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rudder clunking/chafe

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cooper999

Member II
Hey all,

We fairly recently got re-splashed after some work in spring. Yesterday while visiting the boat, while turning the wheel, there was noticeable "clunking" and some resistance on the wheel as the rudder passed through the centerline. Looking below at where the cables from the pedestal wrap around the rudder post, there appears to be some wobble, and there is the sound of some chafing I assume where the top edge of the rudder passes across the fin above at the centerline of the transom.

This is concerning to me, but I'm not sure what the problem or cause could be. We certainly haven't had any collisions/groundings to have caused any misalignment (if that's what's going on). Could the yard have bumped the rudder against something while on the lift or up on jacks, etc.? We have a weekender planned in a couple of weeks and I wouldn't want to put us in a bad position. Curious if others have had or seen a similar issue.

Thanks-
 
Afrakes

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Chafing

There should be a large diameter, approximately 1/8"-1/4" thick, plastic washer between the rudder and the hull which prevents the rudder from riding up against the hull. Is that still there? They can get cracked and fall out.
 
C

cooper999

Member II
Afrakes,

I appreciate your response. I assume this washer would be mounted exteriorly? We're in Baltimore, so I wouldn't want to dive to check if so. Attached is a photo of the rudder/hull from a month ago. Looking a little grungy.

IMG_9645.jpgIMG_9645.jpg

Afrakes said:
There should be a large diameter, approximately 1/8"-1/4" thick, plastic washer between the rudder and the hull which prevents the rudder from riding up against the hull. Is that still there? They can get cracked and fall out.
Click to expand...
 
Afrakes

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Chafing

The washer is absent and that might be the reason that with the rudder centered you are getting resistance. Old foam filled rudders, even those that have absorbed water, still possess some buoyancy which can cause them to float up against the hull. Take a look at the juncture of the quadrant and rudder stuffing box. On my 28 there is another plastic washer between those elements. If you see a gap between the quadrant and box then that would be evidence that the rudder is riding up.
 
C

cooper999

Member II
At the boat boat now and have verified the rudder is floating up. The interior washer between the quadrant and the fiberglass tube is still there and in good shape, but opening the emergent tiller port and pushing down on the rudder closes the gap and results in smooth steering.

is there any way to address this without hauling/dropping the rudder? Something seems "loose."

Afrakes said:
The washer is absent and that might be the reason that with the rudder centered you are getting resistance. Old foam filled rudders, even those that have absorbed water, still possess some buoyancy which can cause them to float up against the hull. Take a look at the juncture of the quadrant and rudder stuffing box. On my 28 there is another plastic washer between those elements. If you see a gap between the quadrant and box then that would be evidence that the rudder is riding up.
Click to expand...
 
Afrakes

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Maintaining the gap

See what you can place between the access plate and the top of the rudder post to keep the rudder from riding up. If you can easily push it down you should be able to rig up a spacer until you haul out next fall and get a spacer washer installed.
 
C

cooper999

Member II
Thanks again. I will see what might work for that (hockey puck?;)

i also noticed the screws between the bronze flanges are very loose. Would it be worth snugging these down some?

Afrakes said:
See what you can place between the access plate and the top of the rudder post to keep the rudder from riding up. If you can easily push it down you should be able to rig up a spacer until you haul out next fall and get a spacer washer installed.
Click to expand...
 
Afrakes

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Rudder stuffing box

If you are referring to the three machine screws between the upper and lower portions of the rudder stuffing box, yes tighten them up. This will prevent water from being driven out of the stuffing box when under sail or motoring. If you have a grease fitting on your frp rudder tube it would be a good idea to pump some grease in there as well. The sun is finally coming out here time to go sailing.
 
Last edited:
C

cooper999

Member II
Thanks again for your help in diagnosing this. Much obliged!

Afrakes said:
If you are referring to the three machine screws between the upper and lower portions of the rudder stuffing box, yes tighten them up. This will prevent water from being driven out of the stuffing box when under sail or motoring. If you have a grease fitting on your frp rudder tube it would be a good idea to pump some grease in there as well. The sun is finally coming out here time to go sailing.
Click to expand...
 
p.gazibara

p.gazibara

Member III
We recently had this issue on Cinderella. After racing swiftsure, one of our thrust washers (I believe that is what the part is called) decintegrated.

Shocker what 20 years of lack of maintanence will do to plastic...

I don't believe my rudder or stock or tube are original, but it wasn't the worst job ever to replace the thrust washers on our setup.

We slung a heavy canvas bag under the rudder to either side of the boat and pulled the tiller head off. (I wasn't sure if the rudder would float or not and didn't want it sliding out) then I dove down and pulled down on the rudder as someone pushed down from above and the rudder slipped right out. We used the canvas bag to prevent it from sinking. As the rudder came out of the boat, I tied two lines to the shaft then removed the bag and pulled the rudder out completely.

Itt was buoyancy neutral, but I sure was glad I tied lines to it so I could pull it up on the dock.

We then took the washers to a machine shop and had new washers made out of delrin instead of UHMW plastic. (going directly to interstate plastics to get a delrin rod short saved us at least $150)

We have two washers between the rudder and the hull and hull and two washers between the tiller head and the alignment plate above. (Four total)

I'll be doing a blog write up soon if you are interested. It wasn't the worst job, and we didn't have to haulout to get it fixed.

cheers
-p
 
p.gazibara

p.gazibara

Member III
Here are some photos of the washers/rudderstock
 

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C

cooper999

Member II
Thanks very much for the detailed info. Pretty sure we will need to be hauled to drop the rudder in our Ericson 30+, and rig something in the meantime to keep it from floating up per Afrakes' input, which I'm working on now.

p.gazibara said:
We recently had this issue on Cinderella. After racing swiftsure, one of our thrust washers (I believe that is what the part is called) decintegrated.

Shocker what 20 years of lack of maintanence will do to plastic...

I don't believe my rudder or stock or tube are original, but it wasn't the worst job ever to replace the thrust washers on our setup.

We slung a heavy canvas bag under the rudder to either side of the boat and pulled the tiller head off. (I wasn't sure if the rudder would float or not and didn't want it sliding out) then I dove down and pulled down on the rudder as someone pushed down from above and the rudder slipped right out. We used the canvas bag to prevent it from sinking. As the rudder came out of the boat, I tied two lines to the shaft then removed the bag and pulled the rudder out completely.

Itt was buoyancy neutral, but I sure was glad I tied lines to it so I could pull it up on the dock.

We then took the washers to a machine shop and had new washers made out of delrin instead of UHMW plastic. (going directly to interstate plastics to get a delrin rod short saved us at least $150)

We have two washers between the rudder and the hull and hull and two washers between the tiller head and the alignment plate above. (Four total)

I'll be doing a blog write up soon if you are interested. It wasn't the worst job, and we didn't have to haulout to get it fixed.

cheers
-p
Click to expand...
 
C

cooper999

Member II
9C4BCFF4-BA0A-4FD8-A3C1-C5CA70F6FBA8.jpgA bit of a late follow-up on this one, but here the spacer setup I rigged to keep the rudder from floating up and chafing. I orders some large diameter steel washers from Grainger (I think they go on large agricultural equipment) and placed them on top of the rudder post in the access portal, then screwed the lid back in.

It’s been doing the job, but I wanted to get opinions on whether or not this looks like a potential safety issue. I greased the washers (I think there are two in there as memory serves) and will re-grease before the season, but does this raise any red flags? Worst fear would be the washers seizing up somehow, freezing the rudder in position. I’d prefer not to haul until Fall, but if this doesn’t pass the laugh test, will go ahead and take care of it in spring.
 
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