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Composting Thread

jamescio

Member II
Does anyone have any experience in installing a composting head (Nature's Head or Air Head) in an Ericson? Also, it just better to re-install another Raritan or traditional type system. The composting heads are very expensive, but I would be able to remove the holding tank and add some storage. Any advice is appreciated!
 

woolamaloo

Member III
I'm in the process of installing one right now. I bought an Air Head last off season, After a lot of procrastination, I'm finally starting the install. I'll make a blog post on the experience.

I first saw the Air Head at the Chicago Boat Show in Jan. 2016 and spent some time talking with the company owner. I saw its main benefit for me - no holding tank to be pumped out. I can install solar to make electricity. I can carry Jerry cans on deck to extend diesel and water range. The immediacy of having to have my holding tank pumped out just plain bothered me. BUT, venting it through the deck was an absolute non-starter for me. I just couldn't imagine drilling a 3" hole in my deck for this. However, my boat is over 30 years old and my head hoses just plain stink. Something had to be done about the smell. As I kept considering solutions, I ran across someone mentioning that they vented their composting toilet through the anchor locker. This put the composting toilet back into the running.

Venting the head through the anchor locker luckily coincided with me changing the leaky design of the anchor pan. Right now, I have the anchor pan pulled, the old head and holding tank pulled, and the old head mounting holes re-epoxied. I'm using epoxy and glass reinforced Coosa board to create the new anchor locker similar to what Shelman did in this post. I think I have everything to start the installation. My biggest problem is waiting for 50 degree days to work and that my boat is over an hour from home. I'm already on my 3rd template for the anchor locker. I think I'll get it finalized next trip and I can get started in earnest.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Jim/Woolamaloo, how are you able to mount the Air Head in the 30+? I have a little shelf that the toilet sits on. Is that also in your boat? There is no way the Air Head or Natures Head would fit on that shelf. Are you modifying the floor to accommodate the toilet?

Thanks!
 

woolamaloo

Member III
Jim/Woolamaloo, how are you able to mount the Air Head in the 30+? I have a little shelf that the toilet sits on. Is that also in your boat? There is no way the Air Head or Natures Head would fit on that shelf. Are you modifying the floor to accommodate the toilet?

Thanks!

That little shelf is definitely on my boat and it concerned me. I measured the best I could. But, the area is a really weird shape and it's particularly difficult getting good measurements with the old head in the way. I just rolled the dice. I was pretty confident that the main base would fit. I was worried about the two tabs that holds the liquid tank. Of course, if those don't fit, it's a problem. In the instructions I could find mention of building up a new ledge to support the front if necessary. Vague.

There are two sizes of the Air Head: Marine Size and Household Size. If memory serves, (I did this research about 16 months ago) the bases are identical. The only difference is the size of the seat. And really, that size different only causes a problem with getting the head to fit because the household size has the hinges hang off the back of the base - preventing you from mounting about an inch farther back. If you look a little closer at their site, you find that there is an alternate base. It takes up the same room as the regular base but has the lower back corner angled. They call it the hull shape. So, I got greedy. I chose the Household Size knowing it was going to cause me more problems. But I tried to mitigate it by getting it with the hull shape. Knowing I was going to vent it to the anchor locker, I called and ordered the vent hose a few feet longer. The head came and it's very nice. It was in my garage for about a year - waiting.

This, I'm not proud of. The marina called me in December and asked if there were any projects that I needed done. I'm not too proud to pay someone when I'm over my head. I feel the more I do, the more I know and the better prepared I am when something goes wrong on the boat. But honestly, how prepared do I need to be for the head system that I'm throwing away? When I sheepishly floated the idea of them pulling the head and holding tank for me. They said the owner's son was home from college and wanted the work. He'd do it for 175 bucks. Yes, please. A few days later, I got the invoice, which included "1 roll of paper towels" in the parts section. I've never been happier to pay the yard rate.

My next trip up was my first fitting of the head in the empty space. It almost fits. It might fit fine with the marine size seat but now my heart was set on the household seat. I tried angling it and it almost fit there too. But with it angled, my feet would be in the salon when sitting down. I decided to think on it. I filled the old screw holes with epoxy and worked on other projects. I came home to think about it.

When it was angled towards the door, one of the liquid tank supports hung out about an inch and a half. I considered getting a piece of aluminum that I could mount under the base that would support that hanging support. I was worried that by only supporting one (or two) brackets it would cause it to twist. I went back up to test my theory. Looking it over, I realized that if I mount the head facing aft like the normal, the two front supports only hang out less than an inch. I bought the aluminum plate. It's a tenth of an inch and 12" x 12" and cost me about $14. The more I thought about this, the more I liked it. Mounting the four brackets while awkwardly kneeling beside the head was going to be difficult. Now, I'm going to shape the aluminum to fully support the bottom of the head and all brackets. Then, I can mount the brackets in my workshop at a comfortable level. Then, I'll just need to mount the aluminum plate and the head will snap right in. I'll keep it as small as I can and it will take some hard to find hardware because of the clearances. But, I don't think it will even be noticeable. What could go wrong? :)

So, those are the plans I have right now. I'll keep you informed.
 
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ConchyDug

Member III
I can offer my advice and experience with the nature's head. I've had it for almost 2yrs can't be happier. The early 38's have the elevated section in the head too. To remedy this I'm getting the floor elevated to match soon, the interim fix was a 4x4" & 2x2" combination that looks a little goofy. Be advised the female passengers will complain incessantly about the height until the floor is fixed. The hardest part of the install was the vent and where to run it to. I decide to use the pump out deck fitting as the spot with a Vetus pancake vent that can be opened and shut. I used a kitchen sink drain of all things to reduce/adapt the vent's size down to the tubing size coming off the head vent. I rain the tubing thru a hole in the cabinet for the old heads hoses and snaked it thru the cabinet up to the deck fitting. I'm currently just using the 110 power adapter for the fan, but when I decide to go cruising I'll hard wire it in with a switch. I installed it because traditional marine heads just add to the complexity of owning a boat. I got rid of 2 thru hulls, smelly tank, smelly hoses, and freed up space for storage. The big plus is no more detailed "classes" for passengers or cleaning up after them when they break the manual head.
 

dt222

Member III
Is it at all possible to cut out the shelf in the head that the unit sits on to lower the overall height of the install?

Don
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
“No more holding tank” sounds great. Especially since the pump-out stations near me are closed half the year. But they lost me down in the fine print where instead of the holding tank, “simply store five-gallon buckets of sold waste and milk jugs of urine on deck somewhere.” Even though that probably wouldn’t happen on a daysail or weekend cruise.
 

ConchyDug

Member III
I'm really hesitant to cut the elevated shelf out...say the next owner prefers the manual/holding tank combo, plus I think the hull contour prevents lowering it too much. The nature's head comes with 2 tanks that I think hold almost 5 gallons and each load of moss is good for like 60...uh brown fish. If you can cash that in a day sail or weekend trip that's impressive! Also a vinegar spray bottle for post use and cleaning the head with bleach every couple weeks makes it odorless.
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
We're sold on the composting idea and glad to see they fit some models, but for those with a 1980s 32 (-2, -3 , -200) the Airhead and NatureHead sit too tall to be realistic.They are each 20" and sit on a 7"+ tall shelf, making the seat height a solid 27." Further, with the upward bend in the wall pushing the installation , they leave very little floor space. If you were to try cutting the shelf, you'd gain maybe an inch to the hull. Mocking them up and me at 6 ft, the height was barely do-able for me, it's a non-starter for her at 5'2". There wasn't enough remaining floor space to move my feet.

While the C-Head is about an inch shorter and the "shorty" version would be 22" sitting height, I'm probably going to make my own. Below are some photos and illustrations for others interested in going down this path:

Photos of the space below. The outside edges of the blue tape are 13" which is the width of the Natures Head:

20190127_161151-L.jpg


The tape measure adds 3", so the shelf is 21" across.
20190127_162604-L.jpg
20190127_162621-L.jpg

20190127_162729-L.jpg


Natures Head below: https://natureshead.net/installation/
Dimensions_large.jpg

Air Head version with similar beveled back cornerbelow: https://airheadtoilet.com
marine-hull-side-dimensions.jpg

airhead-front-dimensions.jpg


C-Head below with cutaway base option: Cut_away_Model_dimensions.jpg
Cut_away_Model_dimensions.jpg
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Do you have a guide or instructions you're working from on the make-your-own option?
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Geoff -

If the question was to me, then yes I will be making my own and already have PVC plastic panels in the shed. Right now am working on port light replacements and other higher priorities.

It is REALLY nice to have the smelly head, tank, and hoses out of the boat, plus have all of the new storage where the holding tank was beneath the V-berth.

Bob
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Geoff -

If the question was to me, then yes I will be making my own and already have PVC plastic panels in the shed. Right now am working on port light replacements and other higher priorities.

It is REALLY nice to have the smelly head, tank, and hoses out of the boat, plus have all of the new storage where the holding tank was beneath the V-berth.

Bob

The question was to you, so thanks - my ability to use the full forum suite of tools was severely diminished after the head hoses yesterday :D

Do you have schematics you're making your own head from? Your analysis of not being able to use an off-the-shelf composting head on the E32-3 made me pull my holding tank out of the bin...I'm not sure I trust my own abilities to DIY something like that. But I agree that it feels REALLY nice to have that big system of shit-spaghetti temporarily not on board.
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
So far I just have the experience of using a couple different types of composting toilets and some sketches for what I plan to do. I'm not near the sketches and it is a busy week work-wise so maybe can post something next weekend.
 
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