Bottom paint failure

Boat - 1983 E30+ in the middle Chesapeake.

Timeline:
Feb 2014, boat purchased, the broker says "Fresh coat of bottom paint". Doesn't specify what type, but appears some ablative type.

March 2016, old dock hand at the junk marina we're at says "Oh, yeah, just sand up what's on there a little, and put three really thin coats on, you'll be good for three seasons." We sand the hull until you can just barely see gelcoat through the very thin coat of existing paint. Put on three coats of Petit hydrocoat. Boat is launched.

July 2016 till October 2016, boat is hauled out and spend three months getting some fiberglass work done.

Oct. 2016 till Dec 2017, boat remains in the water over the winter, unused between november and April. Is used throughout the 2017.

She gets hauled out this week, and we find the following below the waterline. We have barnicle residue all over the hull and leading edge of the keel. We also have strips of the paint that have simply fallen off.

What the heck happened? And, more importantly, how do we move forward? A caveat to that, we have neither the time nor money for at least the next 12 months to strip this down to the gelcoat completely and start from scratch.

Given the time and money put into doing this job, it is more than a little disappointing to have this 18 months later.

Call Pettit customer service and see what they say. I've found them to be very helpful in the past.

http://www.pettitpaint.com/contact-us/

Hi,

These E30+ boats are fairly well built boats, and they sail really well, so are worth keeping and doing whatever work is needed to keep them in good shape, within reason. I would start by determining (either on your own or through a surveyor or other expert) what you are seeing there--is it just the bottom paint that is failing, are the holes caused by barnacles that have now been detached, or is there an underlying blister problem. If the problem is limited to the bottom paint, then contacting Petit as Tom has suggested above is a good place to start. Although removing bottom paint is unpleasant work, it can be done fairly quickly and inexpensively, and a new brand bottom paint applied, usually two coats of whatever the local experts find to be best in your waters.

If there is an underlying blister problem, then it gets more complicated and potentially expensive, but I would suggest you take it a step at a time to figure out what's going on. It could even be that whoever applied the existing bottom paint didn't follow the directions carefully enough--sanding and cleaning the hull, applying it at the correct temperatures, waiting the required interval before launching the boat, etc.

Keep us posted on what you find. The various experts here are very good at providing useful suggestions on how to proceed.

Frank

Thanks guys, I'll let you know what the company has to say.

The more I look at the rudder, the more appalled I am at the condition of this. At $150/can, this is an expensive learning opportunity.

My experiences are too dated perhaps, but that gray color on the rudder looks just like the epoxy product I applied to our prior boat's bottom. I do not recall the brand of barrier coat, but it was one of the major companies.

I had some areas where layers of bottom paint were flaking off. The surveyor called it "paint sickness" and said that it was the result of putting on a layer of paint that is incompatible with the paint that was already there. the recommended fix was to sand it all off to get to a solid base for paint.

I don't know any details (I don't know what characteristics make one paint incompatible with another) - but I found this chart that West Marine provided which shows different combinations. In some cases the action is just to simply sand the prior paint; in other combinations, it says to remove the prior paint. Might be useful info...

http://newcontent.westmarine.com/co...Bottom_Paint_Compatibility_Chart_2012.xls.pdf

I agree with bgary that compatibility between the old and new paint is a prime suspect for any paint adhesion problems. Also, surface preparation in any paint job is critically important for proper adhesion. But I do see another problem here. From the photos it looks like you have large areas on the hull where the paint held up, but you still have barnacles. As long at the paint is adhering to the hull it should keep the barnacles off. Are you sure they are barnacles and not blisters? I'm not familiar with the paint that was used, but do you know if others in the same location have had success with that paint? Paint effectiveness can have some regional variations. These are some of the questions you'll be faced with as you discuss this with the paint manufacturer and the yard who will both try to point the finger elsewhere. In the end, the solution most likely will be to strip and start over, unfortunately. But I would definitely try a different paint.

Looks like barnacles grew right on the paint. That suggests that it was the wrong paint formula for the region.

Mature barnacles mean nobody is checking the bottom, which may have to be cleaned periodically even with effective paint.

I pay $40 a month for monthly cleaning by a diver year round, and so does everybody around me, and we all paint every couple of years.

Even in the old days, when bottom paint was a gruel of copper in suspension, when the baot came out of the waer in October there was two inches of barnacles and glop all over it, which it was my job to scrape off with a sharpened plank in such a manner that it would fall into my hair. It's really hard to keep stuff from growing on a boat in warm water with sunlight, even today.

Probably there is no harm done, except to pocketbook.

In summer on the Chesapeake, I would ground the boat (4' draft) and scrub the bottom best I could by hand. It wasn;t very effective, but it felt like I was doing something.

It seems like it was a heavy barnacle fouling year on the Chesapeake. Several friends had much more barnacle fouling this year and we had quite a few small barnacles on the hull around the waterline when I dove on the bottom in late June. I expect a similar looking bottom when I haul for a sand and re-coat this winter/spring. Some years on the Chesapeake there seems to be more fouling than others. I guess that is to be expected somewhat due to the brackish water and varying water quality.

Frankly, the peeling off of the paint would concern me more than the barnacles. That makes me think that the bottom wasn't prepped properly or the old paint wasn't compatible with the new paint.

Slick470 said:

Frankly, the peeling off of the paint would concern me more than the barnacles. That makes me think that the bottom wasn't prepped properly or the old paint wasn't compatible with the new paint.

Click to expand...

I think this is going to be most of it. After work, I pulled out the old can and it states clearly that for a hull with ablative paint, it's all gotta come off down to a bare material. We did not do that, because the old dock hand did a bunch of hand waving and "Oh, don't worry about that, just scuff it and do a bunch of really thin coats." I'd put $20 on that we also put on too thin of a coat.

So lesson for those who find thread down the line - read the directions and follow them. Don't take the word of the old dock hand as gospel.

BTW, Andy, if your boat is in Deale, we're likely marina neighbors in some capacity. We're up on the hard at HHN.

paint

when I bought mine, she was covered in barnacles (Chesapeake Bay). Sanded her smooth, although we didn't get all the way to the glass I thought it was a good surface no chips or holes. Applied this primer as I had no idea what was on her http://www.bluewatermarinepaint.com/barriershield then applied their copper shield ablative on top. Got 2 yrs out of it and you could have counted the barnacles on the bottom on one hand when I pulled for winter. It aint cheap, but guys in the yard said they never saw a cleaner bottom come out of the bay. I also use zinc spray paint on the prop, that has worked pretty well too.

Not all Ablative Paints are the same

Was your Ablative paint a Co-polymer Variety...

In Co-Polymer Ablative paints, the copper (cupric oxide) is suspended in polymer beads that when exposed to sea water dissolves which exposes the a new layer of Cupric Oxide. As the Paint wears away, it exposes more beads to the water the cycle is renewed. The Non Co-Polymer Ablative paints, once dried out on the hard, lose their effectiveness.

I expect to get two years out of my paint in the Great South Bay of Long Island. (I have used West Marine CCP Ablative for ever. Its about 80 dollars a gallon)

Rick+

I just checked the West Marine site for the CCP paint, $139/gal. In contrast, the paint I used three years ago, and still OK according to my diver, Micron 66 is $350/gal! For two coats on my E34, that is about 4 gal, or way over one "boat buck". Is the CCP paint also a co polymer and any idea how long it will last?

Ccp

HerbertFriedman said:

I just checked the West Marine site for the CCP paint, $139/gal. In contrast, the paint I used three years ago, and still OK according to my diver, Micron 66 is $350/gal! For two coats on my E34, that is about 4 gal, or way over one "boat buck". Is the CCP paint also a co polymer and any idea how long it will last?

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Yes West Maine CCP is copolymer.

In my neck of the woods that shady side of the boat last longer than the sunny side, especially along the water line. I put on two things coats maybe triple along the bow and water line. I get two years out of the paint before I redo.

Also, after sanding use a degreaser cleaner on the bottom to improve adhesion.

One Gallon will do my E29

I buy my paint at the Annual spring tent sale...

Rick

Sounds encouraging, let's see, CCP = 4x$139(or less on sale) versus Micron 66 = 4x$350.

What brand of degreaser do you use?