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chainplate repair

Hanktoo

Member III
Planning on taking a look at the port side chainplate. I want to leave the mast up (deck stepped) so I will loosen the opposing side and rig a halyard on port side. Two questions, 1) do I also back off on the lowers and 2) do I back off on the backstay or leave it as is? Boat is a 35-2
Wish me luck
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
For what it's worth, that's what I would do. Loosen other stays as needed.

Don't go sailing till finished.:)
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Planning on taking a look at the port side chainplate. I want to leave the mast up (deck stepped) so I will loosen the opposing side and rig a halyard on port side. Two questions, 1) do I also back off on the lowers and 2) do I back off on the backstay or leave it as is? Boat is a 35-2
Wish me luck

Just curious, is it an issue with the metal chain plate or the surrounding wood bulkhead area for you?

Closer inspection of the chain plates on our E32-2 when we replaced ALL of the bulkheads showed some hairline fracturing from a lightning strike years back on the main chain plates.

While the metal still seemed fine, a metallurgist engineer at our club recommended changing them out (which we did). ...We made templates, dimensioned and ordered them through Garhauer Marine. His pricing was more than fair and the quality was incredible! Garhauer also uses water jet cutting which doesn't heat the metal up reducing the potential for loss of metal strength. ...They were polished so well - they look like they are chrome plated!!

ALSO: Should you be replacing the bulkhead wood, first take photos, measurements and make marks of where/how your current chain plate fits. It sure makes it much easier to have it line up like the original when putting it all back together.

GOOD LUCK!! :egrin:
 
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Hanktoo

Member III
Boat has been on the hard for over a year. On my most recent visit to check on her I noticed some bubbling of the veneer along the wood coverplate. I also was never real happy with the way the wood looked on the other side in the head. Everything lower down was fine in the past. Just want to get in there and check it out. I suspect these are the original chainplates.
 

garryh

Member III
if you are just 'taking a look' you do not need to do anything but pull the access covers. But if taking a look is a machine shop inspection (recommended) then yes of course you need to slacken the rig. I would also use a halyard from the masthead as an ancillary support on the 'removed' side. If the chainplates are original, it is just a good idea and money well spent to replace them. They do in fact fatigue, succumb to crevice corrosion, and fail unpredictably sometimes.
You will be a very fortunate person indeed if you do not find bulkhead rot and core rot unless this has been previously addressed. I was where you are last Spring... I have the same boat. I knew the bulkhead was rotted to some extent but difficult to determine how much since concealed by the glass tabbing so just decided to get it done. When I tore it all apart to access the bulkhead and removed the (stbd) chainplate I could see that the deck core was simply no longer there. So then it became a deck recore job as well as a bulkhead job (and unfortunately still in progress : | Make sure you (or someone experienced) takes a look at the bulkhead and deck core... these boats are notorious for this damage. When I finish the recore job I will install solid fg laminate anywhere there are deck penetrations to eliminate any future wet deck issues. I will also completely seal the bulkhead with epoxy and a thin covering of glass where it is not visible.
The only good news is that when I took in the old chainplate for duplication, the shop guy told me there was no way it was original (40 years old), appeared to be water jet or laser cut, and was in good condition. One less job and expense.
If you do have to replace the chainplate, keep the old one, chop off the top 3 inches or so, and use it as a backing plate for the new one. I am going to fabricate one when I reinstall my newish chainplate.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Boat has been on the hard for over a year. On my most recent visit to check on her I noticed some bubbling of the veneer along the wood cover plate. I also was never real happy with the way the wood looked on the other side in the head. Everything lower down was fine in the past. Just want to get in there and check it out. I suspect these are the original chain plates.

The cover plate, if similar to our 32, is merely cosmetic and should remove without too much fuss. If "bubbling" perhaps you have a slight deck leak from over the years. THAT certainly is worth the time and effort of checking everything out for sure.

Ours started out with the starboard lower front chain plate. We noticed a little water damage on the V-berth bulkhead inside the hanging locker. The V-berth side was hidden by the built in storage on the head liner. We decided to go ahead and replace the whole bulkhead instead of just splicing new wood in. THAT started the "Never Ending Project" for us!!

The common term became "While we are at it" and next thing I know, below decks looked like a bowling alley with ALL bulkheads being replaced not to mention rewiring the boat, installing new plumbing throughout and replacing vinyl side liners and on and on and on. This time, we went with mahogany veneered marine plywood plus over drilled all deck fittings and back filling with solid resin so all holes do not leak into deck coring. We also epoxied the chain plate holes in the wood to prevent any moisture from seeping in as well. (Hope this doesn't discourage or overwhelm you.)

Sure was a LOT OF TIME & WORK - but looking back (now that most of it is all done) we're glad we've gone the whole route. (I think I've posted some photos in the past - it's been awhile.)

-kerry
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
if you are just 'taking a look' you do not need to do anything but pull the access covers. But if taking a look is a machine shop inspection (recommended) then yes of course you need to slacken the rig. I would also use a halyard from the masthead as an ancillary support on the 'removed' side. If the chainplates are original, it is just a good idea and money well spent to replace them. They do in fact fatigue, succumb to crevice corrosion, and fail unpredictably sometimes.
You will be a very fortunate person indeed if you do not find bulkhead rot and core rot unless this has been previously addressed. I was where you are last Spring... I have the same boat. I knew the bulkhead was rotted to some extent but difficult to determine how much since concealed by the glass tabbing so just decided to get it done. When I tore it all apart to access the bulkhead and removed the (stbd) chainplate I could see that the deck core was simply no longer there. So then it became a deck recore job as well as a bulkhead job (and unfortunately still in progress : | Make sure you (or someone experienced) takes a look at the bulkhead and deck core... these boats are notorious for this damage. When I finish the recore job I will install solid fg laminate anywhere there are deck penetrations to eliminate any future wet deck issues. I will also completely seal the bulkhead with epoxy and a thin covering of glass where it is not visible.
The only good news is that when I took in the old chainplate for duplication, the shop guy told me there was no way it was original (40 years old), appeared to be water jet or laser cut, and was in good condition. One less job and expense.
If you do have to replace the chainplate, keep the old one, chop off the top 3 inches or so, and use it as a backing plate for the new one. I am going to fabricate one when I reinstall my newish chainplate.

Hi Gary,

Great advice for him! ...Sounds like our projects have paralleled quite a bit! You're correct! The boats of our vintage (even today) using balsa core reinforcement are susceptible to serious issues of structural integrity once the balsa gets wet over and over and begins to dry rot.

Best thing to do is over-sizing all deck fitting holes, filling with solid resin and then re-drilling

Deck wise, we redid our main salon hatch area as well as in front of the companion way. Our fore deck was fine but the anchor locker area (due to bow pulpit stanchions & anchor chain hawser opening was shot. My son found a somewhat newer product instead of the balsa core. It's a very dense 1/2" thick (same as the balsa core) foam that is closed cell and will not saturate should water invade.

This spring we will get under the cockpit sole and replace an area around where the tiller comes up through it. We also glassed in this foam under the winches on the cabin top after grinding out the old balsa core in the little bulkhead storage compartments.

Like you....STILL working away at it years later! :)
 

garryh

Member III
hey Kerry..... yes, misery does love company!
It can be literally heartbreaking getting into some of this substantial work only to find a substantial project needing doing before you can even get to it... then another even before that one. Chainplates come well after a rotted bulkhead and rotted decks in the chainplate areas. When does the fun start..??
But- these jobs are important and it is irresponsible not to address them... not only for the longevity and value of the boat but for the safety of the crew. There is one thread on here with a photo of a cracked main chainplate at deck level and the OP noticed it just in time and figured he was maybe one tack away from a dismasting. And a dismasting in a (very probably) lumpy sea or storm could ruin your whole day.
Also definitely a complex when you get into the 'while we're at it' mindset. My boat interior is thickly covered with FG grinding dust and it is very ugly. It will be a major clean-up job, so 'while I am at it', why not cut out the cabin sole and clean out 40 years of greasy grunge and reinstall with proper bilge access plates. The access to the bilge in these boats is limited to non-existent and very poorly designed. Then I have some opening ports I have picked up to install while I am at it... and some salvaged hatches that I would love to install while I am at it.
etc etc : |
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Dust Trapping

GarryH, loved the (rueful) comment about fiberglass dust...

While I did not get a T shirt, I have been there and done that.

One suggestion from my project of sanding down and doing some prep work with the right-angle grinder is to use a shop vac to catch the material as it flies off the disk.
I had to strip and prep a good-sized area under a settee for more strength for new water tank install.

This involved laying in a couple layers of roving and glassing the bottom a bit better to the bulkheads.

I put a cardboard "shield" on the end of the 3" hose, cut out to fit tightly around the hose end. With this taped down in front of the out-fly side of the disc, the howling vac caught way over 90% of the material as it was generated.

You do kind of need ear protection as well as eye protection!
:)
 

Hanktoo

Member III
thanks for all the suggestions and advice. Won't be able to get to this until mid-April. I do plan to remove the chainplate and re-bed it and raise that area and seal it to prevent future intrusion. As I said, what I have seen of the lower part of the bulkhead appears solid so I am cautiously optimistic.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
hey Kerry..... yes, misery does love company!
It can be literally heartbreaking getting into some of this substantial work only to find a substantial project needing doing before you can even get to it... then another even before that one. Chainplates come well after a rotted bulkhead and rotted decks in the chainplate areas. When does the fun start..??
But- these jobs are important and it is irresponsible not to address them... not only for the longevity and value of the boat but for the safety of the crew. There is one thread on here with a photo of a cracked main chainplate at deck level and the OP noticed it just in time and figured he was maybe one tack away from a dismasting. And a dismasting in a (very probably) lumpy sea or storm could ruin your whole day.
Also definitely a complex when you get into the 'while we're at it' mindset. My boat interior is thickly covered with FG grinding dust and it is very ugly. It will be a major clean-up job, so 'while I am at it', why not cut out the cabin sole and clean out 40 years of greasy grunge and reinstall with proper bilge access plates. The access to the bilge in these boats is limited to non-existent and very poorly designed. Then I have some opening ports I have picked up to install while I am at it... and some salvaged hatches that I would love to install while I am at it.
etc etc : |


Great to hear others are doing what we are doing and have done. Like you say, staying on top of maintenance is more an issue of safety and, like flying, there's never room for an "Ohhh SCHYTT" at the worst possible time. The infamous "While we're at it" sure does cause a lot of headaches but the rewards of doing things right certainly overpower NOT doing those projects. We've replaced the main salon hatch, built a sea hood for the companion way, rebuilt the companionway hatch re-cored some cabin top areas and completely rebuilt all the ports. (NEVER Ending for sure!:newwink:)

We store our boat every fall and remove the mast. This has always given the opportunity to check the rigging aloft more closely.

I don't even want to talk about "Clean Up" yet! :(:scared: We've tried to keep it as clean as we can - BUT!!!!

I put in another bilge access just forward of the one in the galley. This allows access to the deepest part of the bilge where my pump(s) are located. The elongated one really never got used over the years other than for inspections. I'll send you a photo of what I did when I get back up North again.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
hey Kerry..... yes, misery does love company!
It can be literally heartbreaking getting into some of this substantial work only to find a substantial project needing doing before you can even get to it... then another even before that one. Chainplates come well after a rotted bulkhead and rotted decks in the chainplate areas. When does the fun start..??
But- these jobs are important and it is irresponsible not to address them... not only for the longevity and value of the boat but for the safety of the crew. There is one thread on here with a photo of a cracked main chainplate at deck level and the OP noticed it just in time and figured he was maybe one tack away from a dismasting. And a dismasting in a (very probably) lumpy sea or storm could ruin your whole day.
Also definitely a complex when you get into the 'while we're at it' mindset. My boat interior is thickly covered with FG grinding dust and it is very ugly. It will be a major clean-up job, so 'while I am at it', why not cut out the cabin sole and clean out 40 years of greasy grunge and reinstall with proper bilge access plates. The access to the bilge in these boats is limited to non-existent and very poorly designed. Then I have some opening ports I have picked up to install while I am at it... and some salvaged hatches that I would love to install while I am at it.
etc etc : |

...Found the photos of the additional bilge access I installed. This one allows me to get directly to the lowest part of the bilge where the pump is located. (I'm also ready to install one more electric pump with an auto switch sitting slightly higher than the primary one. There will also be a cockpit light that goes on if this secondary pump goes on.

Of course we have a manual backup system plus a bucket. (The bucket is the BEST system available when in the hands of a scared sailor!;))

(For reference, you can see the elongated bilge access directly above the new one plus the base of the main salon table to the top left of the one photo.)

Additional Bilge Access2.jpgAdditional Bilge Access1.jpg
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
I remember when Cary was posting here about these projects - it sounded like the two of you were handy as hell and having a good time making a mess together (and then racing the heck out of the boat).

I did the cockpit sole repair a while ago, imy first recoring project (ours, actually; my longsuffering boat partner was heavily involved too). It turned out pretty well, all considering, and was slightly complicated by the angled penetration of the rudderstock and the presence of two cockpit drains and a fuel fill. I'm a huge fan of the use of G10 as the top skin replacement, and the 1/2" closed-cell foam replacement core that Cary used.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-E32-cockpit-core-repair-an-illustrated-guide

My boat has never had a bilge pump in the lower bilge where yours is. It hasn't REALLY needed it as the only significant water intrusion has ever been in the engine bilge, separate from the lower bilge, where a pump lives and discharges aft under the transom. It's a pretty long run from the pump to the discharge and several cups of water always drain back into the bilge after the pump runs.

Where does your lower bilge pump discharge?
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
I remember when Cary was posting here about these projects - it sounded like the two of you were handy as hell and having a good time making a mess together (and then racing the heck out of the boat).

I did the cockpit sole repair a while ago, imy first recoring project (ours, actually; my longsuffering boat partner was heavily involved too). It turned out pretty well, all considering, and was slightly complicated by the angled penetration of the rudderstock and the presence of two cockpit drains and a fuel fill. I'm a huge fan of the use of G10 as the top skin replacement, and the 1/2" closed-cell foam replacement core that Cary used.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-E32-cockpit-core-repair-an-illustrated-guide

My boat has never had a bilge pump in the lower bilge where yours is. It hasn't REALLY needed it as the only significant water intrusion has ever been in the engine bilge, separate from the lower bilge, where a pump lives and discharges aft under the transom. It's a pretty long run from the pump to the discharge and several cups of water always drain back into the bilge after the pump runs.

Where does your lower bilge pump discharge?

The pump is only about a foot or so further forward from where it was originally from the factory installation.

You're right the back drain from the hose (which empties out under the transom) has always let an aggravating small amount of water run back down into the bilge. I'm going to install a check valve this spring to resolve that issue. In my bilge there was always a small amount of water at the lowest point just forward of the original pump location. Water that came in drained down from the rudder seal and from the prop shaft stuffing box. (That ended when we installed a last drop shaft seal.) I had a rubber O-ring made up at the local hardware store, coated it generously with a waterproof grease and it too solved the leak problem.

Yep, Cary has been a real worker on so many of the projects. He's become the club's official go-to-guy for most boat related issues anymore :newwink: I'll tell him you said hello!
 

garryh

Member III
major thread drift : )
To the OP... I have attached a pic of a damaged chainplate fitting on a 35-2 posted on here some time ago, I could not find the thread but I did save the pic as a sober reminder. The owner noticed it just in time before switching tacks and may have lost his entire rig. These critical pieces of stuff takes tremendous innumerable cyclical loads and are not 'forever'... they eventually succumb to work hardening, fatigue, crevice corrosion etc. At the very least, dye testing should be performed but this will not identify work hardening.If you are planning on keeping the boat a while, it is (very little) money well spend to have new chainplates fabricated if you are going to all the trouble of accessing them and removing them. It is cheap insurance and cheap peace of mind.
Regarding bulkheads, once you have the chainplate removed, take a good look at the core in the exposed cavity. If there is damage to the core above the chainplate, it is almost a certainty that you have at least some rot damage to the bulkhead. I have attached pics from my job(s)-in-progress... you can see that there is just air where the core should be. Also, in the bulkhead pic, when I removed the chainplate I could see rot above it and rot below it. The part in the middle is concealed by the tabbing but there MUST be at least some rot in the middle section as well. I had to make the very painful decision to replace it (as well as most of the core on the stbd side). The thought of it pulling right out of the deck scares me way too much.
I am sure the port side will be similar when I get to it.
 

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garryh

Member III
Loren, I like the cardboard shield idea with good suction on the other side. The repairs this time around were far too extensive to be able to contain the dust... grinding out all the bulkhead tabbing would be nigh on impossible to contain. I am also gutting the vee berth to install new tanks so it was a hopeless cause. But I will use that idea next time around in the hopes of lessening the clean up.
What I did do was use the blower fan/motor from a replaced home furnace, attached it to a plywood plate sitting atop the main salon hatch... this worked well in removing a lot of the airborne dust. Using this with a large duct attached to a cardboard shield may work well.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
major thread drift : )
To the OP... I have attached a pic of a damaged chainplate fitting on a 35-2 posted on here some time ago, I could not find the thread but I did save the pic as a sober reminder. The owner noticed it just in time before switching tacks and may have lost his entire rig. These critical pieces of stuff takes tremendous innumerable cyclical loads and are not 'forever'... they eventually succumb to work hardening, fatigue, crevice corrosion etc. At the very least, dye testing should be performed but this will not identify work hardening.If you are planning on keeping the boat a while, it is (very little) money well spend to have new chainplates fabricated if you are going to all the trouble of accessing them and removing them. It is cheap insurance and cheap peace of mind.
Regarding bulkheads, once you have the chainplate removed, take a good look at the core in the exposed cavity. If there is damage to the core above the chainplate, it is almost a certainty that you have at least some rot damage to the bulkhead. I have attached pics from my job(s)-in-progress... you can see that there is just air where the core should be. Also, in the bulkhead pic, when I removed the chainplate I could see rot above it and rot below it. The part in the middle is concealed by the tabbing but there MUST be at least some rot in the middle section as well. I had to make the very painful decision to replace it (as well as most of the core on the stbd side). The thought of it pulling right out of the deck scares me way too much.
I am sure the port side will be similar when I get to it.



Woah!! ...That first photo is a real eye opener!! :scared: The others of your own project brings back similar memories for sure!

We started with the most versatile, and most often used, "At Hand" tool in our inventory - the galley ICE PICK. With just a few pokes around the suspected chainplate, we confirmed our worst fears like you as well - DRY ROT! Not quite as extensive as yours and only around a lower shroud but nevertheless - DRY ROT!

Your point of dye testing is more than prudent and wise given the loads our boats are subjected to over time (especially if/when racing them). I knew one skipper who would rather lose a mast than lose a race (so as I was told later) after we were side by side on a race course during an approaching storm. I figured his extensive experience knew when to shorten sail VS my novice stage at it a very long time ago. From this, I learned TWO important lessons: Make your OWN choices on what to do when sailing and always insure your vessel is in top shape/condition for what you will sail her into and through. My boat was basically brand new but had she not been, who knows what could have happened!!??? (We ALL know "Murphy" but O'Toole is the one to watch out for!!. O'Toole said, "Murphy was an OPTIMIST! ;)")

After our boat took a direct lightning strike in a marina years back (1989???); we sailed her for several years more and luckily with no problems. When we recently went through replacing all the bulkheads and carefully inspecting the chainplates, we found hairline cracking in a crazed pattern from the encountered lightning strikes. In a discussion with a fellow sailor who is an engineer in metallurgy, he simply said, "It's apart - DO IT ...and sleep well at night." Again - COMMON SENSE should always prevail confirming the rule; "While We Are At It!"

To this day I/we shudder to think of what could have happened on a Gulf Stream crossing to the Bahamas or even one of our Trans-Erie Races that can easily equal the Atlantic in being NASTY! (More shipwrecks in Lake Erie than the rest of the Great Lakes! :0)

Here's a photo of the old main chainplates. Not the best photo but you can kind of see the crazing cracks about half way down around the fourth or fifth bulkhead mounts.

E32 MkII Chainplates.jpg
 

Hanktoo

Member III
Help

Well I finally got down to tackling this job. While the wood seems solid and is not wet, as you can see in the picture there is some cracking there. I want to take out that sliding door cabinet to provide more access for repairs. I started to remove it but it is a bear. I removed the screws that are on the top shelf (put in at reverse angle so it must have been before the deck was on). I can see some screws underneath behind the sink I haven't gotten to those yet. But this thing doesn't seem like it is going to want to budge with the top out it is rock solid. I don't see any screws on either side. Has anyone taken this out and knows how it comes out? Please respond before i use my usual method and get a bigger hammer.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Try a right angle driver, maybe

I have used a Stanley version of this little "offset" driver for tight spaces, for 20 years.
Very helpful when working back under the deck or under trims that were installed sequentially.
(and then, EY had put teak bungs over the screw heads as well... where no one was ever likely to see them. Oh my.)

https://www.whiteheadindustrial.com..._4wLbt7NRKIdu0fCMZOAtz1Iv4EbkgQaAn8EEALw_wcB#
 
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