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Thread: Winch Rebuild: "Barient" Replacement Pawls from Lewmar--just say NO!

  1. #1
    Sustaining Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Winch Rebuild: "Barient" Replacement Pawls from Lewmar--just say NO!

    I went to rebuild two of my '85 Barient winches (size 17-ST and 18). These things are built like tanks. The old grease inside was so dry I had to scrape it off with plastic blades. It reminded me of crayon wax. The old pawls weren't in too bad a shape, but one of the springs was jammed/bent from being installed improperly. I figured since I had them apart I would replace the pawls and springs.

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ID:	23688 Barient 17 ST Winch


    Several merchants (I used West Marine and Fisheries Supply) offer so called "Barient replacement" parts or kits (packaged by Lewmar) wherein pawls and springs can be purchased either separately or in sets. I was astonished at the poor manufacturing quality of these "Barient" replacement pawls. They were so bad, I inspected two more lots to see if I could find any that were better. I looked at 4 different packages from 2 different vendors--they all had the same poor quality.

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    I'm not knocking Lewmar, as the "Lewmar" replacement pawls for their own winches seem to be very high quality. They are, unfortunately about 3/32" shorter than the Barient pawls, so I didn't want to use them. Ditto for Harken pawls.

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ID:	23687 Lewmar (bottom) vs original Barient pawl and spring.

    As for springs, all 3 brands appear similar, but the Lewmar springs have two bent tails, while the Barient has one straight and one bent tail. Minor, but will it make a difference? Harken springs appear to be of slightly smaller gauge wire, and have only one winding in the circular spring while the Barient springs have two windings.

    In the end, I'm re-using my original pawls and going with Barient replacement springs (packaged by Lewmar, bought at WM). There goes another 5 hours of looking for the right parts......
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  2. #2
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    I'm with you on the pawls. Also, the WM springs fit Barients fine in my experience.

    Usually all required is a good cleaning, and as you say old grease on the pawls requires quite a lot of work to get off, but the result is "like new" operation.

    We're supposed to keep grease away from the pawls, and use only light oil there.

    Dark aluminum drums heat like frying pans in summer sun, which turns grease to sludge and then ear wax and then macadam.

    Winch covers slow that process down, allegedly.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
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  3. #3
    Innocent Bystander tenders's Avatar
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    A soak in diesel dissolves the grease without scraping.
    1969 Ericson 32 #112 • Atomic Four
    City Island, NYC
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    Hair by Mr. Gigi

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    Principal Partner GrandpaSteve's Avatar
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    Kerosene works well if you happen to have that. I used a pan of kerosene, a stiff brush, and a toothbrush to make quick work of cleaning old grease from my winches.

    I keep kero for a great kerosene space heater we bought for Y2K prep and never needed, the heat feels great on achy joints though so we use it on long winter days.
    1987 E32-III "Glory Days"
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    Slip in Rock Hall MD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenders View Post
    A soak in diesel dissolves the grease without scraping.
    Second that. And since diesel is essentially oil it is easy on hands. More aggressive solvents may work faster but than you need to wear gloves. So it is diesel and a bunch of pointy qtips for me.
    Still Crazy, E32-3, 1987

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    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    Here is still more for anybody doing this for the first time:

    http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...-Winch-Service
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
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    Sustaining Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    I used paint thinner as a solvent. It worked fine. My garage is being re-built so I did most of the scrubbing in my bathtub. The mild odor of thinner was pretty bearable indoors.

    A 1 gal paint can is a convenient container to soak the parts in.
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 02-12-2018 at 05:18 PM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

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    Winch Rebuild: "Barient" Replacement Pawls from Lewmar--just say NO!

    Christian,
    Just read your blog on winch cleaning. One of my Barient 23's seized and the drum wouldn't turn. Time to take it apart for some well needed cleaning. Only problem is that the seized up 23 will not release its drum to me. I was doing some coaxing with a rubber mallet and just got a lot of calcified debris coming out of the winch base. The drum has apparently developed such a tight relationship with the assembly over the 30+ years they have been together that they will not be parted. I have sprayed with PB Blaster as much as I could and have let it set for 2 weeks. I will see how it goes this weekend when I go back down to the boat. I am expecting the interior to look much like yours or maybe worse. At this point I am guessing that they have never been taken apart and maintained EVER!. So I am adding them all to the ever growing "list" to be cleaned and serviced. If only I could get my bank account to grow as prosperously as my "things to do " list. Wow! I would be in great financial shape!!
    Don Moran, AKA Navman
    1986 E- 38
    S.V. The Optimist II

  9. #9
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    With the ST arm removed you might try dribbling a gallon of vinegar down the top in hopes of dissolving salts on the races.

    Or maybe the gear cogs are stuck on the lower drum, which would mean sharp raps with a hammer there.

    I found it convenient to take the winches off the boat, which in fact was necessary to completely disassemble the Barient 27s (kind of a bad design for that particular model). It wasn't that hard to get them off and on.

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    Last edited by Christian Williams; 02-12-2018 at 04:36 PM.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
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    Contributing Member I
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    Is this a Barient 17 ST - two speed winch??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    I went to rebuild two of my '85 Barient winches (size 17-ST and 18).

    My Ericson 35.3 has a Barient winch on the cabin top but it does not have a number on the drum. It is self-tailing and two speed. The dimensions are a max diam of 5", height of 6.5". I will add a photo of it. I want to find a second one of these to add to the other side of the cabin top, but I am struggling to figure out what winch this is. It looks to be the same size as a 17 ST but the only ST i have seen from Barient is a single speed...

    Ken - is your 17ST single or double speed and does it have a number on the top of the drum?

    Can anyone help confirm my model? Extra credit if you can source one for sale!

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  11. #11
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    That looks like a 21. I have three of them on my cabin top and a 19 one speed.
    Bob Morrison
    1987 E-34 Hull #15
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    The pawls at WM for Barients are junk, they need to be beveled on the engagement side a little bit or they won't fit. Honestly after just rebuilding a Lewmar and using them on other boats, I'm not impressed at all(plastic strippers, plastic bearing cages, and plastic spacers are dumb), rant over. A Barient looks like a work of art next to a Lewmar. I'll add my preferred cleaner is low odor mineral spirits with a brass brush. Has anybody found it necessary to replace the Barient primaries from wear?
    E38 #11 ​Skalawag

  13. #13
    Sustaining Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipstreamer View Post
    Ken - is your 17ST single or double speed and does it have a number on the top of the drum?
    Mine is a single speed 17-self tailer. Overall winch dimensions are 5 1/8" wide x 6 1/4" tall. It is stamped with "Barient" and "17" on the top of the drum.

    For comparison, the Barient 18 (2 speed, non-ST) I am also rebuilding has the same outer drum width: 5 1/8" wide, though the drum height is shorter than the 17 ST. The 18 has an inner-drum (where the rope wraps) of 3 1/16", the 17's inner drum is about 2 31/32" (inner drums were measured by placing a block of wood on either side of drum, so, rough measurements.)

    I've seen quite a few Barient winch posts on ebay.

    Yeah, these Barients were built like tanks. I haven't seen this much good old American metal since working on my '76 Chevy Nova.
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 02-14-2018 at 08:03 PM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

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    Contributing Member I
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    Hi Bob and Ken
    Thanks for the info. The dimensions of the 21 suggest it is taller than my one and the photos I have seen show the lowest section of the drum (under the indent that runs around the base) is about 1.5" whereas mine is 1.0" The 17 is much closer, but single speed.

    I have not serviced the winch since I bought the boat (Oct'17), so I think I will pull it apart and see if I can figure out more. I'll also take my calipers to the boat for more accurate measuring. I'll let you know what I find...

    If others have other ideas, please let me know!
    Steve

  15. #15
    Principal Partner markvone's Avatar
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    Steve,

    The Barient catalog linked below only shows the 17ST as a single speed. Notice that the 21/22ST (and the 19ST and 23ST which are not shown on this year catalog) all are VERY similar in size. All four look tall and skinny compared to the 18 and smaller and the 24ST and larger.

    http://l-36.com/barient_catalog.php

    If you go here:

    http://l-36.com/winches.php

    you can see all the variants of the Barients and get dimensions and layout diagrams which will make you more comfortable taking one completely apart. I found I didn't need to reference the drawings when I took mine apart - it was much more logical and easier to reassemble than it looks when you start.

    Ken is right. The internal parts are impressive. I'll take an old used Barient over a new winch any day.



    I've found (and bought) used self tailing Barients in the following places:

    Local marine consignment store (Bacon's, Annapolis in my case) - If you're lucky they will have an online listing.

    Ebay - if you set up an auto search Ebay will do all the work and email you when items are listed.

    Craigslist - I used http://www.my-craigs-finder.com/ to look by state. You can check as far as you are willing to drive.

    Lastly Hutton-Arco bought the tooling for Barient/Barlow and have certain parts:

    http://www.arco-winches.com/products/spares

    I would certainly think a spare winch for parts would be cheaper for small common parts. For example, I think most of the ratchet pawls and springs are the same (Arco P/N #01-400, $38 in 2010 plus shipping from Australia). There have to be thousands of small non-ST Barients available cheap. Bacon's has dozens of 10 - 18s. Heck, I have six 18s that I've been planning to get rid of.

    Mark
    Last edited by markvone; 02-15-2018 at 06:03 AM.
    Mark & Ronnie Vinette
    E36RH #21 GLIDE
    Annapolis, MD

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