Ericson 32 1986 preflight checklist for buying?

Hi all,

I've searched through the forum and have found a wealth of information corresponding to the the various issues associated with Ericsons, and older sailboats in general. However, I'm a newbie to boats larger than 13ft, I've spent most of my time over the past few years capsizing Lasers in the Marina. Now, that I'm wholly addicted to being on the water, I'm going to buy my first boat...and I think an Ericson is right for us. (Partly due to a fellow on this forum who had a 32, sailed to Hawaii and back, then refit a 38 and did it all over again That said I'm in no rush and really want to make a good decision.

I'm a bit overwhelmed by the incredible repairs and updates people on this forum do to their boats, and frankly not sure I could handle some of the sort of work I see owners on this forum have done. That's not to say I'm not handy, but I'm certainly no craftsman. So it'll be important for me to find something that isn't in need of dramatic fixes right away.

Get to the point already! Ok, sorry, so this all leads me to asking if my checklist seems about right for initially assessing boats. I intend to hire a professional surveyor, but only after I find a boat that seems reasonably priced for what is being offered.

I'm looking at this one tomorrow:
http://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/1986-ericson-32-6353474/#.WbxcaRNSyLJ

Here's my checklist:
1) Hull issues? Any signs of rot, or issues with de-lamination?
2) Standing rigging, and wire corrosion, or splaying? Chainplate issues?
3) Engine Condition, Engine Hours and is there an existing maintenance log? (this will be a huge learning curve for me)
4) Age of Sails
5) Running rigging decent?
6) The head, and condition of toilet/holding tank?
7) Cosmetic condition of wood and fiberglass
8) Electronics, what works what doesn't?
9) Oh boy, I know this list is really incomplete. I need to keep reading.

Thanks in advance, and sorry if this sort of thing has been answered a million times before, or I'm posting this incorrectly in this forum.

Check thru hulls and plumbing and the prop shaft seal. On most boats this age the hoses are in dire need of replacement. This is the stuff that can sink the boat. This particular boat will need the alternator bracket upgrade right away (easy fix), but otherwise looks pretty good. But boats always look better in photos than when you get up close and personal.

Also check for leaks at chainplates, portlights and stanchions. Check bulkheads for rot, these are really hard to replace. Leaks are very common, but can cause major hidden damage. Its worth taking a plastic handled screwdriver and using the butt end, tapping the decks all around to listed for "dull" sounding spots which may indicate rotten core. Surveyors and moisture meters often miss these issues. Look out for caulk smeared around deck fittings where a previous owner may have tried to stop a leak (and never, EVER use silicone caulk on a boat!).

If rigging and chainplates have not been replaced recently (make sure there is evidence for it such as receipts), budget for replacement.

What you don't know now, you will learn, and quickly. You don't have to be a craftsman, handy is just fine! There are tons of resources here and on other forums that will help you through. Its all been done before.

By the way the engine looks like it has new fuel lines and injectors. Check the fuel tank and filters.

Good luck and have fun boat shopping.

Wow, thank you for such a quick reply, I really appreciate the advice! Understood on the need for an alternator bracket update, thanks for pointing out.

Ok, my revised list:

1) Hull issues? Issues with de-lamination? Take a screwdriver, extra vodka... for tapping "dull" sounding spots to find core rot
2) Do best to check Bulkheads for rot 'these are hard to replace'
3) Standing rigging, and wire corrosion, or splaying? Chainplate, portlights and stanchions ok? (make sure there is evidence of replacement, such as receipt)
4) Is caulk smeared around deck fittings where a previous owner may have tried to stop a leak (and never, EVER use silicone caulk on a boat!)
5) Engine Condition, Engine Hours and is there an existing maintenance log? Check the fuel tank and filters!
6) Propshaft seal?
7) Age of sails?
8) Running rigging condition?
9) The head, and condition of toilet/holding tank?
10) Bottom last painted?
11) Electronics, what works what doesn't?
12) Drink Screwdriver

Hull is solid layup, so no coring to fear.
Do have the deck sounded. FWIW, our '88 shows great attention to detail by the builder(s), with no moisture intrusion found yet around any factory-installed deck gear.

Given the age of the boat, IF..... it has received regular maintenance it should have a new standing rig about every 20 years or a bit sooner.
One sign of past owner indifference is finding an original wire-to-rope halyard on a boat of that vintage. None of this is in any way a 'deal killer' but rather the kind of deferred maintenance that you commonly find even on high end boats like Ericson's.

You might find a sail or two with only a few years of use on them, but that's very rare..., but it's best to just budget for new ones -- perhaps phased in over the first several years of ownership.

The head, hoses, pump, and tank....... You might find that the prior owner has replaced all this stuff. Odds are that he/she has not. Crowded area under the cabinet in the head compartment, and other owners here can guide you on which contortions and swear words will be needed.
(I replaced all of the factory hoses and tank on our boat about a decade ago. 'Twernt Fun, but it's all within the skill set of a thoughtful amateur, sure beats paying someone else $100./hour to do it. I have the write up on this site.)

While on that subject, EY put an expensive high-quality Raritan PH2 manual head in our boats. If you happen to find a cheapie Jabsco, it replaced the original one. I would throw it away and put a Raratan back in. Note that having a head compartment and plumbing that does not smell will please the Admiral. If the Admiral is happy, the Captain will be happy. This is one of the few areas of your relationship where you can directly and reliably influence the other party's demeanor.

Working electronics on any boat over a decade old are a bonus. Enjoy them until they fail and replace them. I replaced all of the original '88 Datamarine instruments around 2004 or so and the Raymarine ST60 series instruments are all still (knock wood) working fine. It's always nice to have the "basics" of speed, depth, and wind.

I would get a separate engine survey. We did and were reassured about the general condition of it including the compression, and glad to have found the rusted-out exhaust elbow that the owner had to replace as part of the sale.

Regards,
Loren

This is great! Thanks for all the detailed info. A lot to think about here! My checklist is growing by the minute.

Really good to know about the Raritan PH2 manual head... Agree 100% about the Admiral happy with the situation . Also, original wire-to-rope halyard being a potential sign of deferred maintenance is another really great tip for me.

Thanks again for all the insight. This information is really gold for someone that's just learning.

A lot of choosing and evaluating a boat is personal, and depends on your priorities.

For me, my priorities were
-- I wanted a boat I could go sailing on - I'd been off the water too long and didn't want multi-year projects to complete before I could enjoy it
-- I wanted a boat that sailed well, not "an RV that floats"
-- I wanted a boat that was big enough to go places, but small enough I could comfortably sail/get on and off docks/anchor/etc by myself.

Those things helped me focus "which" boats to spend the time to go look at.... and then, when I went to go see potential candidates, I sort of triaged things into three categories.... the "bones", the "basics" and the "bonuses"

What that meant (to me) was - in priority order -

-- I wanted a boat with "bones" that were structurally sound. No keel issues, no major issues in hull or deck, no major damage or repairs, all interior structures intact, all major systems (motor, steering, plumbing, electrical) functional, no structural mast issues, no major issues with core or delamination or blisters... etc. If a boat's "bones" weren't good, I moved on.

-- I wanted a boat where the "basics" (for my planned use) were in place. Usable interior spaces, no goofy (or incomplete) prior-owner projects I'd need to un-do. I wanted the boat to have a stove that works, a head that works, etc. No major issues with significant components - thru-hulls, shaft/prop, hatches, ports, deck-gear, plumbing, etc. Short version, I wanted the boat to be "usable".

-- and then there are the "bonuses". These are 30-year-old boats, which need maintenance and updates. If the seller had done some of that stuff, I considered that a bonus. For example, I wouldn't buy a boat "just" because it had newer sails or modern electronics.... but it might tip the balance when deciding between two boats in equivalent condition. "bonus" stuff includes having a good bottom, nice sails, recent standing and running rigging, newer upholstery, stereo, whatever. Bonuses might also be included extras, like dinghy, or dodger, or heater, or...whatever. In my opinion, though, the main thing is... don't choose a boat because it has this stuff, because all of those things are basically "extras"... choose a boat because it is a good boat, and count your blessings if it *also* comes with some of these things. JMHO.

When I was looking at boats I made a brief checklist (**) and brought it to remind myself where to focus. I also brought a print-out of the deck layout of the model of boat I was looking at, so I could make notes on any potential issues I wanted a surveyor to look at if I went that far. If you want, I can dig out a copy of my checklist. Some of the stuff is very subjective. For example, I looked at one boat that had a pile of fuel-soaked sorbent pads under the fuel filter. In my esteem, that wasn't a "deal-breaker" by itself, it might have just been a leaky hose or something, and I made a note to have it looked at in the survey *if* things went that far. On another boat, the whole engine had been shifted a couple of inches to port - could see the holes where the mounts had been, the engine was visibly off-axis, and seller's agent "didn't know" why it was that way. That made me wonder if there were large "problems" with the whole system, and was enough to make me walk away. YMMV.

A really good resource is Don Casey's book "inspecting an aging sailboat". Not only a good guide for what to look for, but how to evaluate the importance of what you find.

I looked at more than 20 boats before finding "The One". I guess the last things I'd add are... be willing to always go back to your core priorities - *your* planned uses and desires - and compare what you're seeing against what you want to do with it. When you find The One, you'll know... and if you're like me, you'll still be smiling every time you walk down the dock and see her.

Bruce

Edited to add... ALL of the above is (in my opinion) just the process of deciding whether or not a boat is worth "getting serious" about. I am *not* an expert, by any means, so the fork in the road is to determine whether a given boat is a good-enough fit (based on your planned use, condition, etc) to go forward with. "Forward" means getting experts involved, with the main goal being to have experienced eyes tell you if there are major issues before you plunk down your money.

EVERY boat is going to have issues. Even brand new ones. So if a surveyor comes back with a number of items in the report, that's your opportunity to decide if those items are things you would normally expect to deal with, things you want to ask the seller to resolve, or deal-breakers.

I recommend not only a full survey from a qualified/accredited marine surveyor, but also an engine survey and a rig survey. All of those will be on your dime but, hopefully, you'll only get to that point once, with a boat you're seriously interested in acquiring, and the info you'll get from the process is worth its weight in gold. Both in helping you understand the condition and needed maintenance on "your" boat, and in ensuring that you're going into the purchase with "no surprises".

$.02

(** well, it started brief, but grew to a couple of pages as I refined what was important to me...)

Pictures look pretty good and seem to show a stock boat (which is good).

List is good. You've probably already scanned the Thelonious blog. In effect it is a survey of common ailments and renovations.

One thing: the alternator bracket needs to be changed to the new, non-exploding style. It's not a big deal and you can do it yourself as a good introduction to the diesel and its environs.

Hire James K. Wallace of Long Beach to survey her. He is good. I always hope he is not the surveyor if I'm selling a boat.

Christian Williams said:

Hire James K. Wallace of Long Beach to survey her. He is good. I always hope he is not the surveyor if I'm selling a boat.

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+1 on Jim Wallace. Great guy, very thorough, patient with all my hundreds of questions, and did a good job of explaining which things I should care about.

Incredible response all, thank you so very much for taking the time out of your day to give me these pointers. I had no idea the community would be this friendly...really great.

I've just returned from a boat in Long Beach, and I have a lot to process.

One thing for sure, the Ericson designs are some of the prettiest in the water, love the lines. I'm a tall guy, and my wife is tall as well, so the interior headroom really appeals to me. I just purchased "Don Casey's book "inspecting an aging sailboat", and look forward to receiving it. Great recommendation, I see it is very highly rated.

The idea of bringing a "print-out of the deck layout of the model of boat is a great, I'll definitely do that next time... I took a few pictures, but not nearly enough. I'll need to spend some time tonight sorting through my notes. I'll be sure to ring James K. Wallace, once I get to that point.

I have checked out the Thelonious blog, and will circle back again now that I have a better frame of reference after ssing this boat today. Thanks for all the inspiring imagery and videos by the way!

In case anyone is interested, here are just a few pics from the boat, I feel like I rushed through it too fast, and need to take way more pics, and spend a lot more time. The boat to my eyes, seems like it's in pretty decent condition for the age, didn't see any cracks or hear any dull spots (but I don't know what I'm doing, yet..). It looks as though the owner has let her sit for quite some time, and there is a lot of deferred maintenance. Still a pretty boat, with lots of possibilities.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YLnhKdaZGGID3mqS2

Ok, going to go capsize a laser now if the wind ever picks up...

Kind regards,

-vince

The photos do suggest deferred maintenance. That means elbow grease and time. Some of us like that sort of thing, but if not.....

Before the expense of a survey, I would look again at the sails, the interior upholstery, and the cosmetic condition of the mast (painting a mast is 10K around here).

Sails beyond use and upholstery/foam that have to be replaced immediately are significant expenses.

This may be a $25,000 boat (the broker probably has set his minimum commission at 3k).

The owner has to accept your offer before a survey, so you'll get a good idea of the floor. After a survey you can always withdraw, or make a lower offer for cause.

Boats are hard to sell. Be hard-headed.

I bought an 1985 E32-3 a year ago after searching for over a year. Seller was pretty set on the price and moved little over the time I dealt with him. I fell in love with the boat so I paid up a little rather than risking losing the deal.

I've been watching two similar '80-ish E32s on Yachtworld. Both listed for $39K a year ago....current asking prices are 31,900 and 29,900. A third listed in Seattle with an asking price of 32K (I think) about a month ago--it seems to be off the market already.

Everybody has their no-go items: Mine were:
1) soft decks-probably won't know until survey
2) shot engines; some are obviously neglected; some had been rebuilt more than once (why would that be?); some only had 20-50 hours on them since re-build (how many people would sink the money into a quality rebuild knowing they were going to sell their boat)
3) rotten interior teak and cushions--probably wouldn't bother a lot of people, but made me walk. Many Ericsons I looked at had water damage above and below the windows/ports. Replacing the teak may be a lot easier than finding and correcting the actual source of the leak. You'd probably be tearing out the windows and headliner and re-bedding who knows what in addition to repairing the damaged woodwork/cabinetry/upholstery.

Replacing sails and electronics---probably gonna do that anyway. Re-modeling a boat interior--not for me. Yours seems to be in good condition.

Do take the alternator bracket retro-fit seriously if you buy the boat. I put only 4-5 hours on my engine before replacing the bracket--I was lucky. Another forum member wasn't so lucky this summer. He just wanted to make it through the season before repairing, but the bracket broke before he could get to it.

Best of luck.

Kenneth K said:

2) shot engines; some are obviously neglected; some had been rebuilt more than once (why would that be?); some only had 20-50 hours on them since re-build (how many people would sink the money into a quality rebuild knowing they were going to sell their boat)

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So true, I didn't consider this, but makes sense!

Thanks for your thoughts, it's all very, very helpful. I'll be weary of things that look like they could be superficial, or cosmetic in nature and possibly just a quick fix.