New Holding Tank on '89 38-200?

After a fairly smelly cruise this summer on my 1989 E38-200, I was thinking about replacing the waste hoses. But to do that on my boat requires removing or at least unmounting the holding tank. If I am going to go through all that trouble I thought I would replace the original Ronco tank (#B187) with something a bit larger than the 20 to 25 gallons I now have.

Any 38-200 owners out there been through this? Any advice on alternate tanks for that location?

holding tank replacement

I went throught this same scenario 2 seasons ago on our 32-200. I had to remove the shelf in the locker (plus all the stuff in there) to be able to get at the holding tank and hoses. I also thought of replacing the (13-15 gallon) holding tank with a new one, but after washing it out with clorox and letting it air out for awhile, the tank was fine, and putting new hoses in made a world of difference in the head. Ronco has a pretty large line of tanks, and if nothing else, can probably make one to fit if you need more capacity. Their phone # is: 714-259-1285, web address is: www.ronco-plastics.com
Good luck.
Clayton

holding tank hose location

My 1986 38-200 did not come with a holding tank since I bought it used in the BVIs. I have two questions: Do all 38-200's have a through hull fitting in place, whether or not they have the holding tank (I hope so since I'd like to install a holding tank). And I do already have a Y valve under the sink, but I don't know where or how to get the holding tank hose to it.

Thanks in advance for this info.

Frank Z.

My 89 E38-200 has several t-hulls in the head area. One for a sink drain, one for the head intake, one for direct discharge ( not legal for us), and one for pumping out the holding tank. Not to mention a y valve and way to much hose. This is the factory system to my knowledge. This winter I plan to remove all the hoses. Eliminate the y valve and run the discharge directly to the tank. Then run new hose from the tank to the pump, and from the pump to the t-hull. This way discharge can only go to the tank where it can be pumped out at the marina or if I am offshore via the manual pump out. I am considering an electric macerator pump for discharge but it will be used so infrequently that I doubt I will bother. I have heard of these macerator pumps getting stuck from lack of use and internal corroision. My goal is to eliminate as much hose as possible and make the system simpler. In the spring I will probably glass up the old t-hull that was for direct discharge. One less hole in the boat... FWIW I have found the 20-25 gallon tank more than adequate size for my wife and I cruising the Chesapeake. We do need to pump it out about once a week, but we typically will stop someplace that has this service once a week anyway.

Ted,

I replaced the Whale pump that came on Journey with a macerator pump and had the problem you mentioned. I used the pump very infrequently and the impeller would get stuck and need to be freed with a slotted screwdriver. That was very difficult in the only location I could find for the pump. After a few cycles I think the impeller became brittle and would not self prime. Went back to the Whale with the Nitrile parts and all is good.

Ray Rhode
S/Y Journey
E35-III, #189

Holding tank pump.....

They cost more but if you can spring for it go with a diaphram pump like the one Sealand makes. It s the same one used for vacu-flush systems. Jabsco and Whale make them too. Since they are diaphram type there is no water in contact with the metal parts so no corrosion. They have tremendous power and wont clog or fail to prime. Im willing to pay more to avoid having to tear open any of the head system....

Way too complicated!

Ted's description of his factory system is interesting, as I didn't realize that there even was an option for a Y valve and direct overboard discharge.

My system went from the head to the holding tank in the lazarette, then one discharge went to the deck, while the other went back to the head Whale Gusher pump, and then to a through hull. Here in the Great Lakes that isn't a legal set up, so the dealer put a cap on the through hull, and a plug on the end of the hose leading from the pump. Adding a Y valve and direct overboard discharge upstream of all this would be a nice option for offshore, but the number of hoses under the galley sink must be amazing.

I would be interested to see what others think of the gusher pump in the head, as in my case I found that most of the head odor was coming from inside the pump. Even without the pump having an output, the input was still hooked up to a tank discharge, and waste could slosh around and get inside the pump housing. When I remove the pump altogether (by cutting off the discharge hose to the head at two feet and putting a plug in it) my head odor problem was solved.

Which would suggest to me that these things will always be a source of odor, even if you use them regularly.

In Ted's case I think installing my original system would make sense for his situation, but here is a suggestion. See about mounting the gusher pump in the lazarette if you can. That way the odor would be contained to the lazarette (where the holding tank is already) and the hose run inside the head would be all downhill to the through hull, so no waste would would be caught there.

By the way, since we're talking heads and odor, here are a couple of things that worked for me. First we all know that we should replace the hose every few seasons to prevent odor permeation. I wouldn't mind doing that except that on the 38 the only way I could see to replace the hose was to practically dismantle the head and shower compartment. As a stop gap measure I bought some aluminum tape, the type that is sold for duct work. Wrapping that tape around the portion of the hose that was inside the head compartment made quite a difference in the odor, which apparently can't get through the aluminum.

The other suggestion is to use Odorlos head chemical. This stuff really works, as it is essentially sodium nitrate (or maybe nitrite, not sure...) which provides an oxygen source to the waste, which in turn prevents the build up of anearobic (the smelly kind) of bacteria. We were always trying to get our 25 gallon tank to last as long as possible, so we didn't flush the line after each use - which quickly leads to an odor problem in the hose. But if you put a capfull of Odorlos in with each "deposit" there seems to be no odor at all. Amazing stuff.

Holding Tank on 38-200

Steve -
I had the identical setup, with the hose from the pump having a plug in it and laying along the hull. That section of hose and the pump were the nasty source of the odor, since they were slightly downhill of the bottom of the holding tank. I did the same as you and removed them, and bought a plug for the outlet at the bottom of the tank, leaving only the deck pumpout hose. Now I just need to find a creative way to fill the holes where the pump was mounted in the head...
Clayton

Use black rubber or laminate

I too wondered about how to fill in the hole from the pump. In the end I decided that nothing I did would look good, so I left the outside black pump ring mounted in place, and simply filled in the hole with something black. I happened to have some thick rubber gasket sheeting that I cut to the correct size, and it actually looked fine. It is obvious that something used to be there, but it at least isn't a hole, or a poorly done gel coat patch.

Best would of course be to patch the gel coat, but I have never developed that skill of perfectly matching the color.

Louvered vents,

On my E29 I had several holes that needed covering. I went to a marine supply store looking around. I found several SS louvered vent covers. They cover the holes and it looks like they were meant to be there!
Art M.

Louvered vents

That's an excellent idea, Art. Thanks!
Clayton

Louvered vents (contd.)

I had several areas that had little or no ventilation and you could tell every time you opened a storage area. Under the V-berth, under the settees, etc. I used the 4" vents in these areas and it cut down on the moldy/mildewy smell.
Art M.

Holding tank thread

Thanks for all the great info on holding tanks. For some reason, there were no private messages listed so I didn't know anyone had responded. Apologies for late response.

Does anybody have advice about how to get to the Y valve under the sink from the starboard lazarette, which is where I believe I should install the holding tank?

fz