M25 coolant pump - source and ID?

I'm in the market for a new coolant pump (the belt-driven fresh-water pump, not the raw-water pump)

Could use some help...

-- what's the actual Universal part number I need? I've seen about five different part-numbers so far... I *think* the correct Universal number is 300203 (complete pump assembly), but would love to be sure before I order one.

-- how can I find out the corresponding Kubota part number?

-- and is there a smart place to buy one? A quick scan on the interwebs shows that a "marine discount" place has Universal water pumps around $450, another place has (apparently) the matching Kubota pumps for about half that, and a third place pointed me to a knockoff? pump from "Kumar Brothers" for even less. I'm looking for a real Universal/Kubota pump, but hopefully not at the "marine discount" price.

My motor is a 1984 Universal M25 3-cylinder diesel (5421).... not the later XP or XPB models.

Thanks in advance!
Bruce

Not sure where you found the Universal part number, but here is the link to the 5421 parts list you can download on the Westerbeke website.

https://www.westerbeke.com/Category/5421/5399ADA2DAF73A26740BF7A6?#viewparts

Check with Gallery Marine in Seattle or call up to someone in Anacortes. If you get the block part number (next to the high pressure injector pump boss) you may have some luck with a Kubota dealer. The Kubota dealer is generally looking for a tractor model or serial number.

Did a search and Mr. Metzger posted on this thread (#4), a word document that lists the Kubota block numbers, but you should check your engine to make sure you get the right block number.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...e-head-from-a-Universal-5432&highlight=kubota

footrope said:

Not sure where you found the Universal part number, but here is the link to the 5421 parts list you can download on the Westerbeke website

Click to expand...

Thanks! I have a copy of that doc, and that's where I found the number (300203, on page 37, maps to parts 2-6 on the water-pump diagram on page 36).

I'll look at the thread you linked. Thank you!

(if anyone knows the Kubota number off the top of their head, feel free to chime in...)

Bruce

Follow-up on 5421

Well, I was just killing time and did some searching. The D-850 block was used in the B1550 Kubota tractor.

I got some 5432 parts from Jennings Equipment in Puyallup. Good parts guy there. Prices about a third below Gallery. They can order, ship, etc., if you don't have a closer alternative. Jennings has links to the Kubota parts look up site that requires a tractor model or serial number. I went in on the B1550 and found a 3-cylinder engine in there. The pictures are pretty good and you can zoom them for a better look. There are two possible water pump parts, based on the serial number. Good luck

Just found this thread on a Catalina site.

Seems to show that the Universal pump (part #300203) is Kubota part number 15534-73030

Also note: according to that thread, the M25 is a Kubota D850; the M25xp is a Kubota D950

Will see if I can confirm independently

D850

Bruce, I have 32-3 #637, and it has the D850 Kubota diesel. I have been able to get parts from my local Kubota dealer referencing that number. On the top of the block near the injector pump you will find the number D850 with a serial number following it. The Kubota dealer may want to have the serial number as there were several changes made during the D850 run.
Phil Nelson
1985 E 32-3
Valkyrie

Bruce,

I just did this 2 weeks ago with the water pump. Here's what I found:

All the marine dealers charge $385 for the pump (Univ part # 300203). I wasn't going to buy from them.

Kumar Bros (http://www.kumarbrosusa.com/kubota/kubota-parts.html) sells knock-off Kubota parts. Their pump for the D850 engine is $65.00 with free shipping. I didn't feel great about a knock-off version but all the reviews I read from people who used them said they are fine. The thought is; you buy 2 pumps from Kumar, save $250, and you then have a spare.

I bought the factory Kubota pump from Jennings Equipment in Puyallup. It cost $118.00. The part number has changed over the years. They sold me part #15534-73030 for the pump, and 15676-73430 for the gasket. Perfect fit. See this post: (http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?15022-Water-Pump-Woes). Their service department told me they always use a thin coat (use your finger) of gray RTV on both sides of the gasket. I used Permatex Water Pump Gasket Maker for this—buy it at any auto part store.

I looked for Kubota in your area—try Sound Tractor in Everett 425-252-3139. Says they stock and can order Kubota parts.

My take is that the M25 is a Kubota D850, the M25XP is a D950. Many of the external parts (water pump for example) are the same for both. Internal engine components differ as I think the M25XP has slightly larger displacement. The Kubota part numbers seem to vary from year to year. The water pump was a perfect fit. The thermostat did not fit. If you can take your part in with you, you can compare before you buy. Jennings Equip even refunded me for several parts I returned that didn’t fit, so they are great to work with.

Good luck,

Ken

Kenneth K said:

The water pump was a perfect fit. The thermostat did not fit.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Kenneth!

A couple of quick follow-ups....

-- when you say the thermostat didn't fit, do you mean there was some sort of interference with the new pump? If I'm reading diagrams correctly, the thermostat is in the block near the water pump, but isn't actually a part of the pump assembly.... or am I missing something?

-- did you order new hoses when you did your water pump, or re-use existing?

-- and, in case I'm asked for my engine serial number to confirm the right pump... where the heck is it? I'm told that on the block below the injector body there will be a number plate with "D850-" and a serial number. I've looked (as best I can) all around that area on the starboard side of the block and can't find it.

Bruce

About the thermostat.... you are correct, it has nothing to do with changing out the water pump. It was something I changed out on a previous job. When I did the part number cross-reference for the thermostat, the part Kubota gave me was not the same as my Universal's (slightly smaller, with a different gasket). I ended up buying the Universal thermostat from Westerbeke.com (at twice the price).

About the hoses:

-The smaller, upper hose on my engine (about 4" long and molded with a bend in it) goes directly to the thermostat housing. On most Ericsons I see, this hose goes aft to the water heater. I replaced this short, bent hose with the corresponding Kubota part--perfect fit.

-The larger, lower hose (about 7/8-1") has a 90 deg bend and connects to a longer hose that goes to the heat exchanger. I had a new hose that came with my alternator bracket kit, so I used that one. I wanted a spare, though, so I ordered the similar part from Kubota (about $10). It's not quite the same as the Universal part, but I can probably make it work in a pinch. The original, lower hose is available from Westerbeke.com for about $30. I'll see if I can find the part #.


If your hoses are in good shape, you might be able to re-use them, but the cost of failure is high, so I'd change them if they look aged.

About the serial number on the injector pump: I've never been able to find mine. You won't need it for the water pump (the D850, D950, and some other engines all use the same pump). For other parts, the serial number might make a difference.

FWIW, when I checked the oil the other day, I noticed there is some kind of serial number stamped on the dipstick, too. I don't know if this number is relevant. Maybe someone else can tell me.

Lower Water Pump Hose Elbow

The Univ/Westerbeke part number for the lower water pump elbow hose is 302086. If you have the Parts Manual (see Footrope's link), it does NOT show this hose on the "Water Flange Group" (page 32) where you would expect to find it. Go to page 46 for the Alternator Mount Conversion Kit. Here they show the proper hose. It's $34.00 at Westerbeke.com.

FWIW, on my M-25XP the OEM pump had a male fitting threaded port for the water heater fitting where the Kubota pump had a hose barb. I used the barb with a small hose and a union to get to the proper hose size as can be seen in the pic.

Parking some useful references

Found a site called "kubotabooks.com", which has PDFs of Kubota manuals available for free download.

http://kubotabooks.com/AutoIndex/

Under the "engines" directory, there is a service manual for the "70mm stroke" engines, which includes the D850/M25

http://kubotabooks.com/AutoIndex/index.php?dir=Engines/&file=70mm stroke enginemanual.pdf

...and one for the D950 motor (M25XP) which includes part numbers

http://kubotabooks.com/AutoIndex/index.php?dir=Engines/&file=D950 engine..pdf

Under the "tractor parts manuals" directory, the manual for the B1550D has parts diagrams for the D850/M25 motor (including the part numbers for specific serial-number ranges)

http://kubotabooks.com/AutoIndex/index.php?dir=Tractor Parts Manuals/&file=B1550D.pdf

There's also an owner's manual for the B1550 tractor (which uses the D850 motor) in the "tractor owners manual" director. Less germane, but still some bits of interest (eg, maintenance schedule)

Bruce

More questions

With any luck, I'll have my new water pump in hand tomorrow, so... game on.

A couple of questions occurred to me as I ponder the process, though...

1) the old pump makes an interesting "crunchy" sound when it turns. Is there any possibility that there are metal bits in the coolant passages in the block (or elsewhere in the system)? Are there things I can or should do to clear them out?

2) is it a good idea to have a spare fresh-water pump, or is this a once-in-a-blue-moon item? I noticed (sorry if this narcs anyone out) that none of the boats at the PNW rendezvous had a spare, so wondering how high on the list I should place one.

3) what's the right kind of coolant? Some sources recommend "pink", some prefer "purple", current is gatorade-green....

_/)_
Bruce

Hey Bruce,

Your question about carrying a spare is a good one. I would normally consider this to be a once in a blue moon event that happens only after MANY years of service on the pump. Pretty much like a car water pump going out. After all you are just circulating coolant around. There is more chance for a raw water pump to fail in case your raw water intake filter fails and you suck up something nasty (which is why I had a spare RW but no spare coolant pump).

If you are just sailing around the PNW on vacation, you are never more than a day's sail away from some marina you can pull into and fix get a fix going. Especially if you are comfortable coming in on sail alone as you obviously were. If you are planning an extended trip offshore where this is your generator or heading to parts unknown, then maybe yes. But that's about it I'd think.

Glad you are getting her put back together. You should be enjoying the nice weather for sailing now, not stuck with your head in the engine compartment.

Good Luck!

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

A brief update. I called "sound tractor" this week, asked about the parts I needed, they came up with the same Kubota part numbers Ken cited and said they had them in stock.

Went there this this morning and learned that "in stock", in their vernacular, means "in stock at their distribution center, and should be in my hands by Wednesday"

sigh

so I'll probably do all the prep work tomorrow - drain the system, pull the old pump, etc.

...unless leaving the coolant loop open and empty for a week in a marine environment would be A Bad Thing (rust?)

Any insights?

Hey Bruce, I found one of the more ttime consming tasks was scraping off the old gasket and brushing the surface smooth. I used an RTV sealer on both sides of the gasket, too.

As far as the antifreeze, Prestone, like I used, is yellow. I think Peak is blue. I'd always buy a better brand,I as they have rust inhibitors.

I think you're okay leaving it partially drained for a few days. I left mine like that for a few weeks, and I did see signs of rust forming at the level where the antifreeze met the air, so I wouldn't recommend leaving it for several weeks.

Good luck.

Nobody should have to pay more than $60- $70 Dollars for M25 Coolant Pump

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FRHYQBY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just put this one on last week and it fit perfectly. Save old pulley to use on new pump.

Doug

Achievement unlocked

After the delay in getting parts ("I don't think 'in stock' means what you think it means..."), I got my parts on Friday.

I ordered the following from Sound Tractor, the local Kubota dealer
-- 15534-73030 (water pump for D850 engine / B1550 tractor)
-- 15676-73430 (gasket)
-- 15852-73340 (water pipe fitting for top of pump)
-- 15531-73350 (hose between pump and thermostat housing)

Total cost about $150, for OEM Kubota parts.

I ended up not needing the last two items; the pipe fitting because the pump came with that already installed, the hose because my water heater feed/return uses those two fittings.

Pump was a perfect replacement for what came off the 1985 M25 motor.



Installation was easy, even for me (I have approximately zero skills with motors). About the only hiccup was that I forgot to fully drain the coolant using the petcock low on the block, so when the lower hose came off I spilled coolant into the sump under the engine. Oh well.

On recommendation from KennethK, I used a thin layer of Permatex "water pump gasket maker" on each side of the paper gasket. Probably superfluous, but what the heck. The surface of the pump mount on the block was not perfectly smooth, I dressed it as well as I could with a bronze brush to make sure I had a bright surface, and from there I figured the Permatex would deal with any imperfections. The instructions for the Permatex were to spread a thin layer, tighten fasteners finger tight until the compound oozes out slightly all around, let it sit for an hour, then tighten the fasteners to spec and leave it for 24 hours before introducing fluids.

That last part was hard - I really wanted this thing *running* again.



I couldn't find a torque spec for the water pump bolts. Not sure how critical it is to have the exact right torque...?

Somewhere along the way I also replaced the coolant-bleed petcock on top of the thermostat housing. The old one was not opening, happily the nearby chandlery had one and it was an easy replacement.

Having time on my hands, I also replaced heat-exchanger zinc, cleaned the end-caps, checked the transmission fluid, a few other things.

And I also installed a coolant expansion/overflow tank. Boat didn't have one - there was a piece of tubing coming out from under the pressure-cap, but the other end was just laying down in the sump under the motor. Got a tank from the auto-parts store for 7 bucks, hung it on the bulkhead just aft of the manifold and connected up the tubing.

Along the way, I discovered a delight at the bottom of the motor. Someone (Christian? Prior owner? Not sure, but I have a strange and powerful love for whoever it was) installed an elbow in place of the oil-pan plug, and attached a couple of feet of red rubber hose to it, with a plug at the end. I discovered the end of it zip-tied into an interior corner of the galley cabinet. Took it down and unplugged it, and oil started draining out.... no more pumping oil out through the dipstick hole with a tiny tiny hose!

Sunday afternoon, back to the boat. Bolted on the pulley wheel, installed and tightened the belt, added a bunch of coolant, and started it up. Ran smooth, no leaks, and most importantly no horrible screeching noise like the last time it had been run.



Shut it down, topped up coolant, doubled-up docklines, restarted it and ran it - in forward - at about 2000 RPM for 15 minutes. Came up to temp nicely and stayed there, no weird noises, no leaks. Bled air out of the petcock, filled the new coolant overflow tank halfway, and called it good. Next up is to take it out and run the motor under load for a couple of hours, just to make sure all is well.

On to the next thing....

Edited to add:

Kenneth K said:

As far as the antifreeze, Prestone, like I used, is yellow.

Click to expand...

I ended up using the Prestone 50/50 pre-mix. It said "good for any small engine, compatible with any color antifreeze.

The guy at the Kubota place told me to be sure I got antifreeze that was "diesel-rated"... but then wanted to sell me the exact same Prestone stuff. I asked around at the auto-parts store, they said the only antifreeze that is "diesel rated" is designed for high-mileage/high-compression truck motors, and it's not needed for small motors like ours.

Anyway, I drained it, filled it with new Prestone, and I figure I'll drain and refill it again after a couple of hours of run-time.... probably overkill, but a relatively cheap way for me to make sure I "know" what is in it and what kind of shape it is in.

A job well done.....

I like the recovery tank.

I asked Kubota about a torque spec for the bolts. They told me "not required". With a dry paper gasket, it might be more important to check that, regardless of the amount of torque, that the bolts were tightened evenly. With a gasket + RTV sealant, I'd bet you're fine as is.

Such wonderful access on the 32-3. Loved that engine.

The horrible screeching noise which drove me nuts approaching Hawaii is now finally identified and solved by Bruce.

Wasn't me who put the elbow for drain hose from the oil pan. Never knew it was there. Darn!

Why comment six years later? Drawn here by a link in today's discussion of V-belt tension--testimony to Ericsonyachts.org links, which never go bad.