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rudder post spacer auto pilot install

Navman

Member III
I am currently beginning the installation of a newly purchased autopilot. I have ordered a Edson rudder post tiller. It will be mounted on the rudder post and the linear drive will be attached to it. My question is; is it OK to remove the 3" wide spacer located beneath the quadrant ( see photo)? This area is where I want to mount the rudder tiller. Any input is greatly appreciated.

As always, Thanks to all!IMG_2094 (1).JPG
 

Ryan L

s/v Naoma
I am currently beginning the installation of a newly purchased autopilot. I have ordered a Edson rudder post tiller. It will be mounted on the rudder post and the linear drive will be attached to it. My question is; is it OK to remove the 3" wide spacer located beneath the quadrant ( see photo)? This area is where I want to mount the rudder tiller. Any input is greatly appreciated.

As always, Thanks to all!View attachment 23527


We removed the spacer, installed an edson tiller arm for autopilot linear drive, then made a new appropriately sized (much smaller) spacer from stock purchased from McMaster Carr. That was 4 years and 15k+ miles ago and it's worked fine so far. Note that if you do not put a spacer the rudder will travel vertically enough to potentially be a problem. Ask me how I know... :) If you're not planning to remove your rudder you can easily cut off the old spacer, split a new spacer in half, then use hose clamps to hold the pieces together. It's not as solid as dropping the rudder and installing an intact spacer but it may get you going until next haul out? Good luck!
 

Navman

Member III
Rudder post spacer

Ryan,
Thank you for the reply. I have read your previous posts relative to your installation (as well as every other post I could get my hands on). What material did you use for the spacer? As the quadrant appears to be up as high as possible almost to the deck bottom, I was thinking of putting the tiller arm down as low as possible. I was also wondering about the possibility of mounting the arm facing aft so I could have more room as the engine compartment is pretty crowded around the post area. This way I thought I could glass in and reinforce the plywood panel separating the engine area from the helm seat storage area and put the ram and mount back there. I am going down this weekend to look things over and get an exact dimension of the rudder post so I can order the tiller arm. At the same time I will examine the mounting possibilities.Does this sound feasible to you? I have the new Sitex display and "brains" package along with the Octopus ram, hydraulics are not separate but are mounted on the ram.
Thanks for the
help!!
 

Ryan L

s/v Naoma
Ryan,
Thank you for the reply. I have read your previous posts relative to your installation (as well as every other post I could get my hands on). What material did you use for the spacer? As the quadrant appears to be up as high as possible almost to the deck bottom, I was thinking of putting the tiller arm down as low as possible. I was also wondering about the possibility of mounting the arm facing aft so I could have more room as the engine compartment is pretty crowded around the post area. This way I thought I could glass in and reinforce the plywood panel separating the engine area from the helm seat storage area and put the ram and mount back there. I am going down this weekend to look things over and get an exact dimension of the rudder post so I can order the tiller arm. At the same time I will examine the mounting possibilities.Does this sound feasible to you? I have the new Sitex display and "brains" package along with the Octopus ram, hydraulics are not separate but are mounted on the ram.
Thanks for the
help!!

Yes, what you describe sounds good to me (and is close to what we did) but I'm not a mechanical engineer so take my input with a grain of salt... I don't remember the exact material we purchased for our spacer but probably any strong thick-ish tube plastic tube stock would be ok. I assume the more resistant it is to eroding the longer it will last but even if it's a relatively soft plastic I don't think it's a big deal. We greased ours heavily just in case and I've never noticed any plastic residue sticking in the grease or anywhere else in the compartment.... Like you we mounted our tiller arm facing mostly aft although ours is at a slight angle relative to straight aft. It is fine to mount the arm at any angle as long as your autopilot "brain" can handle it (you may need to mount the linear drive/ram perpendicular to the tiller arm).... I think you will LOVE the Octopus ram. Ours has performed flawlessly so far and hasn't even needed a top off on hydraulic fluid yet. Like you we ordered the version with the mounted hydraulics but we ended up separating them when we installed the unit. It's just a matter of purchasing longer hoses etc (same components and settings, at least on ours).... For your bulkhead if it were me I'd consider epoxying in a piece of G10 and possibly tabbing it to an angle and/or the hull. G10 is a bitch to cut but relatively easy to drill and MUCH stronger than the wood. With wood I'd be concerned that the sheer forces on the bolts may over time widen the mounting holes, even if the surface of the wood is coated with glass. The forces on the ram/tiller are enormous, I don't know the specifics of how your bulkhead is mounted but if it's just somewhat lightly tabbed to the hull I would not think that is enough for this application. That's based on nothing but my personal opinion after having mounted a grand total of one autopilot and watching it work for the past 4 years in a wide range of conditions... Don't forget you need to mount the rudder position sensor (I assume your autopilot has one?) I don't recall if there are pics of how we did that in our thread but basically we just mounted a piece of "starboard" (rigid plastic) to the linear drive (aka ram) using two large half-circle cable holders (or whatever they're called). We mounted the sensor body to the plastic piece and drilled/tapped the tiller arm for the other end of the sensor arm. Works fine so far... One tip- If you remove the radial drive be careful in how you remove any residual corrosion. We used a wire brush and when we re-mounted the drive there was a tiny bit of play from the material that was removed. We ended up having to shim the mount. Not impossible but kind of a pain in the ass.
 
Last edited:

Navman

Member III
Ryan,
Thanks a lot for the info. As I said before I am going to the boat this weekend ( its on the hard) to check out possibilities and begin making mock ups of possible mounting options. As you are well aware, this is one of those things where the thinking is more than half the work. Initiating and fabricating is not typically a big deal. I will be sure to have lots of mineral ice on hand for the cramps which I am sure will ensue. I know I will most likely have more questions in the future. Do you recall approximately how much the tiller arm was when you purchased it? Just trying to get an idea.

Thanks again and happy sailing!
 

Ryan L

s/v Naoma
Ryan,
Thanks a lot for the info. As I said before I am going to the boat this weekend ( its on the hard) to check out possibilities and begin making mock ups of possible mounting options. As you are well aware, this is one of those things where the thinking is more than half the work. Initiating and fabricating is not typically a big deal. I will be sure to have lots of mineral ice on hand for the cramps which I am sure will ensue. I know I will most likely have more questions in the future. Do you recall approximately how much the tiller arm was when you purchased it? Just trying to get an idea.

Thanks again and happy sailing!


You're welcome, glad to help! If I'm slow to reply it usually just means we're out of internet range. I do not recall how much the tiller arm cost but brace yourself. I remember being astounded at the number. It was one of the most ridiculously over-priced items we've purchased. As are most things by Edson... Edson claims the cost is reflected in the quality and strength, and that may be so, but still... They will want an extremely precise measurement of the diameter of your rudder post. To the thousands of inch if I remember correctly. Bring good calipers with you to the boat this weekend! I found digital calipers to be much easier to work with in the cramped space. Mineral ice haha! :) Good luck!
 

Navman

Member III
Went to the boat yesterday and tried to remove the rudder post spacer. It appears that the spacer is almost a 1/2" thick and is reinforced. Almost seems like its carbon en-trained or something similar. I had hoped to remove it easily with a small saw but to no avail. After an hour of sawing I only got partially through. It was then that I thought it was prudent to support the rudder so it would not drop when and if I did remove the almost 3" spacer. Next time I go down I will have my Dremmel with cut off blades and I am sure it will make short work of it. While under there I was looking at the configuration and had the following thoughts; I plan on installing the Edson rudder tiller arm as tight to the lower collar as possible. Shouldn't I have some sort of washer to cushion and separate the bronze rudder tiller from rubbing directly on the bronze collar? What type of material should be used for the washer? In order to install the collar I am assuming that the rudder post needs to be dropped so the washer can be slid over the post...Correct? Another thought was if I have the rudder tiller tight to the lower bronze collar and the quadrant tight to the top of the post and its attending collar; should I need a spacer in between the two? SiTex has me installing the rudder position arm on the rudder post with a stainless strap and it would fit perfectly in the open space between. That being said, do I really need to put a new spacer on the post as the Edson tiller arm will prevent the post from dropping down and the quadrant from the post rising upward. What material should I use for the washer? There is a washer on top of the existing spacer now of approximately 3/16" thick and 1/2" in width. The mounting bracket for the linear drive looks like a pretty straight forward piece of work after the templates are made and glassed in to the hull.
Ryan, in your third photo of the set up it looks like you do not have a spacer anywhere on the tube and your tiller arm is slightly above the lower bronze collar with open space in between and then a space between the rudder tiller arm and the quadrant and another space between the quadrant and the upper bronze collar. Am I seeing this correctly? On another note, my quadrant has the number 3.4548 written on it in magic marker. Could this be the rudder post width identification so the quadrant can be bored correctly to fit over the post ? Any and all help are welcome!!
 
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