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Information on Ericson 39 (1973)

Expectmohr

Junior Member
Hi all,

Great to see that there is such an active Ericson community!

At the moment we have our eyes on a 1973 Ericson 39 (we've been on 2 dates). Fairly well maintained, 2003 engine, original mast, rigging is renewed. Looks like great basis for liveaboard/passage maker: https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/waters...c1254e7aa85845826d5acd&previousPage=mympBuyer

Our plans are to prepare her for 1-3 years of cruising the globe.

What I am a little bit worried (and/or unknowledgeable) about is the age of the ship. She's 5 years older than I am :) I've read that GRP in the late 70's/early 80's were built like a tank due to the unfamiliarity with the material but this ship is from the early 70's. Since we'll be investing quite some funds in getting her up to date I want to be sure that the structure is sound and will be for the coming years. Can an Ericson 39 be compared to sturdy ships like the Pearson Vanguard, Triton or Alberg 35's of that era in ways of construction? Very interested in the perspective of owners. Another 'worry' is the mast, it's the original one, does it need replacing or are people sailing around with the original one?

For some reason I am having difficulty finding post in this forum on the Ericson 39 specifically. A nudge in the right direction is much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

Julien Mohr
The Netherlands
 
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gadangit

Member III
Hi Julien-
I really am not qualified to compare boats across manufacturers nor do I have confidence to properly address FRP and how long it lasts. I really hope it lasts a lot longer.

However, we do have an E39 (one year older than yours!) that is holding up just fine. Things we have done along the way to keep the boat strong:
1. Replace the steel beams that run athwartships under the cabin sole. Each bulkhead is tied together below the sole via this beam. Because the beam is carbon steel it is probably slowly rusting away. So do what you can to find these and inspect for deterioration. We replaced with G10 plates.
2. Check the mast step as well. Ours appears to be fine, but it is also carbon steel.
3. Replace the forestem and backstay chainplate. The silent and hidden crevice corrosion is probably taking its toll. I think this one is a no-brainer and should be done regardless of how good they look.
4. The aluminum chainplate knees that poke up through the deck to hold your upper shrouds are probably corroding right at the turnbuckle pin. Ours were way out of round and not really repairable. I cut them off below the deck and bolted on some nice sturdy stainless plates.
5. The tabbing keeping your bulkheads tied to the hull are probably delaminating from the plywood bulkheads. Inspect and re-tab where appropriate.
6. All the through deck fittings and chainplates had a tendency to leak like sieves, so look for water stains on all bulkheads and make plans to fix as needed.
7. Did I mention all the leaking from through deck fittings? Do a thorough job lightly tapping your entire deck looking for soft spots where water has turned the balsa to mush.

Ask any questions and answer the best I can!

Chris
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Beautiful boat, with newer paint and interior upgrades. While internet pix are always a little suspect, it looks to be maintained way above average.

I am no engineer, but would have faith that the aluminum spar will last the life of the boat, if not corroded or broken. (I have no experience with these particular spars, but am familiar with some other cruising/racing boats from that era with alum. spars that have thousands of ocean miles, that have been repainted, and still perform like new. )

As for the "scantlings" I have run across this old rumor for decades, and would only note that some folks do make fun of it. :rolleyes:
The thickness might have been an important factor for some cheap boats that were built with chopped fiber, but higher-end craft were built thick enough - using roving - to meet a strong "offshore standard" of impact resistance, but not to an excess. I would view the situation as good boats from that era are Strong Enough, and builders of less-expensive boats in the decades since have simply gotten a lot better at calculating how much strength they could remove from the hull layup and still keep the water out. :0
Since materials cost XX$ per unit of weight, using less is desirable as long as labor costs can be contained. That's one reason why some of us 'old timers' are mistrusting of the extremely light layups in current lower-end production sailboats.

There are some members here that have put serious ocean miles on the E-39, and hopefully will be checking in.
Oops... Chris was typing even before I hit the 'post' icon. :)

Regards,
Loren
 
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Expectmohr

Junior Member
Ericson 39

1. Replace the steel beams that run athwartships under the cabin sole. Each bulkhead is tied together below the sole via this beam. Because the beam is carbon steel it is probably slowly rusting away. So do what you can to find these and inspect for deterioration. We replaced with G10 plates.
3. Replace the forestem and backstay chainplate. The silent and hidden crevice corrosion is probably taking its toll. I think this one is a no-brainer and should be done regardless of how good they look.
4. The aluminum chainplate knees that poke up through the deck to hold your upper shrouds are probably corroding right at the turnbuckle pin. Ours were way out of round and not really repairable. I cut them off below the deck and bolted on some nice sturdy stainless plates.
5. The tabbing keeping your bulkheads tied to the hull are probably delaminating from the plywood bulkheads. Inspect and re-tab where appropriate.

Ask any questions and answer the best I can!

Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your elaborate reply. Especially no 1, replacing the beams sounds quite costly and I'm wondering if it's worth it (also taking into account removing woodwork). We won't be doing such a structural change ourselves. Do you have any idea how much an improvement like that would cost?

Best,

Julien
 
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Expectmohr

Junior Member
Ericson 39

Beautiful boat, with newer paint and interior upgrades. While internet pix are always a little suspect, it looks to be maintained way above average.

I am no engineer, but would have faith that the aluminum spar will last the life of the boat, if not corroded or broken. (I have no experience with these particular spars, but am familiar with some other cruising/racing boats from that era with alum. spars that have thousands of ocean miles, that have been repainted, and still perform like new. )

As for the "scantlings" I have run across this old rumor for decades, and would only note that some folks do make fun of it. :rolleyes:
The thickness might have been an important factor for some cheap boats that were built with chopped fiber, but higher-end craft were built thick enough - using roving - to meet a strong "offshore standard" of impact resistance, but not to an excess. I would view the situation as good boats from that era are Strong Enough, and builders of less-expensive boats in the decades since have simply gotten a lot better at calculating how much strength they could remove from the hull layup and still keep the water out. :0
Since materials cost XX$ per unit of weight, using less is desirable as long as labor costs can be contained. That's one reason why some of us 'old timers' are mistrusting of the extremely light layups in current lower-end production sailboats.

There are some members here that have put serious ocean miles on the E-39, and hopefully will be checking in.
Oops... Chris was typing even before I hit the 'post' icon. :)

Regards,
Loren

Hi Loren,

Thanks for your elaborate reply!
What is interesting about the interior that a 2 person aft cabin has been created by reducing the galley.


This boat as been around the Atlantic & sailed quite often to Norway so she's been around for a bit. The displacement is pretty good compared to sturdy boats of comparable size (for instance a Dutch Koopmans Breehorn 37).
 
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gadangit

Member III
Hi Chris,

Thanks for your elaborate reply. Especially no 1, replacing the beams sounds quite costly and I'm wondering if it's worth it (also taking into account removing woodwork). We won't be doing such a structural change ourselves. Do you have any idea how much an improvement like that would cost?

By the way, we made a ton of pictures & 2 video's of all nooks & crannies of the boat:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5m-fP3W2lKALTlLOWh5cFoyUkE?usp=sharing

Best,

Julien

Hi Julien-
I'm not much help on the cost of things, I am trying very hard to do a lot of this myself. What money I have saved doing my own work I have since given to a shipwright who is doing a very nice job of doing some interior woodworking. I made it functional, he is now making it very beautiful.

I don't mean to alarm you on the beams, it is just something that might get overlooked and your question was about structural integrity. The hardest part of fixing, if needed, is access. Otherwise it is standard cutting, banging, bleeding and using my favorite tool the sawzall. A G10 plate three piece beam could be made in just a matter of an hour or two. I've got pictures buried in a thread or two.

I looked through your pictures and I noted that someone did a pretty major change when adding the hard dodger. Here is what I noted:
1. The traveler is now mounted on top of the dodger and you have end boom sheeting.
2. The cockpit and area under the cockpit was heavily modified with the dodger addition. I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the helm moved aft? It looks like even your shortest crewmember is having to duck to get below.

Because of this, I'd have your surveyor looking very closely at the craftmanship of how all that got put together.

Chris
 

Expectmohr

Junior Member
Ericson 39

Hi Julien-
I'm not much help on the cost of things, I am trying very hard to do a lot of this myself. What money I have saved doing my own work I have since given to a shipwright who is doing a very nice job of doing some interior woodworking. I made it functional, he is now making it very beautiful.

I don't mean to alarm you on the beams, it is just something that might get overlooked and your question was about structural integrity. The hardest part of fixing, if needed, is access. Otherwise it is standard cutting, banging, bleeding and using my favorite tool the sawzall. A G10 plate three piece beam could be made in just a matter of an hour or two. I've got pictures buried in a thread or two.

I looked through your pictures and I noted that someone did a pretty major change when adding the hard dodger. Here is what I noted:
1. The traveler is now mounted on top of the dodger and you have end boom sheeting.
2. The cockpit and area under the cockpit was heavily modified with the dodger addition. I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the helm moved aft? It looks like even your shortest crewmember is having to duck to get below.

Because of this, I'd have your surveyor looking very closely at the craftmanship of how all that got put together.

Chris

Hi Chris, thanks again. Would be great if you'd share the links to the threads about replacing the beams so I can estimate how much work it is and if we be able to do this on our own. Our surveyor noticed (first glance from the pictures I took) that there doesn't seem to be many floor frames creating rigidity especially with the mast putting pressure on the keel. That might be the cause of why there are pieces of wood have been added (or so it seems) between the beam and the floor. Have you done any extra alterations to make the boat more 'rigid'.

The current owner added the hard dodger and moved the boomsheeting on top instead of in front on deck (could be put back though). A previous owner changed the cockpit lay-out, the helm moved aft indeed. It seems to have been a solid job since the boat has been sailed around the atlantic and with hard dodger to The Netherlands to Norway various times. Getting in and out of the boat is fairly easy by the way, yes you have to duck but the dodger offers a great deal of protection. If we sort out the 'beam' situation we will surely have it surveyed thoroughly.

We really like the lines and the potentioal of the boat but it has to make sense economically as well.
 

gadangit

Member III
Hi Chris, thanks again. Would be great if you'd share the links to the threads about replacing the beams so I can estimate how much work it is and if we be able to do this on our own. Our surveyor noticed (first glance from the pictures I took) that there doesn't seem to be many floor frames creating rigidity especially with the mast putting pressure on the keel. That might be the cause of why there are pieces of wood have been added (or so it seems) between the beam and the floor. Have you done any extra alterations to make the boat more 'rigid'.

The current owner added the hard dodger and moved the boomsheeting on top instead of in front on deck (could be put back though). A previous owner changed the cockpit lay-out, the helm moved aft indeed. It seems to have been a solid job since the boat has been sailed around the atlantic and with hard dodger to The Netherlands to Norway various times. Getting in and out of the boat is fairly easy by the way, yes you have to duck but the dodger offers a great deal of protection. If we sort out the 'beam' situation we will surely have it surveyed thoroughly.

We really like the lines and the potentioal of the boat but it has to make sense economically as well.

Hi Julien-
If you just search by the tag E39 a few threads pop up about the steel beam replacement. Here is what the new beam looks like. My guess is a competent shipyard guy should be able to get the old beam out in about 2 hours and build up a new one and install in another 2. Triple all those estimates and you'll have a good budget estimate.G10 Beam.jpg

We took out the entire cabin sole to access the 45 years of grime and the rather deep bilge that was full of the nastiest filth known to man. Also, as you can tell from your pictures, there is a huge volume of potential storage under the sole. We have put some athwartships supports for the cabin sole panels and to tie the one piece cabin sole back together, but not specifically to stiffen anything.

I did see those fresh pieces of wood under your sole which was curious.

The E39 is an absolute dream to sail, it points well and has a very sea kindly motion when things get a little rough. And very pleasing lines to boot!

Chris
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Reserve at least 10% of the purchase price of any boat you purchase for mandatory repairs that you missed on inspection. The average boat for sale out there sat for at least three years prior to being put up for sale. That equals problems. Just plan the addition in and you will be happier.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Reserve at least 10% of the purchase price of any boat you purchase for mandatory repairs that you missed on inspection.

I suggest 25-50%!:esad: My list of inspector-missed items, includes: rotten core, rotten/galvanically corroded prop shaft strut, decayed engine mounts, leaking thru-hulls, hoses at the very end of service life, rat nest wiring, etc. I'm just finding out about more rotted core on the side decks. Don't underestimate the amount of work required unless the boat has been kept in Bristol condition by all owners, with regular maintenance and upgrades. I'm not trying to scare you off, but that is the reality of it. It's a boat and it's all connected. One job leads to another, and the "while you are in there" syndrome rears its head. Which is why I am in my second year of dry dock...

Find a GOOD surveyor. One that is feared by yacht brokers. Pay extra to transport them if necessary. It may save you thousands, literally.

Good luck.
 

Expectmohr

Junior Member
Budget

Reserve at least 10% of the purchase price of any boat you purchase for mandatory repairs that you missed on inspection. The average boat for sale out there sat for at least three years prior to being put up for sale. That equals problems. Just plan the addition in and you will be happier.

Thanks for the advice supersailor, the boat we're looking is being actively sailed on the North Sea. We went sailing with 6 bf on our first viewing and appeared solid as a rock.
 

Expectmohr

Junior Member
Surveyor

I suggest 25-50%!:esad: My list of inspector-missed items, includes: rotten core, rotten/galvanically corroded prop shaft strut, decayed engine mounts, leaking thru-hulls, hoses at the very end of service life, rat nest wiring, etc. I'm just finding out about more rotted core on the side decks. Don't underestimate the amount of work required unless the boat has been kept in Bristol condition by all owners, with regular maintenance and upgrades. I'm not trying to scare you off, but that is the reality of it. It's a boat and it's all connected. One job leads to another, and the "while you are in there" syndrome rears its head. Which is why I am in my second year of dry dock...

Find a GOOD surveyor. One that is feared by yacht brokers. Pay extra to transport them if necessary. It may save you thousands, literally.

Good luck.

Thanks bigd14, Seems like your inspector missed some fairly easy to spot issues (leaking thru-hulls for instance). Too bad you're on the hard for so long. We have a surveyor in mind that surveyed our current boat. He's an very experienced sailor (3 years circumnavigation on a 30ft boat) and an engineer with boat building experience.
 

Expectmohr

Junior Member
Thanks y'all

After a couple of sleepless nights we've decided not to pursue this E39 anymore. Don't get me wrong, we really like the lines and setup of the ship but from what I've read on this and other threads the time & money needed to replace/renew some structural parts preventively will take away too much budget since there is a long list of things that we want to add to make the ship suitable for live aboard and travelling the globe. The search continues! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I think 50-year-old boats are rarely a bargain when the plan is to sail around the world. Too much needs to be renewed at too much expense.

Years ago, a colleague bought a completely restored 1957 Caddy convertible and parked it in his parking spot, where it made a big splash.

The restorer called him up: "What are you doing? You can't drive it to work every day!"
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
This general question comes up often regarding boats "fit" for blue water passages and full time living aboard.
While it's true that very "unsuitable" craft have (and will) make long voyages, there are real differences when you narrow the search down to the better choices.

I know a shipwright that has prepared 5 or 6 Cascade 36's for long trips, and they are all out there are are back from multi-year trips. He likes them for their strong basic construction and good sailing characteristics.
A Valiant 40 would do as well, as would a KP-44. (I have done a delivery on all of these particular designs, but that leaves out dozens of other good candidates.

If I had the budget (and youth) to want to fit out a good boat, I would want a boat from the upper end of production (and semi production) craft. This would eliminate most or all of the huge group sometimes called the "huntacatabenelina's", and all of those similar ones. While Any of them might do the job, the basic scantlings and particularly the hull-to-deck joints are not fully up to the task. That's just my opinion, and worth maybe two cents on a good day. :rolleyes:

The "big Ericson's", like the 39, 41, or 46, have all the basic build qualities, but still need to have maintenance done that might have been ignored for several decades.

I would imagine that there are equivalent boats from Europe or the UK that we will never see that would do the job. Easily.
We just do not have first hand experience with them here.

Closest I can imagine would be finding a good Swan or Baltic and restoring it. There are some other good Finnish and Swedish boats but I cannot recall all the names at the moment.

Happy hunting!

Loren
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I love the E39/46 design. We lived aboard one for a decade. One of the things I loved about it was the righting moment-positive stability up to 130 degrees. A very
desirable characteristic when venturing offshore or even just gunkholing.
 

Noorman

New Member
The boat has recently been sold. To me :)
Have lot's of pictures. Currently at the shipyard (upgrade the mast (internals and 1 spreader); many upgrades planned: currently half German Sheeting system will become complete (on both sides), all 5 winches will become 6 Self Tailing winches, current ST6002 autopilot (hydraulic) wil become Garmin Reactor drive (also hydraulic with the upgraded pump so that is has the nice functionality to take over from the AP, and the AP can take over from you), better communications equipment, more modern radar system etc. etc.

So there is still some work on her, yet she is a fantastic looking & sailing ship: she does not feel at all like a ship of nearly 10 tons wieght (in kilo's). Great to be handled singlehandedly, has lot's of comfort (incl the heatpol diesel heater). I just love her :woot:

@Loren: she is indeed maintained above average. Stil, I will bring her to much higher standards, as I intend to keep for a while :) .
 
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