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1986 E32-3, What is it worth?

john1946

Junior Member
There is a nice 1986 E32-3 for sale here on the Great Lakes and I'm interested. But, since we don't see many Ericsons here, I'm not sure what it worth. It is listed for $35K. It looks to be in above average condition...but water has been allowed to intrude below and I suspect the the whole salon floor has hidden delamination and will need to be replaced. (Yes, I've seen Christian Willaims video, but frankly I'm not as talented as him, and I don't have a machete, so I expect to hire the job done). I've looked at similar boats online, and I have some SOLD prices, but the sample number is small and much depends on condition. Anybody have thoughts they wish to venture?
 
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john1946

Junior Member
E32-3, What is it worth

Christian: It's a new listing, not up on the broker's site yet. But here is a link to the photo's the broker sent me: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOzKfsJg2ErtkyW0xaYTd8ZKBLY2JVXslFsKis1

My initial look at the boat confirms the photos are accurate. The hull and deck are pristine. No crazing or spider cracks near stanchions. The engine has no hour meter but started promptly with only a little white smoke. The overhead liner looks okay with no obvious discoloration. The primary problem seems to be the floor. The owner lives in Virginia and comes up infrequently; he bought the boat in 2009 in the Cleveland area and has family here. But the boat is only lightly used.

As a result the water intrusion down the mast (I'm assuming it's the mast), and, with an absentee owner, the water sits in these shallow bilges and does damage to the floor and a little beyond. I'm going back with a shipwright for a better look tomorrow.

The external canvass was only recently added, no doubt at the brokers suggestion, to increase sale price. Nothing sophisticated in the way of electronics; I singlehand so I'll add electronics, AIS, and an autopilot. I hear the fuel tank was replaced last year. The hot water tank works but doesn't take heated water from the engine to deal with engine overheating issues. (Red flag?)

Thoughts appreciated.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
As you know, the "right price" for a sailboat like this one is negotiated selling price plus the estimated cost to bring it up to your personal standards.

A list of 35K sounds right as an asking price for an '86 32-3 in need of (only) minor upgrades.

An all-new teak and holly plywood cabin sole, fitted and finished with sealer and seven coats of varnish, will cost $1500-3000 by a pro. It's a big labor job. Also entirely possible to do yourself, if you enjoy that sort of thing and have space and tools and live near the boat and ...,

You know all the other stuff--sails, surveys, spar paint condition, upholstery/foam condition.

The water heater doesn't mean anything (a brand new one is $300). Maybe you can have the sole partly replaced, or a section painted, or toss a rug on it.


People tend to fall in love with the 32-3 because it's good looking, sails well, and was built by Ericson. The model has zero known major issues.

If you can eventually post the listing, members can point out specific factors as a guide to rational decision-making, which is of course, in the matter of boats, fairly preposterous as a goal.

[the photo link is not working for me at the moment]
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Photos look promising. All new upholstery. No obvious signs of water intrusion around the ports. Engine looks kinda unfriendly, but that may be because somebody tried to polish it (most are spray painted). New-style alternator bracket a sign of alert upkeep, as is aftermarket air filter. Might also be a new raw water pump. No obvious belt dust. Some kind of super-dooper stereo statement. Damage to sole appears localized.

One boat picture is often worth a thousand lies, but overall the boat presents well.
 

john1946

Junior Member
E32-3, What is it Worth

Christian: Thanks for the thoughts. Tomorrow's inspection with shipwright will tell more. Your comments about the alternator bracket and air filter indicates I need to come up to speed on this engine. Is there an helpful text or manual to bring me up to speed? The engine should be the Universal M25, 21hp correct?
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Pretty much everything known about Ericsons is available on line, and mostly here.

Finding it is the challenge. The answer is to Google the specific issue and add Ericson forum or ey.org (Ignore forum search engines, they can no longer complete with the world-dominating giants like Bing, Ask, Google and the rest).

Of course, we first have to figure out the question, but the mere humans here can help with that.

(for example, a Google search of "M25 alternator bracket" brings up a whole page of guidance.)

Another resource is Google Images.

Any hardware you can't remember the name of, or brand of, or anything with 100 types and styles, or any rig or setup, or just about anything visual you can conceive an analog for, can be found with such a search.

It's hard to describe, for example, a reefing setup.

But enter "Sailboat reefing" into Google images and it brings up scores of alternatives in diagram and pictorial form.

It's pretty cool and has made maintenance and refurbishing of older sailboats much easier for us mortals.
 
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GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
The boat looks nice. It is similar to my 87 in that it has the painted cove stripe rather that the gel coat stripe. I have a white mast and boom though. Pay attention to the condition of the bottom. If there is 30 years of paint (mine had 25) it is expensive to remove (either in labor or cash), that was a negotiating point in my offer.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
No, it's just a repair. Expensive by a boatyard, a few weeks of time to do yourself.

If you want a boat without such repairs--well, that's why people buy new ones.

All 30-year-old boats require repairs and upgrades.
 

john1946

Junior Member
1986 E32-2, What is it worth?

Christian: Sorry to be obtuse perhaps I'm misreading the other thread. But aren't there a number of these small compartments that would fill and refill and have to be continually dewatered by hand. I don't have a sense that this is a problem that can be fixed once and for all. And the water in these small compartments would be hidden, since the floor is glued down, until a water problem manifest itself? I willing to live with the problem of old boats I'm just trying to get a handle on the scope of the problem.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Well, Ericson did glue the floorboards down on some models. They left inspection ports to access the bilge pumps, which is ordinarily OK.

You can see if this boat's is screwed down (which is better) by looking for screws or plugs.

However, if a glued-down sole must be replaced, destruction is required by chisel and hammer and grinding away of the glue residue.

There are threads here by those who have done it.

The original cabin sole of an old boat is often in need of replacement, and you're right, it's not trivial.

The prettier the sole originally, the more trouble to replace it, it seems. They all get walked on and wet.

As you've concluded by now, most of us here, who like the woodwork and traditional look of Ericsons, do as much of the work ourselves as possible. How much you can accomplish, and then maintain, is pretty much a function of free time and maybe satisfaction and insanity. All of the work is within the scope of average skill, and we help each other through it.

A boat listed for $35K generally sells for 30-34--less if there are further issues. A bad cabin sole is a rational reason to bid $1,000 or more lower.

And it's easier to buy a boat than sell one, so for any boat, negotiate.

Oh, and you asked about the substructure--the Tri-Axial Force Grid (TAFG), which I believe is a big selling pointn of the mid-80s Ericsons. The compartments, some of them just cutaways where the TGF is tabbed to the solid hull, can collect water. They're quite shallow, and that ordinarily won't happen unless the cabin floods or there's a persistent drip from a port or busted fresh water line. So: not usually a problem, and if there is a problem it will be obvious because the wood is ruined.

The bilges and other areas of the TAFG that can collect water are connected by limber holes that drain to the bilge pumps. That water is easy enough to remove, should it get in.

The TAFG is the backbone of the boat, providing rigidity and attachment points for furniture, engine stringers and so on.

Here's the 32-3 bilges, toward which most trapped water flows. On this boat the original glued-down sole was replaced with screwed-down teak and holly--you can still see some ancient glue stains. The tabbing is hidden under the floorboards still in place.

1-Thelonious bilge A.jpg
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
The boat I'm considering has water damage to the cabin sole and adjacent woodwork. Given the chronic nature of this problem for this model boat (http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?14436-Ericson-32-3-Leak-Management) doesn't the price of 35.9k seem excessive. This problem defies easy solution and you just have to live with it. What am I missing here. I know its a sweet sailing boat but still.

So there are actually three things going on

1) rain water that comes down inside the mast comes out the aft edge of the mast step and can collect on top the sole. Easy to deal with in a number of ways - some people use weather-seal tape or similar to "channel" the water into the bilge. It is not a big deal.

2) normal bilge water (like any boat has) flows into the pockets between the sections of the TAFG. There is an inlet for a manual bilge pump, as well as an electric bilge pump, under the sole. Both are more than adequate for dewatering the bilge (just as you would do on any boat). It is not a big deal.

3) water that may come in through other ways (eg, leaking portlights or whatever) would normally find its way into the bilge but, because of the way the TAFG is tabbed into the hull, there may be "pockets" that interrupt the journey of water into the bilge. It can collect in "pockets". It is not a big deal.

NONE of this is a reason not to buy the boat. If you don't want to take on replacing an already-damaged sole, that's one thing. But this is not a thing that "defies easy solution" in the 32-3 - I'd argue that the TAFG is a *strong* feature in favor of this design, and the fact that it creates some places where water might collect is a generally harmless byproduct.

$.02
Bruce
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Look like a great opportunity for you. The 32 is a beautiful boat (of course I'm a little biased).
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I'm the guy who wrote the post you referenced (32-3 Leak Management), so I thought I'd clarify:

The real "chronic" problem is that rain water enters from outside the mast and exits at the base of the mast, inside the boat. Such is the case with almost all keel-stepped masts. The simple fix here is to find a way to direct water from the mast step into the bilge, to prevent it from draining directly onto the cabin sole. My in-elegant but effective fix was this:

20170311_152218.jpg Removing the teak trim ring from around the mast base, notching the bilge cover, and caulking around the mast step. The result is that water from the mast no longer floods my floor.

The damage shown to the sole in your pictures is consistent with this type of leak: It is worse close to the mast base and emanates outward, to a lesser extent, to other areas of the floor (probably caused by motion of the boat while the floor had standing water on it). A couple notes: (1) It is not necessary for the forward bilge to over-flow for this to happen. The problem is from water running off the mast step directly onto the floor. (2) Once you do get the water to drain into the bilge, pay attention to how the forward bilge is configured. Most came from the factory with the forward bilge separated from the remaining bilge compartments and containing its own Rule bilge pump. While this worked well if you use the shower (it keeps soap, scum and hair out of the aft bilge sections), it doesn't work as well for mast rainwater. That forward bilge probably can't hold more than a gallon, so most owners drilled a limber hole through the TAFG to connect the forward bilge to the larger, aft bilge sections. While this is not a good idea if you frequently shower in your boat (most of us don't) the result is that a heavy rainstorm now results in only a slight rise in all the bilge compartments, rather than nearly filling the forward, previously segregated section.

Your picture also shows some damage to the lower inch-or-so of some of the cabinetry. This damage may be harder to fix than the sole. I don't know how you refinish only "part" of a surface, and you certainly wouldn't want to remove and refinish all the damaged cabinetry. Could give you some bargaining power on the sale price, though. Then maybe you could hide the damage behind pieces of 1-1/2" teak trim (kind of like floor trim in a house).

In my post, 32-3 Leak Management, I was referring to a leaking fresh-water deck fitting on the starboard side. Because the boat was on-the-hard at the time, and positioned slightly bow-high, water that entered the cabin in the forward hanging locker ran all the way aft to the galley before spilling out onto the floor. After re-sealing the deck-fitting, the problem has not reoccurred.

You ask what an '86 E32-3 is worth? Unfortunately, it's worth whatever the first guy who gets close enough to satisfy the seller is willing to pay for it. The exterior of your boat looks above average and may justify the 35.9K asking (some sellers of these boats in good shape start at 39K; a year later they are down to 35; the next year to 29.9). The interior water damage to your boat (though the rest of it looks great) probably justifies something less than 35.9K. This gives you some negotiating room. If you know a broker, ask him for a list of recent E32 selling prices--most should have access to this. At the time I was looking, I think most boats were going for about 85% of asking. My seller wanted 35K. I offered 29.6 and was turned down (he kept the boat on a trailer and had low storage costs). Several months later, after seeing several other boats (and always liking this one the best), I upped my offer and we met somewhere in the middle.

Also, I'd ask more about your boat's engine overheating problem. There can be many causes for overheating; the water heater is not a likely one. From the picture, it looks like your engine has the original Universal exhaust riser/elbow (as mine did--my engine tended to run hot). Two very common constriction points in the cooling system are the heat exchanger (which has a clean-out port on one side) and the water-injection elbow.
Clogged elbow.jpg This is what my injection elbow looked like, and was the reason for my engine running hot.

As to water "in the bilge" vs water "under the TAFG," don't sweat it. After heavy rains last week, my bilge had several inches of water in it. I ran the electric bilge pump for about a minute. When done, there was maybe 1/4" left in most of the bilge compartments. I went back with a hand pump and drew out about another 1 1/2 gal total from the three main bilge sections. I sponge dried what was left in the bilge bottoms. Knowing that there would still be water in the limber holes between the bilge sections (under the TAFG), I use a ketchup bottle with a quarter inch hose attached and my own lungs to suck out some (most?) of the remaining water, which netted about 22 oz--not really worth doing if you know it's just going to rain again soon (and, I don't recommend this method if your bilges aren't clean).

The E32-3 is a great boat! Good luck.
 
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RKlemm

Junior Member
Boat Quote

There is a nice 1986 E32-3 for sale here on the Great Lakes and I'm interested. But, since we don't see many Ericsons here, I'm not sure what it worth. It is listed for $35K. It looks to be in above average condition...but water has been allowed to intrude below and I suspect the the whole salon floor has hidden delamination and will need to be replaced. (Yes, I've seen Christian Willaims video, but frankly I'm not as talented as him, and I don't have a machete, so I expect to hire the job done). I've looked at similar boats online, and I have some SOLD prices, but the sample number is small and much depends on condition. Anybody have thoughts they wish to venture?

My Wife and I just bought a 85 E32-3 for $25,000 late in August. This boat was in above average condition. Well taken care of. We had to replace the refrigerator and the Hot water heater Is questionable. The boat was dry docked for about two years. Sails are in OK condition and could probably use some TLC. Came with a brand new Asymetric sail. Universal Deasil needed new hoses and belt. Ran like a Champ. Had a south Head Wind and motored for 9.5 hours only using 3 gals of fuel. Survey showed very little, have some moisture in the rudder. Teak inside needs to be reoiled, and a potion of the sole needs to b replaced. It even came with a Davit. The boat listed for $32,500 and was listed thru a dealer. I think we walked away with a great deal.

Good Luck

Rklemm
 

john1946

Junior Member
Re: Ericson 32-3, What is it Worth

To all of you who took the time to reply to my posts I want to express my thanks. Whatever I do, it's heartening to see such a dedicated and active user group. The enthusiasm you show for your boats is contagious. We'll see.
 
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