean style ones). They mostly have a shallow v-hull hull for better tracking, and 1 or 2 chines for lateral stability, and a good amount of freeboard (so you don't need a skirt). In the 10-11' range, rotomolded kayaks will weigh about 42-48lb. Fiberglass ones (like Hurricane Santee) will weight about 38-40lb.
Some of the more more up-scale recreational kayaks have a small retractable keg (e.g., Wilderness Aspire 100 and 105), but others have a moulded non-retractable 'skeg' that helps with tracking just as well (e.g., Wilderness Pungo 100, Precision Prodigy, Old Town Derigo, etc). You might be tempted to save weight and get a Hurricane brand kayak (nice!) - more efficient through the water, but much less load carrying volume and weight capacity, and more fragile on rocky shorelines.
You can buy cheap after-market plastic skid plates to screw into the fixed skeg to save the hull from wear by dragging the boat on shore.
You'll want to go up a bit above the really basic ones (i.e., <~$350) in order to get a well-sealed aft dry storage cavity for your camera, phone, dry clothes, paper documents and groceries, etc)
If you think you'll be in the saddle for an hour or two at times, consider going a little up-market to get one with a comfortable multi-adjustable seat. Some you can tip way back for napping ;-)
Finally, think about your personal dimensions (LOA, beam and gross tonnage) - different brands have cockpits that are wide or narrow, long or short, and they have wide or narrow overall beam (tipping stability) and different overall carrying capacity (you, and your groceries, etc).

It's been fun doing the research on-line, and I visited two local stores recently to see options in person too. I didn't ask about being allowed to test-drive as I'm not quite ready to shell out $500-700 for the ideal one for my needs.
 
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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Dunno... can't seem to recall ever having any sort of problem boarding a sit-on-top from the dock. Certainly no more difficult than boarding a dinghy. Now, handing up a can of gas or something else heavy is another matter. The solution is to tie a lanyard to the object and hoist it up from a stable position on the deck of the boat or the dock.
Most sit-on-tops do have watertight storage compartments and integral lashings to keep gear in the "tank well*." Though my inflatable does not.
I just fear that my boat is too small to store a nice rigid kayak on deck.
The inflatable kayak stashed in the sail locker is the "always available" tender available for daily use. I don't usually take a dinghy along on day sails, but once in a while the unforeseen need arises to get to shore where there is no dock, or to kedge out an anchor, etc.

As spring approaches, most kayak dealers will have events at a park or lake where you can try out several models.

*BTW: Yet another use case for a SOT Kayak is paddling out to a dive site. Supposedly the tank wells were originally designed to hold a SCUBA rig. Sure, the dinghy is often better for this, but many dives in the San Juans end up being drift-dives. You go along with the current and ideally when you pop up, a crew in the dinghy, or the mother ship when possible, has drifted along with your bubbles and is waiting to pick you up. Short-handed, with the Kayak, you can just tow it along with you. But I suppose I'm gonna get too old for that, one of these days.
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi Bruce,

I think your "try-before-I-buy" approach is a good idea. I bought a Point 65 modular tandem sit on top a few years ago. The good is, broken-down it fits in the quarter berth of my 27, it tracks well and the individual parts are fairly light weight. The not so good is, it is a bit of a bear to setup, the connecting joints leak (the seat indentation fills with water) and its tippy. I haven't had it out in 2 years so that might tell you something. The weather is hot here in Santa Cruz CA today, maybe I should take it out....

https://kayaks.point65.com/shop/us/apollo-tandem
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I think your "try-before-I-buy" approach is a good idea.

Thanks, Mark. Too bad you're not closer, I'd love to borrow your unused one for a couple of weeks. Maybe...oh, I don't know... July-ish? ;-)

I looked at the link and was amused to see that (it appears) you can buy a front-section and a back section ($225 each) for $100 less money than the modular single ($550)... which, as far as I can tell is a front section and a back section.

The modular does look interesting. At the very least, it would partially address the "where do I stow it" and "where does it go at the house" problems.

How do the two sections connect? Are they bolted like a sectional dinghy, or just press-fit together, or...?
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi Bruce,

The model I bought is the Apollo. The mating faces on the sections are molded in tongue and groove (ish) profiles. They are held together with ratcheted buckles and straps. There is a sturdier looking more expensive design by Point 65 called Tequila (I think). It has a beefier looking mating setup and it's wider. I assume the width would make it more stable but I don't think it would fit in the quarter berth of my boat - the Apollo model just barely fit. If you want to take a trip down here you are welcome to borrow it ;-).
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Current thinking: (okay, "thinking" might be over-generous...)

Dinghy with oars:
PLUS: I already have it
PLUS: it doesn't need fuel, oil, etc
PLUS: can carry people and stuff
MINUS: facing backwards while rowing (sub-optimal for "exploring")

Kayak
PLUS: padding is more fun that rowing
PLUS: facing forward
PLUS: kayaks glide and track better (especially in wind and chop) than the dinghy
MINUS: not easy to stow on the boat
MINUS: not easy to get onto/off from the boat
MINUS: to carry people and stuff, would have to ALSO bring dinghy

Dinghy with outboard:
PLUS: no rowing, but rowing still an option if needed
PLUS: can carry people and stuff with motor or without
PLUS: can face forward while putting about
MINUS: need to carry gasoline
MINUS: noise, exhaust, maintenance, oil...
PLUS?: might present other upsides (such as, ability to tow the Ericson if I need to?)

At the moment (this is a fluid situation!) I'm looking at low-power gas outboards. Primarily ones with integral fuel-tank and manageable weight. Honda 2.3, Merc/Nissan/Tohatsu 2.5 or 3.5

So the next round of questions is... anyone have recommendations in this class? My main premise is that if it isn't easy to set up and use I probably won't use it, so the Honda (at 29 pounds, and air-cooled) is interesting. But the Merc 2.5 and 3.5 are basically the same weight (38 pounds), and having 40% more power for about $150 more is... also interesting. I'm not sure why, really, but... it is.

Open to input/experiences/recommendation. Or derision, where warranted. (grin)

Bruce
 
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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
This is the Yak Rack I have now: I've sailed with it that way a couple of times, and it hasn't really interfered, but there's just no way a 14-foot kayak - or even a 10-footer - doesn't look ungainly, suckered onto a 29-foot boat. Quite easy to load & unload with the spin halyard. Not really difficult even with just the boats' painter. If I were under 30, I probably wouldn't think twice about sticking with just a kayak for a tender.
ce1791de4e9ef0be9cacd55fdd24088e.jpg

Re: Outboards. I've got a little 3HP with integral fuel tank. Rides quite easily on the stern rail, but unless you have strong help, probably still best with an engine hoist/davit of some sort. OK for pushing the Zodiac around in a harbor, but not what you'd want for taking off on a day trip. Also the one I have has no transmission, so as soon as you start it, it's on. And there's no reverse. Also works on the Walker Bay 8, though technically a tad too much power. WB8 doesn't exactly plane under power... the bottom just sort of ripples and flexes in a rather disturbing way, so I guess it's not really a "rigid" dinghy after all.

Currently negotiating on a Johnson (Suzuki) 9.9HP 4-stroke. More what the Zodiac really needs. Con: HEAVY. I'm not sure 97 extra pounds will ride on the stern rail very well, or where else it could go. Pro: Uses the same fuel as the Atomic 4. No extra fuel or oil to carry. i.e. the dinghy fuel tank could be an emergency extra fuel tank for the main engine. Can change-up to 15HP just by switching carburetors.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
If motor, I really like being able to tie the dinghy at the stern and lift my 28 lb. 2.5 hp motor from the stern rail into the dinghy. I would not be able to lift a 40 lb. motor and keep my balance at my age. Also, it has a self contained gas tank and I can fit an extra 1 gallon gas tank into my anchor locker along with my anchor and rode, so it's not in the cabin or locker near the engine.
Frank
 
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GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
If motor, I really like being able to tie the dinghy at the stern and lift my 28 lb. 2.5 hp motor from the stern rail into the dinghy. I would not be able to lift a 40 lb. motor and keep my balance at my age. Also, it has a self contained gas tank and I can fit an extra 1 gallon gas tank into my anchor locker along with my anchor and rode, so it's not in the cabin or locker near the engine.
Frank

I'm with you Frank, a light 2.5hp and a gallon of spare gas in the anchor locker. I lower the motor into the dinghy from the lifeline gate though, with the dinghy tied alongside.

Actually I guess my old Honda is a 2 HP, but it works for me with an Achilles Lex96. I seem to be able to row the Achilles pretty well too.
 
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fool

Member III
I like BGary's approach and experimented with thoughtlessness.

Apex 8'6" RIP with Tohatsu 6hp 4 stroke.

Pro: Can tow other disabled boats.
Pro: Can carry more stuff than belongs on a boat.
Pro: Can land on beaches without rubbing the bottom off (much).
Pro: Can be rowed, but why bother when if you sit in the bow you might be able to plane
Neutral: Purchased both used so not out of pocket too much
Con: Purchased davits to hoist the damned thing out of the water to avoid growing salad on the bottom, expensive.
Con: Motoring under the marina gangway can be done if you don't hit the prop on the rocks, carry extra cotter pins under the cover and don't forget they're there.

Redcrest inflatable with motor mount and 2.5 hp 4 stroke Lehr propane

Pro: Foldable, stowable and storable, or the Redcrest is anyway. Fits in lazarette, or would if the lazarette weren't used for all the other things brought in by the Apex.
Pro: Fits in the Apex.
Pro: Stable with wood floor installed, can carry passengers and gear.
Pro: Not very fast but reliable. Can be rowed or motored. Neither on plane.
Con: Wouldn't want to go under the marina gangway without malice and forethought. Drifting seems to be the rule of the day.
Con: The Lehr runs on a 1 lb. propane tank that lasts about an hour, although it can be hooked up to a bbq sized tank if you wanted to.
Con: Without the wood floor it is like rowing a waterbed.
Con: The Lehr and most small outboards do not have reverse unless you turn the motor all the way around. This gives the air cooled Honda an advantage as it doesn't spit raw water cooling into the vessel when trying to...drift...in reverse. The Lehr is raw water cooled.

Mid-80's Folboat Kayak, aluminum frame with hypalon and canvas cover - for sale...

Pro: Super stable once you are in it. I've boarded many times from the dock without much wetness or cursing.
Pro: Tracks really well. Did I mention it is super stable? Fun, fun, fun.
Pro: Goes under marina gangways all day long and then goes back for more. If you want to get places other boats can't go, get wet, and get a kayak.
Pro: Weighs about 40 lbs. with a boatload of floatation accessories, stows in the lazarette, Apex or van when all other storage areas are full.
Neutral: Requires some assembly and disassembly, which can or cannot be entertaining depending on if you need to go anywhere fast.
Con: I have no clue how I'd get into it from the boat. Seems to me the simplest way would be to fall in, get in, and eskimo roll upside right.

Did I mention it is also for sale?

Max
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
That's one criterion I hadn't considered... SUP glides under the marina walkway just fine*, operator has to stroke, then duck quickly.

* Unless the skeg gets caught in the masses of milfoil that grow back there in the summer.
 
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