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Thread: Removal of glued down cabin sole

  1. #61
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    sole reward

    Geoff
    Great looking job on your sole!! I've been rereading the posts on this and thought I'd add a couple things. First, the question of glueing. I've sailed Escapade 2 seasons now with the sole screwed down and have not had anything loosen up or feel in any way unsecure. Don't know why Ericson was SO liberal with their use of 5200. Also, I ended up useing spar varnish to finish the topside cut w/50% mineral spirits. Used about 6 coats. Footing is great w/deck shoes but bare wet feet will send you flying! Would recommend some silica sand or something in the final coat. Will be doing that this spring before launch. Attached are a couple photo's of the finished job after 2 seasons. It was a lot of work but definitely worth in IMHO.
    Have fun & sail fast
    Bud E34 "Escapade"
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  2. #62
    Fellow Ericson Owner Geoff Johnson's Avatar
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    Bud, it looks like your sole is made from 3/4" plywood instead of 1/4" over 1/2" as on the 32-3. Since my top layer is much thinner it takes many more screws to make it feel "solid". I used #6 square drive bronze screws which tarnish and tend to blend in. Being able to remove the sole makes a huge difference.
    Geoff Johnson

    New Wave
    Ericson 32-3 (1985) Hull #638
    Rowayton, CT

  3. #63
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    sole/soul removal

    Geoff
    Being able to remove the sole for maintaince access sounds great. Wish I'd of thought of that! There are a couple keel bolts on the 34's that can only be accessed by removing the sole (betewwn the galley sink & nav station). I tightened mine while it was apart so I should be OK for a while.
    BTW, I used a laminate (fine tooth carbide) blade in my skill saw & table saw to cut the 18mm (3/4 in aprox) material. To get straight cuts with the skill saw I clamped a piece of 3/4 in. pine with a very straight (ran it across a jointer) edge as a guide. A bit of fussing around but gave me the result I was looking for. Also, I routed a 1/2 in radius on the back side of the outside edges to allow for the fillets in the glass flanges and any other iregularities. Epoxy coating on hidden surfaces seems to be keeping everything dry and with all the cleaning in the bilge while apart has reduced "boat breath" tremendously. All in all a worthwhile project. Now let's go sailing!
    Have fun & sail fast
    Bud E34 "Escapade"

  4. #64
    I am in the midst of this project on our E33 and am now stuck trying to measure / cut / trim the mast step hole. Our mast step was cracked so I am currently having a new one fabricated, but I am really struggling with how to make up the hole into which this item will fit. The old opening was a square hole on the cabin sole which was trimmed realtively tight to the step (and was rotten so got destroyed while being removed. I am planning to make up the new one with a slot so the cabin sole can be removed with the mast in place and not don't know just how to make it up properly. Looking at photos of other folks boats, it looks like a removable teak trim piece was added on top of the cabin sole which conformed to the mast and covered the opening in the plywood. Since I will be making a slot this may end up being a relatively large piece of trim but it can certainly be done. Any ideas or comments on this issue??

    On a separate but related topic, I was planning to use Epifanes spar varnish as a finish and was wondering if anyone had any opinion about the hardness and suitability of this finish for a cabin sole.

    Thanks!!

  5. #65
    Moderator Justin Lee's Avatar
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    Router vs Rotozip?

    Geoff, not sure if you are still watching this thread or not but wanted to ask a few questions. I am beginning this project & am quite concerned about cutting the plywood. I noticed that you appeared to use a "Laminate Trimmer" rather than a full blown Router. Was this the only tool you used or did you use a Router as well? I don't have a Laminate trimmer but do own a "Rotozip" tool & began to wonder if that would work as well? If anyone has any experience with these tools...I would be interested in your experience.

    Thanks
    Justin Lee
    Gravitystorm
    1985 32-III #635

  6. #66
    Fellow Ericson Owner Geoff Johnson's Avatar
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    Justin, based on my experience, a laminate trimmer is the way to go (for wood up to 1/4"). Specifically I recommend the Porter Cable 310, which is the standard of quality, because you can get the offset base I think I mentioned in the thread. I bought one just for this project (together with a 1/2" carbide bit with a roller bearing above the blades for use with a template). For safety and precision you do not want the router to tip, hence the offset base. You could accomplish the task with a larger router, but they can produce a lot of torque and are cumbersome. My router is over 3 hp so its like running a jet engine next to your face and scares me. You could probably get a cheap 1 hp from Sears with an offset base that would work well. I even used the 310 with a straight 1/8" carbide tip to make straight cuts. Toward the end of the project you will find you are shaving off millimeters, using the router in the cockpit, so you want something that is small and easy to handle. I have tried a Rotozip spiral cutting blade in my Dremel and found it to be very messy, suitable only for cutting holes in drywall. Give it a shot, but I think you will find that even a jigsaw will give you a better cut.

    Where are you on your project? If you need my mylar patterns, I'd be happy to mail them to you.
    Last edited by Geoff Johnson; 04-13-2006 at 06:20 AM.
    Geoff Johnson

    New Wave
    Ericson 32-3 (1985) Hull #638
    Rowayton, CT

  7. #67
    Moderator Justin Lee's Avatar
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    Patterns you say!?!

    ...well Goeff, I have been trying to make patterns but it has not been easy. My boat is about 2.5hrs away. Up until a couple of weeks ago there was 2ft of snow on the docks so it was very treacherous & COLD to venture up there! Weather has finally warmed up enough to get going. I began with clear painters plastic but didn't like the outcome...I took butcher paper up last weekend but ran out about 1/2 way through. Your offer to borrow your patterns is more than generous! I would LOVE to borrow them! Send them my way, tell me how much the shipping is & I will re-imburse you for postage as well as make sure you get them back.

    As to the router...your comments are as I suspected. I have been looking at purchasing the 310 but wanted your opinions before I buy another tool. I too have a "Jet Engine" sized router & didn't think that would be a good solution. I also don't much like the Rotozip guides so I think I will just pop for the trimmer. Where did you get the bit with the roller guide?

    Thanks Again & I'll keep you posted!

    p.s. Has Sean made any reference to turning this thread into an "Owners Project"?
    Justin Lee :egrin:
    [SIZE="2"][I][COLOR="Navy"]
    Gravitystorm
    1985 32-III #635
    Bear Lake, Utah[/COLOR][/I][/SIZE]

  8. #68
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    . I am planning to make up the new one with a slot so the cabin sole can be removed with the mast in place and not don't know just how to make it up properly. Looking at photos of other folks boats, it looks like a removable teak trim piece was added on top of the cabin sole which conformed to the mast and covered the opening in the plywood. Since I will be making a slot this may end up being a relatively large piece of trim but it can certainly be done. Any ideas or comments on this issue??

    On a separate but related topic, I was planning to use Epifanes spar varnish as a finish and was wondering if anyone had any opinion about the hardness and suitability of this finish for a cabin sole.

    Thanks!!

    Well since nobody jumped in on this I guess I will. If you are planning
    on a removable sole with the mast in place you could make up a pattern
    out of scrap, rough cut with a band saw or jig saw, and follow up with
    a pattern bit in a shaper-that would be the cleanest. Plan on leaving
    at least an 1/8 inch margin around the stick and follow that up with
    a nice fat piece of trim. If you don't have a shaper you can do it
    with a router and a piloted flush trim bit. Either way you should practice
    with some scrap before you jump into the workpiece if you don't have
    much experience with this sort of thing. Regarding Epifanes on as a
    finish on a cabin sole- I would go with a urethane, much more durable.
    Good luck.
    Martin
    Last edited by Martin King; 08-27-2010 at 01:38 PM.

  9. #69
    Fellow Ericson Owner Geoff Johnson's Avatar
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    Martin and others, I used Ultimate Sole (www.ultimatesole.com) to finish my sole. It is formulated with a high coefficient of friction just for cabin soles.

    Justin, I'll get a mailing tube and ship out the patterns (frosted mylar is the way to go as you can write on it). You need to email me an address. I don't need them back as I have now have the new sole to use as a template. Pass them on to another 32-3 owner when you are finished. The router bit you need is a "top bearing flush trim bit". Here is a good source (also a good source for the 310): http://www.allprotools.com/store/page184.html

    You can get the offset base from Pat Warner: http://www.patwarner.com/pc310_special.html
    Last edited by Geoff Johnson; 04-14-2006 at 11:13 AM.
    Geoff Johnson

    New Wave
    Ericson 32-3 (1985) Hull #638
    Rowayton, CT

  10. #70
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    Where did you get the frosted mylar? How thick did it need to be to work well with the 310 trimmer as a template? Really enjoying this thread as I am going tackle this one on my 38 next winter.

  11. #71
    Fellow Ericson Owner Geoff Johnson's Avatar
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    The frosted mylar (acetate?) (purchased from an art supply store) is to make the pattern, which is transferred to the T&H plywood as shown in one of my photos. There is no master template for the sole pieces (although now that I have a new removable sole, it could be used as a master template). Rather straight parts were cut using a 3/4" board clamped on as a guide for the router pilot bit (the roller bearing on the bit follows the contours of the template/board). I made templates (1/2" and 3/4" depending on what scraps were available) for the inside and outside corners, the complex shape outside the head (as shown in one of the photos) and the cutouts for the five bilge access plate holes. Templates allow you to make all your mistakes on cheap wood and allow you to shave off thin sections during the final fitting. Just clamp the template to the sole and the pilot bit will cut off anything that shows.
    Last edited by Geoff Johnson; 04-15-2006 at 04:23 AM.
    Geoff Johnson

    New Wave
    Ericson 32-3 (1985) Hull #638
    Rowayton, CT

  12. #72
    Senior Moderator Loren Beach's Avatar
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    Talking Sole Satisfaction

    The finish on our cabin sole pieces is now several years old... and has dulled some from use. Still no water intrusion or discoloration though.
    While using the little Fuji FinePix for documenting some other changes to the boat it seemed like an opportunity to get a couple of shots of the sole pieces. Note that the bronze flush screws have purdy much blended in visually with the teak strips.
    (This thread is one of the most-viewed with one of the highest number of replies of any thread on the entire site, I notice.)
    Loren
    Olson 34 Fresh Air
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  13. #73
    Senior Moderator Loren Beach's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Ericson = Najad (well, in some ways)

    We visited the in-water boat show in Seattle a couple day ago. Only a couple of mid-sized sailboats really had Really Nice wood interior like the Ericsons, those being the Tartan's and the Najad.
    The Najad 35 was $350K, and looked to be worth every penny...
    and... the teak sole panels were *all* screwed down with... square-drive flush screws!


    We talked about this detail, remembering all the comments in this Ericson thread about being able to quickly remove the sole panels to access the bilge.

    FYI.

    Loren in PDX
    Last edited by Loren Beach; 01-27-2008 at 04:11 PM.

  14. #74

    SEA Boat Show

    You should have looked at the Morris 48. The most beautifully finished wood work I have ever seen even compared to Hinkleys. Obviously a bargain at $1.2 million!

  15. #75
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    If you think the Morris was nice you should check out Ted Hood's Expedition 55. I promise you that the woodwork and finish detail in that boat have no equal. None. Its craftsmanship is jaw-dropping. Saw them both at the Newport show in the fall. Met Mr. Hood on the boat. Very nice, the perfect gentleman. RT
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

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