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2018 Rendezvous - Charts, Customs, other considerations?

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
What do I have to do next?

I'll be back up in Bellingham on Thursday. If you want, I can just grab one for you and we can sort out details later (can ship to you, or whatever works).

If you want to have them set one aside (or ship it to you), their numbers are 800-426-8860 / 360 734-3336

http://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/

They want $110 per copy, which is more than the $88 list price.... but then again, they don't seem to be available anywhere else.

They also have the CHS "Sailing Directions" and "Chart 1", a bunch of regular charts and some Canadian cruising guides.. only local place I've found that has Canadian stuff in stock.

Bruce
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'll be back up in Bellingham on Thursday. If you want, I can just grab one for you and we can sort out details later (can ship to you, or whatever works).

If you want to have them set one aside (or ship it to you), their numbers are 800-426-8860 / 360 734-3336

http://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/

They want $110 per copy, which is more than the $88 list price.... but then again, they don't seem to be available anywhere else.

They also have the CHS "Sailing Directions" and "Chart 1", a bunch of regular charts and some Canadian cruising guides.. only local place I've found that has Canadian stuff in stock.

Bruce

Thanks much. I sent them an email about wanting one, and if they will send it to me this would save you a lot of hassle. I will have to call them on Monday.
Loren
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Glad you could find it, Bruce! Now that you have it, I think you can see why it's so highly regarded here for anyone cruising frequently in the Gulf Islands--small scale, large scale charts, inserts, good additional information on cautions, markers, suggested anchorages, etc. :)
While the individual charts for the Gulf islands are a good backup, they do not compare to Chartbook 3313 in the amount of information and detail.

Frank
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Canadian Hydrographic

Hello,

Not to beat a dead thread, but I talked to the Canadian Hydrographic Service representative at the Seattle Boat Show on Thursday. He couldn't offer any information on why existing Gulf Islands chart books were pulled from shelves. There are errors, but the delay in issuing new, corrected charts is also due to the fact that the Hydrographic Service is re-designing the Gulf Islands coverage and they expect that to take up to 2 years. In the meantime, the 2009 update of 3313 with the beautiful forested islands on the cover, is legal. He also said that the electronic charts will continue to be updated as usual, to whatever chart and plotter companies that carry them. Finally, the Notices to Mariners will contain updates as usual for the area. He said that one of the changes they are probably going to make is to drop the US San Juan Islands from their coverage.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hello,

Not to beat a dead thread, but I talked to the Canadian Hydrographic Service representative at the Seattle Boat Show on Thursday. He couldn't offer any information on why existing Gulf Islands chart books were pulled from shelves. There are errors, but the delay in issuing new, corrected charts is also due to the fact that the Hydrographic Service is re-designing the Gulf Islands coverage and they expect that to take up to 2 years. In the meantime, the 2009 update of 3313 with the beautiful forested islands on the cover, is legal. He also said that the electronic charts will continue to be updated as usual, to whatever chart and plotter companies that carry them. Finally, the Notices to Mariners will contain updates as usual for the area. He said that one of the changes they are probably going to make is to drop the US San Juan Islands from their coverage.

I spoke to their rep also, on Monday. She was quite helpful.
Same info as a take-away.
OK to go ahead and use the current version. Without getting specific, I got the impression that there was some unspecified difficulty with NOAA for use or updating for the US chart pages they had been including.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Quick question as I think through my preps...

Initial plan is to come up to Genoa Bay by way of Port Townsend and Tsehum or Canoe Cove. Returning by way of Roche Harbor and (not sure, maybe Anacortes and Oak Harbor)

For the most part, that means overnighting on transient docks with facilities. But in the interest of preparedness,

-- are there places on the way up or back that I really don't want to miss spending a day or two in?
-- and... is 200 feet of rode sufficient in those places? (at 6:1 that implies 28 feet of water plus the 5 feet above water)

Friends have told me I really should have at least 300 feet of rode plus at least 300 feet of stern-tie line on the boat...

Thoughts?
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi,

We live on Vancouver Island and sail the Gulf islands regularly and know them well, so I would be pleased to answer questions for you and for others, if interested. We have 240' of anchor rode and it is sufficient for this area. The various bays are often not very large and so are shallow (20 to 30' depth for anchoring) and the larger ones are often quite busy in the summer time, so there's not enough room for more than about 4:1 scope. In short, I usually use about 120', sometimes 150' if the wind comes up a bit, but very rarely do I use my full 240'. If you are going on to Desolation Sound or further north, some areas are more rugged and deeper even close to shore, so 300' would be useful there, though we have also sailed and anchored there and our 240' was fine.

A stern line is very useful for the smaller bays, where a few boats can anchor in parallel and stern tie; sometimes it's even required (though not in Genoa Bay). I think 300' of stern tie is minimum and would recommend 500'. That allows you the option of taking the stern line ashore and looping it around a tree and then back out to the boat--in the morning you only have to undo the line from the stern cleat and haul it all in without going ashore to untie it there. If that's not important for you, then 300' would be enough. Stern line should be a floating line, visible colour like yellow polypropylene, and strong enough to hold the boat if the wind blows on your beam while you are anchored/stern tied.

The Gulf Islands are beautiful with many lovely anchorages and marinas. If possible, it would make sense to spend an extra week to ten days exploring them (there are several good cruising guides for the area). If that's not possible due to time constraints, I would suggest an overnight stay at the Port of Sidney marina just north of Victoria and Oak Bay. From the marina it's only a few minutes walk into the lovely small town with many book stores, restaurants, art galleries, wine/liquor store; it's also a really good place to provision after crossing the border, and they do have a customs dock if this is your first entry point. As the Gulf Islands are a popular cruising ground for both Canadian and American boaters, they get fairly busy (though still pleasant) in summer; reservations are strongly recommended at most marinas, and anchorages start to fill up in mid-afternoon. However, if you can be flexible on your anchoring location, you can almost always find a spot even after supper.

I would also recommend spending a few hours at Butchart Gardens--an incredibly beautiful garden with many lovely and exotic plants, flowers and trees covering many acres. The night water/light show is stunning. This garden can be accessed from Sidney by shuttle (enquire first to be sure) or better yet, if you anchor near Todd Inlet, you can take a short dinghy row to the dock at the back entrance to the Butchart Gardens (ask me for more details if you want to do this).

Other lovely places to consider include the town of Ganges on Salt Spring island, Wallace Island, Poet's Cove marina, Telegraph harbour marina, Maple Bay marina, Pirates Cove anchorage (caution to enter properly to avoid the reef).

Also, a reminder to anyone coming to the 2018 Rendezvous at Genoa Bay, check your charts and find the correct markers on entering Genoa Bay as there is a large shallow area and reefs on the starboard side/east side of the Bay that is not visible at high tide.

I hope this helps!

Frank
 
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supersailor

Contributing Partner
Roche Harbor is a lovely place. Summertime moorage is quite expensive so I only use the docks in the off season. Garrison Bay is close by (see Mosquito Pass) and offers excellent anchorage in 50' or less water. The recreated English garrison is quite interesting. Roche can be reached by dingy. An outboard is helpful here. Customs can be cleared at Roche at the west end of the docks. You can also anchor west of the marina but it's not as nice as Garrison Bay
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
answer questions for you and for others

Thanks for the great info, Frank. Sounds like I'll be fine with my 200-foot rode and, sounds like I have a "justification" to buy that spool of Samson MFP float-line that Fisheries keeps reminding me I put in my cart and abandoned....

BTW, similar to the battery stuff, I spent a weekend poring through the various bits of information I have about border crossings, and could post a "kindergarten" summary of what I've learned if that would be useful to other newbies like me. Let me know...

Bruce
 

KTROBI_VALHALLA

Member II
Customs to and from Canada

I'm a little late to this thread but here are my experience(s). With regards to the 'US Sticker'; no worries if you don't have it on your way north, clearing in Roche Harbor or Friday Harbor they will hit you up for it before you leave the customs dock. I think I got a temp and they mailed me the permanent one just as winter hit. If your clearing in Pender/Bedwell it's usually done very quickly over the phone. Remember not to load up on veggies and fruit, they will have to be discarded at the customs dock. If by chance you are graced by the presence of Canadian custom officers at Bedwell (and it does happen), be advised to have an exact count of all bottles containing spirits , wine, and beer. If they ask, NEVER, I repeat NEVER give them an approximation. They busted my American cajones with the threat of: "If I have to go down to your boat and count them myself and you are one over the declared amount we will confiscate everything that you have and send your ass back to America....and you cant return for a year!" My original declaration was "about a dozen bottles of wine". The actual count was 52 bottles of wine (I wondered why I couldn't hit 6 knots of speed). And oh by the way....they really don't care how much booze you bring in as long as you declare everything and don't lie. The official line is 2 liters duty-free. If you bring more, the customs officers have the discretion to charge you duty. Here is another good one: If by chance your engine dies at the custom dock and you cant get it started, customs will make you move it. You will have to call C-TOW and they will charge you about $400 dollars US to drag your sorry ass boat back to the international border, Turn Point on the Haro Strait in this case, drop the line, back-off 500 yards, then have a Boat US towboat pick up the line and tow you to a US customs dock of your choosing, upon which you will pay them an additional $400....it gets better......you then have to clear US customs. Yes, In my case I had to wake up a customs officer at 2:00 in the morning and he had to come to the dock to clear me and my sorry ass boat.......How do you think that went. Needless to say they told me to get my boat off of their dock when we were done. Boat US unceremoniously dragged me to a Port of Friday Harbor slip....free of charge. Post script to that last fun experience....I now have a shiny, new, red Beta Marine 38 powering my beautiful Valhalla.....and she purrs like a kitten. I still try to get up to Canada every summer on the boat carrying has much booze as possible!
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
A little more. If your boat is 30' or under, you don't need a sticker. Only us rich big boat owners have to have it.

The booze thing gets even better when you head back. Any part bottle counts as a full bottle and the strictness of what you bring back varies with each trip. Roche seems to be the worst entry point for this. Anything you have onboard when you leave the US is considered exported and when you bring it back it is considered newly imported. I prefer to go over light and buy any I need at Sidney for the time up north. Be sure you keep your Canadian sales receipts for the booze you buy on board. If boarded, the Canadian Coast Guard will consider it imported unless you have the receipts. Both sides are a little spooky about booze. If there is only a small amount left, I try to make the fish drunk. An I-68 or NEXUS helps but everyone on board must have one or the other or you will have to dock and clear at a customs dock.

Do not ever bring cored fruit either way across the border. It's always a no-no.
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
The booze thing gets even better when you head back.

I actually called about this a while back (well, not *just* about booze, but it was on my list)

Canada allows you to bring in 1.14 liters (about 40 oz) of liquor duty free. The friendly CBSA person I spoke with said "we don't count bar-stock, if you have a bunch of open bottles in your bar for your own use on your boat, we don't care, we're just paying attention to liquor being smuggled in".

The US allows you to bring in 1 liter of liquor duty free. The friendly US-CBP person I spoke with said "you can bring back as much as you want, you'll just have to pay duty on any bottles over the 1-liter duty-free allowance, whether they're open or not." She didn't seem to care about any distinctions (such as... "I bought these in the US and had them on the boat before my trip"). She just talked about counting bottles and totaling up how much duty needed to be paid.

Notably, according to the CBP, with NEXUS I don't need to go to the Customs dock at all unless I have "something to declare". And I don't think I need to declare booze I bought in the US, while coming back to the US.

Bruce
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
US to Canada

Here's what I think I've learned so far

  • all pleasure boats entering Canadian waters must report their arrival to the Canadian Border Security Agency (CBSA) "as soon as the boat comes to rest"
    • proceed to a designated station and report to CBSA by phone (888-226-7277)
    • have boat info, ID info (name, citizenship, passport #) for everyone on board, and estimated length of stay
    • Can't unload people or goods until cleared by CBSA
  • CBSA will issue a clearance number. Once cleared,
    • record the date/time/place in your log
    • post the clearance number according to CBSA directions
  • With NEXUS, you may get the clearance number over the phone when you call
    • you still have to proceed to a designated station, but if no CBSA officer is there to meet you, you're good to go
    • note that all the people on the boat have to have NEXUS
    • I presume (but didn't research) the same is true with I-68 and CanPass

ID: everyone on the boat must have proof of citizenship (passport, visa, ID + birth certificate)
Currency: over 10k must be reported
Liquor: up to 1.14 liters of liquor OR 1.5 liters of wine OR 8.5 liters of beer
Tobacco: up to 50 cigars, 200 cigarettes
Pets: must have proof of vaccinations
Firearms: must be declared in writing, using Non-Resident Firearm Declaration
Prescription drugs: should be in original packaging, clearly labeled
Food: must declare all plant and animal products brought into Canada
In general:​


  • [*=1]fish and seafood is okay
    [*=1]canned foods are okay
    [*=1]beef and pork are okay, lamb and goat are NOT
    [*=1]processed meats (eg, Jerky) must be in packaging that shows origin
    [*=1]dairy from the US is okay, from other countries there are restrictions
    [*=1]fresh vegetables are okay
    [*=1]potatoes are restricted and must be in packaging that shows origin
"In general", the fuel in the boat, your personal clothing and gear, and food appropriate to the length of your visit are considered exempt from duty.

Bruce
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Canada to US

...and the other direction

  • Must report to US Customs at a designated port of entry
    • NEXUS holders can report by phone, all others must report in person
    • Must keep all goods and people on the boat until cleared by Customs


  • A "private vessel decal" will "significantly speed clearance entering the US"
    • If you don't already have one, you'll need to pay for one at the Customs dock


  • NEXUS holders can report by phone - once cleared, don't need to go to customs dock at all
    • All people on the boat have to have NEXUS
    • I presume (but didn't research) the same is true for I-68
    • If nothing to declare, can clear by phone: 800-562-5943


  • When reporting, generally need the same info as Canada
    • Boat info (length, registration, etc)
    • Name, ID, Citizenship for each person on board
    • CBP user-fee decal number
    • IN ADDITION, you need the Canadian clearance number, and the date the boat entered Canada

ID: every person on board has to have a "compliant document" (passport, NEXUS card, Washington enhanced drivers license)
Currency: must report over 10k
Liquor: 1 liter of alcohol (including beer and wine)
Tobacco: 100 non-cuban cigars
Food: in general, most foods made in Canada and labeled as such are importable

  • Poultry, eggs, port, ham, bacon, seafood, dairy, beef (from US or Canada) are OK
    • must be identifiable as US or Canada origin
    • lamb and goat (whether fresh or cooked) NOT ok
    • sausage in lamb casings is NOT ok
    • meat from outside US/Canada subject to restrictions
  • Canned fruits and vegetables are ok
  • pet food made in Canada is NOT ok
    • any pet food must be in original packaging
  • fresh citrus, regardless of origin, NOT ok
  • Bananas from Canada are ok if origin is western hemisphere (eg, marked Guatemala or Equador)
  • Canadian grown tomatoes, peppers, green onions NOT ok
  • Canadian grown potatoes only okay if peeled or in original commercial packaging
  • Cherries from Ontario NOT ok
  • Corn on the cob NOT ok, regardless of origin
  • Cut flowers and potted plants NOT ok
  • Firewood NOT ok, regardless of origin
'
"in general", fuel in the boat, clothes, gear and a 2-day-supply of food is considered exempt from duty

lots more info here: https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/agricultural-items

 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Great information for the U.S. - Canadian border crossers, thanks for doing all that research. We have noted over the years that the food import restrictions on both sides of the line can and do change without warning. So check every year before your trip north or south, preferably before you provision. And remember all that raw steel and aluminum you have in your spares kit? There might be a duty for that this year.

Have a great rendezvous!

PS - I can't compete with Keith's cross border towing saga (odyssey?). I hope the new engine lasts a long time.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Required equipment

Another tidbit.... Canada has some things on the list of required equipment which are not currently required by USCG. For example, one must have a "reboarding device" and a lifebouy.

And their requirement is for 12 flares of varying types.

Table attached. this is based on equipment required for boats 29-39 feet long. Under 29 feet the Canadian requirements are subtly different; e.g. "reboarding device OR lifebouy", and only 6 flares.

I'm "told" that visiting boats don't have to comply with the Canadian equipment requirements if they will be in Canadian waters for less than 30 days... but I haven't seen that in any of the regulations. I've found two conflicting (?) bits of info:
  • A statement on the Canada boating safety website that says "Once in Canadian waters, you must follow the rules that govern safety equipment..." and, farther down
  • A statement on the visitors page that says "Foreign pleasure craft (pleasure craft that are licensed or registered in a country other than Canada) need to comply with equipment requirements of the country in which the vessel is usually kept."

The one date-dependent visitor exemption I've found is that visiting boaters do not have to comply with Canada's proof-of-competency requirements if they will be in Canadian waters less than 45 days.

Table below. Canada's Safe Boating Guide can be downloaded here: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-menu-1362.htm

required equip.jpg
 
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Kevin A Wright

Member III
Bruce that's a nice synopsis of the regs. I'll throw my $0.02 in for what it's worth. I've been crossing the boarder in this area every summer for about 30 years now. If heading to Genoa Bay from US probably best places to check in would be Sydney or Bedwell/Pirates cove depending on where you are coming from. In Sidney they sometimes have customs agents down at the dock in the summer, but if you are coming in late afternoon or early evening you'll probably just phone in from the hard wired phone on the customs dock and be on your way. its also a very nice marina to stay in with nice restaurants and grocery/liquor store/bakery close by. Do make reservations in the summer. I've never had everyone on board with a Nexus so don't know if that helps or not but I'm usually done in about 3 minutes on the phone with just boat registration info and passport info for everyone on board.

On the way back stopping in Roache is a zoo in the summer. You WILL be boarded for a cursory search. If you are from Washington be sure you know the name of your HS football team (one of the agents has memorized them all and tries to test you on this). You may also spend 30 minutes doing doughnuts waiting for a spot on the customs dock. Stopping at Friday Harbor is a longer run and usually not as busy. However if they decide to search your vessel the customs office is on the land a LONG WAY away from the customs dock so it can take 20 minutes for an agent to walk all the way out there if nobody is there in the first place.

If you are 30' or longer they will process your sticker fee (credit card only) at Roache and mail it to you later. Not sure about Friday.

In the golden years after cellphones became popular and before 911 they had a great program where you got a custom's 'pin' number and could clear customs by phone in either direction. The agents had the right to make you go to a customs port for inspection but I never had that happen. Ah, the good old days....

Kevin Wright
s/v Hydro Therapy
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Ah, the good old days....

Yeah, the good old days...

"back in the day", I used to deliver a lot of race boats back from Mexico races. Normal process was that an owner would buy a round-trip ticket to and from (Mazatlan, or wherever the race ended), I'd fly down on the front half of the ticket and he'd fly home on the back half. Didn't matter that the name on the ticket didn't match the name on my ID, nobody cared.

And when I got to the Customs dock in San Diego, as long as I didn't have big bales of dope or bars of gold laying around the cabin sole, "clearing" consisted of showing my ID, the boat's registration, and answering a couple of questions. 10 minutes, tops. I don't recall a Customs officer ever "inspecting" a boat, most never even stepped on board.

Notably, no Customs officer ever worried that the name on the boat's registration didn't match my ID. Or even asked if I had the owner's permission to be crossing international borders on his $xxx,xxx race boat....

Simpler times....

Bruce
 
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Kevin A Wright

Member III
One other thing that is REAL handy if sailing in these waters is a set of current tables. Especially if coming up across Admiralty Inlet. Lots of spots in these areas where 3 and 4kt currents are common and it sure helps to have that behind you rather than on your nose.

I heartily recommend the "Current Atlas for Juan de Fuca Straight to Straight of Georgia". Published by Chyna Sea Ventures I Nanimo, BC. You need the Atlas itself which has a series of numbered charts showing the direction and force of the currents for these waters and then a yearly pamphlet that goes with it to give the number of the chart to look at for any given date and time. I always ask for the update pamphlet for Christmas every year but often they don't get around to publishing them until March (think they'd give a discount but no). I just pick mine up at West Marine.

Very easy and intuitive layout for this as compared to other current charts I've dealt with. I never make a trip north without consulting it to plan my times of crossings. Many times I figure out I can sleep and and drink coffee till 11am and still get there at the same time as if I'd left at 6am.

Other comment is in 30+ years of sailing in BC, I've yet to be boarded/inspected by Canadian Coast Guard. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Kevin Wright
s/v Hydro Therapy
 
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