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Observations from keel drop on 1984 E30+ today

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi,

I'm having some work done at our local boatyard, including dropping the keel as this hasn't been done in the 33 year history of the boat. The seven keel bolts did not want to release their nuts and washers--took about two hours of hard work and a very big yard worker with extra leverage to get them off. However, the keel then dropped off without any extra persuasion, with the fork lift driver saying it's the easiest he has ever seen. There was no damage to the fibreglass and both surfaces were smooth. On inspection, I noticed that the upper fibreglass side of the joint was quite shiny, as has been reported by other Ericson owners who have dropped their keels--I guess Ericson neglected to rough up that surface to get a really good seal. The bedding compound looked like Sikaflex or similar and looked ok, though I would have liked a thicker layer of it to ensure a better bond and to increase the chances of keeping the water out.

The seven one inch diameter keel bolts had a slight bit of surface rust on some areas, and one of them showed a very small amount of corrosion, but the others cleaned up nicely with a wire brush. Even without rebedding, this keel would probably still be solid many years from now.

We cleaned all surfaces, roughed them up with a grinder, cleaned the bolts and then rebedded the keel using a large amount of epoxy rather than just re-caulking the joint. My reasoning on this is that I think the likelihood of needing to remove this keel in the future is very low, and I think the epoxy will/did ooze out all around the joint when the boat was dropped on the keel and also came up the keel bolt holes inside the bilge ensuring a very solid keel and no chance of any water coming in. This may have been "overkill" and a sealant like sikaflex or 5200 might have been fine.

My conclusion on this part of the job I'm doing is that it has solidified the keel a bit and given me peace of mind that the bolts are in good shape and I won't have to worry about any water in the bilge from that joint. However, the boat would likely have been fine for another 20 or 30 years without this rebedding, so unless there is an obvious need, I don't think I would recommend dropping and rebedding the keel as a normal part of preventive maintenance. However, I know that there are pics on this site and others showing very corroded keel bolts and various cautions, but I'm guessing that there was evidence on these boats of a problem with the keel/hull joint, or seawater in the bilge, or some other clue that it needed attention.

This is just my experience, in the hope that it might help others who are contemplating rebedding their keel.

Frank
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Thanks very much for the report Frank.
Having done this task over a decade ago to address one leaking keel bolt, we were lucky and found the same light rust on some threads as did you.
Problem was that EY had not done a very good job of removing the mold-release wax from the hull bottom at the mating surface.
Our yard used sealant (pix in the earlier thread). Never a leak since.

Except for rain water down the inside of the mast during winter storms, a dusty dry bilge. :)

Random Observation: while it's not possible to predict or prevent all boat problems during our cruising season, with regular "preventative maintenance" most of 'em can be moved into the "statistically unlikely" side of the list! :rolleyes:

Hope to see you folks when we go to BC waters next year.
After a couple of drinks, we will visit each other's boat and jump up and down on the cabin sole just to prove that the keel will not fall off.....
:nerd:

Loren
:egrin:
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
....Problem was that EY had not done a very good job of removing the mold-release wax from the hull bottom at the mating surface...

Heck, when the yard dropped our keel we even found a paper label on the keel top surface with the hull number!
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Trying to add pics

Hi,

Work is still in progress on the keel and the hull, but the keel has been dropped and is now re-attached to the boat. It has been a very interesting and informative process!

So far, we have taken down the mast (as the boatyard required to drop the keel, so it wouldn't be top-heavy) which gave me a good opportunity to check mast and fittings carefully. Then I removed about 12 coats of bottom paint which had been applied over the last dozen years or so (usually two coats per haul every two years or so). The paint was a combination of a hard epoxy paint from a previous owner and then Micron CSC, altogether about 1/16" thick which I removed painstakingly with a regular 1 1/2 inch wood chisel which took two full days of hard work. I was amazed at the weight of the bottom paint when I swept it up to dispose of it--the yard worker had told me that my boat would sail much faster without all that extra weight--I thought he was joking, but now I understand how much extra weight those 12 coats of bottom paint added. Next we will grind off the gelcoat, fair the fibreglass with epoxy, add 3 coats of Interlux 2000 and then a couple coats of bottom paint. After re-stepping the mast, we'll launch her. Lots of work but after 33 years I want to ensure that she stays pristine.

Frank
 

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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I'm hoping that with another couple weeks of work on the hull she'll be ready to launch, so I can sail her again!:) She is such a lovely boat, and sails so well!

Frank
 

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bolbmw

Member III
Thanks for the pictures. It's interesting to note that my '81 has more keel bolts than that. 9 or 10 total I believe. It would seem that Ericson decided that in the TAFG boats fewer bolts were necessary.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Wow! Taking bottom paint off entirely with a chisel... I am impressed.

Thanks for the great report and photos. Gives me more confidence in my keel which lived in the same sea as yours for most of its life.

Its interesting that the yard had such a difficult time removing your keel bolts. Mine came off relatively easily with a 4 foot long pipe over a breaker bar. Maybe they weren't tight enough originally! Good luck getting her back in the water soon.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks! Yeah, the yard staff said they hadn't ever had such a tough time removing the nuts from the keel bolts--I have no idea why they were so tight, even after soaking them with a penetrant overnight.

Taking the bottom paint off with the chisel was probably the hardest physical work I've done in my life! I've renovated basements, dug out clay to add window wells, dug gardens with a shovel, hacked 2 foot weeds with a garden hoe, waxed large boats and more, but this was definitely the hardest. Partly because there were at least close to a dozen coats of bottom paint and the first three were an epoxy hard finish paint which did not want to come off.

I asked the yard guys about sand blasting, soda blasting, chemical strippers and any other options, but they convinced me that there are significant downsides to all of the above, including cost, and recommended that a one inch chisel was best. On day two I decided to try a 1 1/2 inch chisel, and it worked well and probably moved things along a bit faster. Doing this work myself, I saved about $2,500 I'm told. It took me three days, about 20 hours or so, to remove all the bottom paint from our 30 foot boat this way, though not the keel or the rudder, which I sanded lightly today. The bottom paint on these is still adhering well and I'm not convinced it needs to come off totally.

Interestingly, the fibreglass pro who has been in business for 27 years and is well-regarded here, advised against drilling a hole in the bottom of the rudder to drain water, as I had been advised by some. He said most rudders will take on water at the rudder post due to the pressure on it there which he said is almost unavoidable. So if I drain it now, it will just refill as I start to sail again. I don't know if that's true or not.

I also asked a few of the yard staff about adding a zinc to the strut, in addition to the two I place on the prop shaft. They advised against it, saying that drilling even a small hole for the bolt through the strut would weaken it. Instead they suggested adding a bonding wire to the bolts holding the strut in (on the inside of the hull) to minimize corrosion due to stray current. I'm not sure those bolts are accessible inside the boat, but I'll look for them.

Frank
 
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bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Well it took me two days (14 hours) of sanding to achieve the same result (minus keel also) so I think you did pretty well. I doubt you'll find the strut bolts. They are under the fuel tank, and buried in fiberglass (unless the strut was replaced). Not the best design in my opinion, but when something is never anticipated to need replacing, anything goes.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks for the info on the strut location. I had figured that it would be inaccessible - - it's a boat! :rolleyes:

Frank
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Strut Zinc

Frank,

At haul-out this summer, my yard recommended removing the bottom-paint (copper based) from my strut and adding zinc(s). I scraped the paint and barrier coat with a chisel, then finished off with a drill and wire-brush. After inspecting the thickness of the strut, I was not at all concerned about drilling it out to add zincs. I added two small zincs to the trailing edge of the strut, where the curvature is the flattest. The bolts that came with the zincs were not long enough to mate after going through the strut, so I picked up some longer ones at Ace Hardware.

On both the prop and strut zincs, I'd tighten the bolts, tap the zincs with a hammer, and then re-tighten (you can hold a heavier hammer on the opposite side that you're striking to help minimize the blow to the strut and shaft). I found that if I repeated this process every day I visited the boat for 3-4 days, I'd get about an extra 1/8-1/4 turn in each time. I was surprised how letting them sit overnight seemed to "shape" the zinc and allow further tightening the next day.

I finished up with 2 coats of Petit Prop Coat paint.
 

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rpm

Member II
Encapsulated keel E28+

Guys: how do you drop an encapsulated keel? I was told that my boat is encapsulated. Right? If not I had better go to work because during my last haul-out I got a lot of trapped water drained out about 2/3 down the keel.
 

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Encapsulated keel

Disassembling the 81' 28+ I found that the keel had no bolts holding it in place. The all lead keel was covered with a layer of foam and FRP. At the interface of the keel fairing and the bottom of the hull the FRP was built up to a thickness of about 2". The scantlings that stiffened the hull were all built up FRP about 1 1/2" thick and 4" wide. If you are getting water out of the encapsulated keel then there's a serious leak somewhere or the bottom has gotten very porous. My 73' 27 had an encapsulated keel with bolts.
 

Pat O'Connell

Member III
Encapsulated Keel

Hi Respected Sailors
Maybe 25 years ago hit a ledge in Maine at about 2 1/2 ft of the 5ft keel. Looked like a sharkbite.
Hauled at end of the season and wintered in back yard. Hired a glass man to fix in the Spring. The day before he was to arrive I left the boat open and it rained. Dumb, eh. Water came out of the sharkbite. Glass man said that he had seen this and drilled a new hole and duct taped his shop vac to the hole while he did other stuff. At the end of the day he patched the holes and it has been fine ever since?? Happy ending (I think.)
Best Regards
Pat 1981 e28 Chips Universal 5411
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
More encapsulation

Models may vary, but the way mine is put together, for some reason, they left two openings in the bottom of the bilge sump, and water can get from the sump down into the keel cavity. Maybe holes for the lifting eyes, but why leave them open when the rest of the lead is glassed-over? The only thing I can think of is maybe they intended to pour lead shot into those holes to "fine tune" the ballast, if needed, in the float tank. They might have had plugs once upon a time, but if so, they are long gone. Poking a finger or a screwdriver down there, there seems to be a gap with some kind of filler that seems to be rotten. I'm tempted to seal them up, if I could ever be sure that it's completely dry in there. On the other hand, when I drilled holes to mount the bilge pump float switch, I hit lead right behind the skin of the sump. So I think they laid fiberglass right down on the top of the lead casting.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I was interested to find an opening in the lead keel, at the top centre of the keel, measuring about 8" by 8" and at least a foot deep, maybe more. It was filled with foam, was dry and in good shape. The location did not line up with any bilge opening, so it's totally inaccessible when the keel is reattached. I can only imagine that Ericson built one mould to serve several models, and maybe on a different model this opening would line up with a bilge pump opening. Otherwise there is no apparent use for this opening, and it doesn't make sense.
There were also two smaller holes, like for keel bolts, which were likely for them to lift the keel during assembly.
If anyone has any further explanation about these anomalies, I would be interested.
Frank
 
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