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Need a reality check, please

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi,

I have been negotiating the cost of hull blister repair on my 1984 E30+ with the fibreglass repair pros here. The boat has been in salt water year round for the past 33 years, didn't show any signs of blisters except for a string of small blisters on the port quarter at the water line. But at this year's haul out, blisters became evident in various areas of the hull, more than would be realistic to grind out individually.

Workers have tented the boat in poly, used a grinder to remove the gelcoat, dried the hull with a heater, ground out the blisters and almost all areas where there appeared to be a small void in the fibreglass (which they attribute to an air space in the glass after the water has drained out of the blister), filled and faired the ground out areas and will now add five coats of Interlux Interprotect 2000.

The head foreman is quite confident in the quality of the repair, but only ever gives a one year warranty on blister repair though he says it will likely last the life of the boat. He says that drying out and then repairing the hull and adding the epoxy coating will make the hull better than new and adds value to the boat for eventual resale when I'm too old to sail.

My question: They are charging me $15,000 Canadian dollars for the repair, which includes materials and five coats of Interprotect (about 4 gallons, I think), not including yard storage fees which are charged separately by the boatyard. I know that they have worked hard, with lots of gelcoat and fibreglass dust inside the poly tent for a job that I certainly would not want to do myself. In your opinion and based on your experience with repairs, is this a reasonable cost for this job, highway robbery, or a steal of a deal?

I would especially appreciate any feedback from those of you who have had this repair done on their boat, but would also welcome thoughts and opinions from others.

Frank
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi Christian,
Thanks for your reply. Was that on your current 38 foot boat or your previous 32 foot? Was the job successful or did the blisters return after some time?
Thanks again!
Frank
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The 38. Previous owner did it two years ago. Big project, EPA rules, tenting and so on.

My sense from the wisecracks of the broker and surveyor was that the price was "full retail"--and then some.

Around here it's one of those jobs that, with other big jobs on a list, would be a candidate for a sail to a respected yard in Mexico where labor is far less.

I was told there were hardly any blisters, the owner just felt it was time and that the hull had ages of paint built up.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Dealing with Blisters

Here's a link to pricing at one of our boatyards.
http://www.rpmarina.com/boatyard/rates/

I note that their charges for major bottom work would soon get up to over $9K, for the full peel and new barrier coat.

"Blister Repairs
Individual blister repair, including grinding, filling and fairing – $47.50 each
Grind or sandblast entire bottom of existing paint starting at – $80ft
Peel bottom and provide new barrier coat – Starting at $325ft
Peel bottom, barrier coat and add layer of glass matte – Starting at $425ft
Hot Vac Hull and Deck Drying – $100 day – for machine use, labor extra"


As long as you can find a DIY boatyard (none in my city, altho there are several located 90 miles away....) this is the kind or work that an owner can do. It's not easy, however. In my younger days I put a frp barrier coat on half of our prior boat. Hard work fairing out the tough epoxy.
I have also opened and filled & faired quite a few blisters on a prior boat. Tedious work, but not difficult. Usually you can fill and fair several dozen in a few days, once you get the technique down.

Remember, for work like this, the best and most honest yard estimate may end up high... or low... all boats are different and it is more of a "time and materials" job.

Let us know what you decide to do.
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks for your replies and this helpful information. Although I do most of the work on our boat myself, I don't have the time or energy at the moment to tackle this job, and I do want it done well so I'll ask them to do it. They are firm on the price, no negotiation despite my best efforts. I guess these type of repairs and the associated cost are the downside of boat ownership, especially when the boat is in the yard for a longer period of time and sailing becomes a somewhat distant memory. Not being familiar with a repair of this magnitude, I mainly wanted to ensure that the yard wasn't taking advantage of me in charging so much.

Thanks again for your help!
Frank
 

paul culver

Member III
A guy at the local boatyard says "blisters sink more boat sales than they do sail boats". He adds that he is not aware of any blister-sunk boat incidences. If that is the case I would think it comes down to a return on investment question: will the cost of repair offset the hit you would take upon selling a boat with blisters?

Paul
E29 "Bear"
 
On Sketcher, our 35-3.....5 years ago (on the east coast) I wanted new thru hulls.
Left with them, a peeled bottom and all the good stuff back to normal... with a bill of $19,600.

Back at the slip, my wife & I were working on the teak (varnishing)... a couple came by saying "looking good". My wife said "MUST BE THAT BOTTOM JOB".


Hilco on Sketcher.
 

e38 owner

Member III
our boat is a freshwater boat and has a a few blisters now and again. After the initial panic and after reading a lot and getting some advice from Guy I came to the following
The blisters will not cause the boat to sink or come apart. Ericson did not use Balsa below the waterline. Grind and drain the blisters you can find. Let dry
Fill with west systems. Add a few more coats of epoxy barrier coat. I love the boat but have a hard time justifying spending close to what the boat is worth for a few blisters. It will never come back on resale After doing the above I have not had any blisters in a number of years. I popped them when the boat came out of the water in the fall. Let them dry for a long cold winter and did the above, I have several coats of epxoy on the bottom now. Need to make sure there is enough don't skimp

Regarding the price, full service boat yards are expensive. I feel lucky I have a trailer and time. I know that in scal a repaint alone is over $75.00 per foot. A sand and repaint with epoxy and bottom paint is 250 a foot.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I sent this thread over to a local boatyard owner for comment, and he said that the quote was not unreasonable... but there are so many variables to such a job that only with a thorough in-person inspection of the boat in question could he even start to render an opinion (not exact words, but my summation).

Actually, his answer seems measured and cautious and honest.

Facing a large potential bill, any of us would want to really ponder our choices and options. (!)

Good luck on your decision.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks for this, Loren! Just knowing that it's a reasonable estimate is helpful. I understand that the cost for each job will vary due to many variables, but at least it seems to be in the ballpark.

I love our boat and she sails so well that she's worth keeping in really good shape. So I am going to proceed with the work and hope for the best.

Thanks again!
Frank
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Is a one year warranty on blister repair the norm? That doesn't really seem like a long enough time for the repair work to fail.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I am not impressed by a one year warranty, as I don't even haul the boat each year, so to me it's quite worthless. I don't think there's an industry standard, so it's whatever the shop decides. The owner said that while he is confident in their work, there are too many variables to offer a longer warranty. The testimonials on his website are very positive, even from our ferry operator and local marine sales shops, but it's hard to know if they got extra special service because of their size or status. So I've got fingers crossed and will monitor the work closely.
Frank
 

Grizz

Grizz
The Joy of 6

While reading these submittals from around the country, they provided perspective on the benefits of storing inside, unheated, in a yard that permits work on your boat as long as you clean up after yourself...daily. Plus, there are very few 'yard walkers & talkers' when ambient temps in the building toggle between high 30's and mid 40's. the vast majority of the time we had the place to ourselves while this work was being completed.

That said, a 'Fast Hull' effort was begun and completed over the Winter of '13-'14, ostensibly to address the splotches, patches and blisters we'd attempted to repair the previous 2 winters, repairs that proved to be ineffective at each haul out. It's not good when repaired sections have names such as The Palomino Field, The Hawaiian Islands, the Keys and Bermuda. The attached illustrates what the Palomino Field looked like during 1 attempted 'fix'.

Sanding of the forward 2/3 of the hull was begun in October '13 (ground, actually) to the OEM VC-tar layer (whatever that is, assessments were variable). The yard completed the sanding of the final 1/3, best $800 ever spent, as enthusiasm and energy were waning fast.

The initial coats of Interprotect-3000 (no longer sold, permitted application in temps down to 40° F) were applied late February 2014, culminating with final coats of Interprotect 2000 (when ambient temps were favorable), alternating between coats of white, grey, white to completion. 6 coats, lots of trays and roller covers.

Completing the barrier coat around the 6 cradle pads was a PITA, with an eye to feathering the edges to avoid lumps at the overlapping seams. The attached picture, tagged as 'The Joy of 6', illustrates how the bow looked after the 6th (and final!) coat was applied.

Total cost, all in, was $2k, with sweat equity supplied by crew (when available). This is a task that will never be repeated on this, or any other, boat. Back breaking grunt work, much of it inverted, most in cold to cool temps.

That said, the result was certainly worth it, a smooth, fast faired hull with zero splotches, patches or blisters. She certainly felt faster, especially in light air, that initial summer. Perhaps wishful thinking.

Jim and the Palomino.jpgJoy of Six - 1.jpg
 

Slick470

Member III
Our boat had a long standing blister problem when we bought it. We called a few local yards to get estimates and they were around $10,000 to do the work. We talked the owner down on the price, shipped the boat up and sailed it as is for a few years. When we did the haul with the intent of doing addressing the bottom, we checked with a local blister expert shop and they were closer to the $15,000 mark. Work done in their shop indoors, heated, dehumidifiers, etc.

We spoke to an independent contractor who did all the same steps as the expert shop, but without the heated indoor space, dehumidifiers, etc. He came in about $10,000, but we'd have to wait for the boat to get below the prescribed moisture levels naturally (which took most of the season). We ended up meeting somewhere in the middle. He peeled the boat, did an initial fairing and the glasswork to put back the thickness he took off with the peeler and a couple rounds of intermediate fairing, I did all of the prep work, post peel detail work, additional sanding, grinding, final fairing, barrier coat, and paint.

Next time... I'll just pay somebody to do all of it. My knees haven't been the same since.
 

Filkee

Sustaining Member
Blister in the Snow

I can’t afford workers, but I got a $40 grinder and here is what I’m finding times 40 or so. 149C927A-E76B-4273-BE83-140FA9C7DFC4.jpg

When I get below the gel coat it’s like this: A6ADD7AA-F84F-44B4-9DC0-1F44A5F084AD.jpgA6ADD7AA-F84F-44B4-9DC0-1F44A5F084AD.jpg
Do I need to keep going
until the pinholes are gone or can I dry and epoxy at this point?

sorry for awkward formatting. Posting from iPhone.
 

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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Based on the work being done on our 1984 E30+, once you start this work, I would think you want to do a really careful, thorough job in the hopes that you don't ever have to do it again.

I think the fibreglass laminate in those areas where you have ground it down completely looks pretty good; it will need to be filled/faired so it's level with the rest of the hull before you add bottom paint. I would not ignore the pin hole areas--rather, I would grind a few of them very gradually to see what's under the bottom paint, comparing that to the blisters in the areas you have ground down. If the pin holes are merely in the bottom paint, then sanding that smooth might be enough, but if it's deeper you should grind them too. And before you coat with epoxy, I would sand the entire bottom paint off down to gelcoat (just my opinion) and ensure the hull is dry (using a moisture meter or whatever you can to ensure it's dry). If you add the epoxy over flaking paint or sloughing/ablative paint, it will not adhere well; if you trap moisture in the hull under the epoxy, it may re-blister. The epoxy will only work if the hull has been cleaned properly with an appropriate cleaner (acetone or whatever the manufacturer recommends).

Work on the hull is messy, time consuming work but it's worth doing correctly to avoid future problems. Good luck!

Frank
 

Filkee

Sustaining Member
Thanks for the quick response. I can always count on something good happening here while I sleep. Once I get down to gray, I should probably switch to the dremel and keep my grinding proportional to the size of the hole, right? I have a lot of little ones but unless they’re right on top of each other I shouldn’t be removing large chunks of Hull?3086C1EA-0838-4A79-88D6-E89A29A45B3A.jpg
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Others on this site have more experience with this process than I do, and I'm sure they will chime in too.
My bias is to only remove as much as you need to allow the blister to drain and to remove any delaminated or soft spots. The filler/fairing epoxy needs to adhere to solid fibreglass but I wouldn't go any deeper than necessary.
As I mentioned above, careful cleaning with the right solvent is very important.
Frank
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
I did a blister repair job on my former boat (Beneteau 235) - had blisters ranging from palm-sized to dime-sized (about 20 total).
The boat had been moored in an inland lake in the SE year-round for ~5 years since previous bottom paint, so I wasn't surprised.
There were probably several smaller blisters but I chose to ignore them, accepting that if they grew, I'd deal with them at the next haul-out and paint a couple years later.
My survey of web articles at the time revealed that blisters generally are not of any structural concern, so, unless you're a top racer (and ... never late on the start line, never round a mark too wide, never miss a shift, have perfect sails and know how to trim them, etc), then having a slightly less than perfectly fair hull is not a big deal.
My advice would be to fill the pinholes with epoxy as part of the process of filling and fairing the depressions (craters?) in the areas where you ground out the blister-affected glass. BTW, for my biggest blister 'craters', I first laid in 2-3 layers of epoxy-soaked fiberglass cloth as part of building back up to level with the adjacent untouched hull areas. I then slightly overfilled (as smoothly as possible) the blister crater with an easy-sanding epoxy-filler mixture. Don't dramatically overfill or you'll give yourself a ton of extra sanding - that stuff sets like stone.
Then ... barrier coats, and your antifouling coats.
If the pinholes grow into blisters, they'll likely be small if you haul and repaint in a couple years - quarter-sized blisters are nothing-burgers to remove and refill.
Good luck!
 
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