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Newbie minutes from 32-2 purchase with questions.... mainly, should I?!

Airsailor

Junior Member
Gentlefolk,

A friend told me of a 1975 E32-2 for sale locally (NYC / Hudson River area) last week. He was enthused because the boat appears to be in good, "sail-away" condition and is being offered for $3600. My wife and I each sailed small boats as kids, and have dreamed of sailing again on a cruising boat like this. Suddenly, it seems that the boat is "arriving" in our lives, and we are very excited about beginning this adventure of sailing and maintaining/improving the vessel, and sharing this with our young son. I have some very basic knowledge of sailing but this will be a very large step -- and part of the pleasure will be all the new stuff there is to learn. Our goal is to become competent sailors and spend some time each August cruising in Long Island Sound, and perhaps ultimately cruising the Maine islands, where I am from.The trade-off for me is that I will sacrifice much of my recreational time now spent flying sailplanes, but it's time for a family activity instead of my taking off solo in the glider all afternoon every weekend.

I have looked over the boat for about an hour, and have plans to sail it with the 70-year-old gal who owns it in two days. She was a sailing instructor and is absolutely passionate about sailing and this boat, and she is eager to sail with us as the new owners and to teach us. Her main interest seems to be in finding the right person to take over the boat from her -- someone who will love it as she does, and she says the money is immaterial. The boat is very clean and the interior is quite beautiful; she takes pride in it. Her 79-year-old husband was a professional captain of a 125' tour boat and he, somewhat grudgingly, helped her maintain it, particularly maintaining the Universal diesel which was installed in 1996. She has owned the boat since 1998, and has only used it for day sails on the Hudson, never cruised with it. She is selling because he can no longer help her with it, and she can't find people to sail it with and will not single-hand it, after a bad fall while doing so some years back. We would plan to leave it at it's present slip for the remainder of the season, and consider moving it closer to NYC next year, unless we opt to keep it right where it is. Estimated costs per year at the current marina for slip and dry dock are $3000, which we can afford.

I am a sculptor, good with tools and have a comprehensive shop and fair bit of mechanical ability. I'm not daunted by the type of work I anticipate doing on a boat, but I am trying to get a handle on just how much of that work will be necessary to ensure that this 42-year-old vessel is safe, particularly as we move toward cruising. I have the sense that the $3600 price tag is basically what I would pay in order to start spending time and money for years to come.... The attraction of the low price is that this seems like a low-risk way for us to try-out sailing on this scale. If we keep the investment low initially, we can opt-out down the road and sell the boat for a song. If we fall in love with it, we can improve the vessel, or move up to a more modern vessel with a more modern price tag.

Here are the problems I noted on my first visit, listed in order of seriousness, as I see it, or guess at it, I should say:

The starboard forward inner chainplate that is bolted to the bulkhead has allowed water infiltration and there is an area of about 6" by 6" at the top of the bulkhead that is rotted and soft. The chainplate has 5 large bolts securing it to the bulkhead and the lower three are in good wood. The owner had no awareness of this issue and has never re-bedded anything except one leaking stanchion. My sense is that I could install large stainless doubler plates on either side of the bulkhead and rebolt the chainplate to the beefed-up structure, and that this could be an adequate fix. Obviously I would re-seal the deck penetration. I did not check to see if the balsa deck core is soft in this area, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were. There are likely other areas where the deck is soft as well, and I will explore that next. The corresponding port chainplate/bulkhead connection is solid and dry.

I found two other small areas of rotted wood, neither stuctural, both easily remedied. I think the larger issue is that everything on the deck needs to be re-bed. Everything.

There's some significant gel coat cracks in the deck in various places. They appear to me to be cosmetic issues for the most part. However, there are many cracks in the several square feet surrounding the area where the mast is stepped. This suggests to me that there has been considerable stressing of the deck in this area, obvious as there is not a compression pole between mast and keel. I don't know if this is represents any kind of structural or safety issue, or if it is purely cosmetic. The cracks are random in pattern, they are not radiating out from the base of the mast nor in some kind of pattern that demonstrates failure of the underlying structure. My sense is that I would eventually want to install a compression member under the mast, especially if we get to the point of sailing in some weather.

The compass was damaged when the boat came out of the water sometime ago and was not repaired or replaced -- it needs a new one. There is a windspeed/direction instrument that apparently only functions when wind is 15 knots or more. One of the lights on the lower spreader is broken and needs replacing. There are a few minor issues with cabinetry.

The stainless pulpit at the bow took a hit at some point and some tubing is deformed and it's bent a bit out of shape, not terrible but not quite right -- I'd probably want to repair or replace the pulpit at some point.

The PO says she always wanted to replace the port lights with ones that open completely for better cross-ventilation. The existing port lights are difficult to open and appear to only open by sliding half-way.

The gel coat overall has lost it's shine but is not especially chalky -- just looks a bit aged. I can live with it. The bottom has not been painted for maybe five years. The PO says it hasn't needed it, after powerwashing when it goes into drydock each fall. I would plan to sand and repaint myself when needed.

The good stuff: The 30 HP Universal engine has had regular oil changes and filter changes and has been run regularly for short periods for getting in and out of the marina. It hasn't been run for hours at a time while cruising. I didn't note the engine hours but will next, and I suspect they are very low. The engine started immediately and sounds good. It looks about like I'd expect a 20-year-old engine to look, and there was a small bit of oil under it, but nothing alarming. The engine mounts are sound. I would do a bit of degreasing and cleaning and expect it will operate well. The throttle handle at the helm needs attention -- it slips and the PO has attached a bungee to keep some friction on it so it stays in place while operating.

The boat was significantly and cleanly re-wired and has a larger panel with 6 additional circuits and breakers. The main battery switch was replaced and relocated to the side of the battery compartment and battery wiring replaced. All well done work.

The standing rigging appears sound to me, as does the running rigging. This only means that I didn't see any obvious problems and everything is intact and functioning and looks like stainless steel ought to, to my eye. They tune the rigging every season with a Loos gauge. All the lines are in decent shape, and the PO says the sails are quite good with years of life left. I will see them when we sail. They are: Dura Mainsail 5.9 Dacron 2+2 - 1 reef, Doyle 2001 and Dura Genoa 150% with UV 8.3 Dacron Doyle 2009. It has self-tailing winches.

The bilge was dry and has a new pump installed. There is a recent potable water pump. I believe there is a hot water system.

It has a Garmin 182C mounted on an arm at the companionway so visible from helm or interior, and a Uniden VHS.

The PO has the orignal sail plan, electrical plan, plumbing plan, boat diagram, owner's manual, parts list, and the survey she had done when she purchased it in 1998, stating that it was in excellent condition with no significant issues. It has a Dodger and extension that she removed and stored, a whisker pole, swim ladder, and sail bags.

Overall, the boat is clean. It can be prettied up. But it's a functioning Ericson 32-2 for $3600.

I am looking for a sanity check from this vastly experienced and knowlegable community. My concern is that I could wind-up sinking too much time and money into this boat, and I wonder if I might be better off buying something in truly excellent condition from the start. On the other hand, this feels like a really good way to enter the world of sailing without raiding my kid's college fund, or having to sell my sailplane. After writing this lengthy post, I've more-or-less convinced myself that this is a hell of a lot of sailboat for the price -- we actually have a folding kayak with a sailing rig that we paid more for!

I will greatly appreciate any input! Many thanks!

Paul Villinski
NYC
 

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Just Do It

When you buy an old boat you always end up spending too much time and money. That is a given. Having been down this path a number of times I can only say that if you love doing the work its worth it. Also, get yourself a "moaning chair" because you're going to need it. As a former sculptor you have my encouragement and sympathies. Being a little "nuts" helps. You have to be a little bit "off" to take things like this on.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
I have the same boat, six years older. Where in NYC are you, and where is the boat? This boat carries with it a lot of risk that the seller is (perhaps) unaware of that an unsuspecting buyer will end up being saddled with.

If an inexperienced boat owner can within an hour identify a range of bulkhead, deck, mast step, and hardware bedding issues, it is clear that the current owner has blithely overlooked structural maintenance for many years and there is probably even more to be found. This is what makes boats with nice chartplotters and stereo systems break from their moorings during storms, sink in the middle of the night, and have masts fall down at inconvenient times. The concern you should look into as a buyer is whether you can get insurance for this boat. The marina/yacht club will almost certainly require insurance, and insurance companies will require a survey to write the policy. Surveyors will not/cannot look kindly on a boat riddled with structural deficiencies. This can leave a new owner on the hard permanently.

From your description this boat may not be sellable to anyone in its current state because it will not survey well enough. That's not to say it can't be fixed, but it makes no sense to hand it, $15-30k, and an indeterminate amount of time to a yard to repair.

But that's where you come in. Perhaps you offer to pay a year's slip and storage fee, fix the boat, use it if you can, and if it passes survey she gives it to you. If it doesn't pass survey, she scraps it. Cash flow is the same to her. The difference is if the boat cannot be made insurable, it's her problem, not yours, to dispose of. That's fair because the situation was of her doing. That might not be the best use of your $3k and a bunch of hours of your labor...a hundred hours, easily more. She takes the risk that this dawns on you partway through the process. There are a lot of boats out there in ripped-up condition where this realization clearly took place. That is why the "right" price for this boat might be $0, or even less.

These repairs are not difficult, they're just labor-intensive, so, impractically expensive to have done by a yard. I can personally confirm that an enthusiastic DIYer (and a boat partner) can absolutely handle them, though perhaps not to Bristol cosmetic standards, and I wouldn't suggest starting with the mast step; that one was a hassle and triggered a lot of while-we're-at-it projects. We're in the middle of a deck repair on my 1969 E32 that I would have called "undoable" when I bought the boat as a fresh college graduate in 1991, "major" ten years ago, and a "minor inconvenience in an area I knew was going to have to be addressed" now. As a sculptor you are probably a zillion times handier than I and my longsuffering boat partner were/are/ever will be, and you probably already have all the tools and a place to keep them. The power tools I've used are primarily a grinder, an orbital sander, an oscillating saw, a drill/drill press, and a table saw. You probably have five of each of these already.

I've documented the deck, bulkhead, and mast step repairs here over the years, but if you want to see a deck repair in process, PM me and I'd be happy to meet up with you on City Island tomorrow.
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
Lots of bulkhead replacement discussion here:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5178-Chainplates-and-Bulkhead-replace

The mother of all core repairs on an E27:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...?14151-E27-deck-core-replacement-amp-painting

Mast step repair - this triggered a mast stripping and repainting, a mast rewire, new halyards and sheaves at the top of the mast, etc:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...?13256-Seeking-advice-on-E32-mast-step-repair

Cockpit deck repair:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-E32-cockpit-core-repair-an-illustrated-guide
 
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Airsailor

Junior Member
Hi Tender,

Thanks very much for you input. I'm in Long Island City and the boat is in Kingston, at Hide Away Marina. The current owner says insurance is not required and hasn't been. I gather it is required in City Island?
I take your point about there likely being many other issues that will reveal themselves over time. At the moment, I believe the only structural issue is the bulkhead/chainplate issue, which appears to me to be a relatively easy fix, but I would want to discuss strategy with someone more knowledgeable. The thing that gives me pause is the 42 year old standing rigging. What have you done to ensure yours is seaworthy?
I think the initial idea would be to fix the bulkhead/chainplate thing, re-bed anything obviously leaking, install a new compass, and sail it. Keep initial investment of time and money to a minimum, until we are sure of it. Then address cosmetics and other stuff in a gradual way.

I'd love to visit you and your E32, but we are planning to sail "Mistral" tomorrow. Perhaps I can meet up with you in City Island another time. I will definitely read through all you posts here about the work you've done on your boat. I will also consider discussing other arrangements with the current owner regarding my taking the boat over. Thanks again--
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hi Tender,

Thanks very much for you input. I'm in Long Island City and the boat is in Kingston, at Hide Away Marina. The current owner says insurance is not required and hasn't been. I gather it is required in City Island?
I take your point about there likely being many other issues that will reveal themselves over time. At the moment, I believe the only structural issue is the bulkhead/chainplate issue, which appears to me to be a relatively easy fix, but I would want to discuss strategy with someone more knowledgeable. The thing that gives me pause is the 42 year old standing rigging. What have you done to ensure yours is seaworthy?
I think the initial idea would be to fix the bulkhead/chainplate thing, re-bed anything obviously leaking, install a new compass, and sail it. Keep initial investment of time and money to a minimum, until we are sure of it. Then address cosmetics and other stuff in a gradual way.

I'd love to visit you and your E32, but we are planning to sail "Mistral" tomorrow. Perhaps I can meet up with you in City Island another time. I will definitely read through all you posts here about the work you've done on your boat. I will also consider discussing other arrangements with the current owner regarding my taking the boat over. Thanks again--

A note about insurance -- around here it was not required or at least not much verified 20 years ago. After a series of disastrous marina fires, I doubt that any marina or yacht club in the whole NW will let you tie up without actual proof of insurance that covers "wreck removal" (in case of sinking) and "pollution abatement" for the expensive in-water work required when fuel or oil goes into the water. Insured value is where boat owners can take on their own risk to a degree and lower their premiums -- some opting for liability only coverage.

As to the joys and labors inherent in rescuing a boat, Tenders has covered it quite well. I know of sailors that have brought back boats arguably worse than the one you describe, but it took a lot of labor.
One the plus side, it led to a lot of learning, too! :)

Good luck,
Loren

ps: invoke gratuitous movie reference about "loving the smell of resin in the morning! It smells like.... Victory!"
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
Old standing rigging should be evaluated one component at a time across its entire length. Some use penetrating dyes and X-rays for this, some use visual inspection. Whatever shows any signs of pitting or brittleness needs to be replaced. If not, it's as OK as you can say. Replacing a piece or two at a time is not too difficult or expensive, and can often be done with the mast up. Replacing it all is a whole project.

I would suggest looking very carefully at the mast step. The fiberglass is very thick there and if it's truly fracturing (instead of its gelcoat crazing) one has to wonder about the integrity of the underlying plywood beam. Is the overhead warping below the mast, is the hinged door to the head binding up, are the turnbuckles cranked down really far because the mast is sinking, etc.

Every yacht club, marina, or mooring field I've kept a boat at has required liability insurance. And if you're around boats long enough you'll personally encounter enough boat fires, docking/mooring screwups, storm breakaways, and winter storage domino effects to realize that any boat has the potential to trigger a lot of litigation. There are undoubtedly two sides to this but I would personally not own an uninsured or uninsurable boat, or keep one at a place that did not require others to carry insurance.
 
I have a 32-2 and I reckon they are great boats. The chainplate/bulkhead should be replaced soon. You can do it cheaply or expensively. Don't cut corners though. Demasting because of a failed chainplate is not fun. You need to make sure the diesel is in tip top shape before travel to your marina. Insurance should be doable - progressive does not require a survey.

Everything else is doable if you are keen to put some sweat equity into the process. If you have marinas do the work for you then no go. You will be broke before you know it.

Based on everything you mention I would budget a $15k budget for a refit (maybe new sails as well... so you can enjoy sailing it.. - does it have a fuller?) I am in Seabright NJ if you want to see what my wife and I did with our 32-2. We spend most of the summer on it. Have fridge we fine the size of the boat just perfect for 2 people. We have taken it to Block island last yr and stayed there 1 week on the hook. The solar panels charged the batteries adequately to keep the fridge running - we did not turn the motor on even once. But the price to pay on that very low storage 70's design.... we have no quarter berth...

The PO repaired the leaking chainplate and bulkhead on our boat. He build the remaining plywood with fiberglass and epoxy. It looks really good.

Go for a sail. If you like it, then it's worth as the price is good, and the boats were solidly built. One thing you should read about - the original boat design had the rudder very undersized. Our boat does not the rudder pictured in the schematics, but the longer one that someone evidently designed as the boat was used for racing at one point. I would look into that, as I heard the stock rudder makes the boat behave badly downwind or broad reach with a following sea. We love saying this boat - it likes to heel quickly but then it stays there. Don't be freaked out by that. It was designed to trick the racing rules. Heeling quickly increases the waterline and the boat picks up speed immediately. Make sure you plus wife are not adverse to heeling...
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
My concern is that I could wind-up sinking too much time and money into this boat, and I wonder if I might be better off buying something in truly excellent condition from the start. On the other hand, this feels like a really good way to enter the world of sailing without raiding my kid's college fund, or having to sell my sailplane.

I reread your well-reasoned remarks. Allow me to remark further on what I believe are realities.

Everything you mention in your personal survey is doable by you, and you will enjoy it, but it will take a great deal of time, and a total commitment over a number of years. If the portlights need to be recaulked, the boat leaks when it rains. All the old gear will predictably fail just when it shouldn't. All of our boats have these issues, which is why a new one costs 150K. A boat with a resale value of $3600 has been priced by the market to be worth $3600. Boats are hard to sell.

As a glider pilot, you undoubtedly have a nose for perfection, are trained to rely on gear and skill, and well understand the nature of weather and planning. I don;t think you will be satisfied with a boat that needs a lot of work you don't really intend to do, because doing it wouldn't be logical and would be ridiculously expensive. I don;t think you can tolerate, with your family, head plumbing that smells bad and a toilet that needs its joker vale changed, deck blocks that don't turn, worn out upholstery, crazed hatches and systems that are are the brink of failure.

For many of us, such a boat is a great adventure. I had many of them myself. I learned a lot. I made all the mistakes and it was probably the mistakes that taught me the most about it all. I wouldn't trade the experience.

But at the time I wasn't in a position to own a plane or pay 3K a year in slip fees. It would be all wrong for me now.

Here is why I said "You should look at more boats."

Of equivalent 32-foot boats, this is more or less true:

A $3600 boat needs $10,000 applied to achieve a selling price of $6000.

A $20,000 boat has had $20,000 put into it, for a total of $40,000 invested.

I'm estimating but not joking. Actually, the costs of existing improvements are profoundly undervalued by the market.

Bargain boats aren't bargains, they just have a lower entry price.

So, look at more boats.

Oh, and can you really keep flying and maintain a big sailboat, too? I couldn't. Hard to keep current on both.



 

Airsailor

Junior Member
Christian -- I already feel I'm getting to know you having watched a number of your inspired and inspiring videos -- thank you very much for your thoughts. All your points are well taken and I know they are true, particularly the business of improvements being undervalued by the resale market. I do, however, think it's possible that I "undersold" the condition of the boat and have given the wrong impression. I think it is also clear that people are making assumptions about the vessel based on its price. My friend, who cruises and lives aboard his boat and taught sailing for years in Annapolis, (and who, as a sailplane pilot, has the same perfectionist bent that you correctly identified in me,) told me about the boat enthusiastically because he couldn't believe the price, given the condition of the boat. He couldn't get over how "like new" the cabin is. This boat was well-loved by its owner of the last twenty years, a sailing instructor married to a professional captain. At 70 and 79 respectively, they are reluctantly letting go of the boat as it's become too difficult for her to find sailing partners and he no longer can work on it. We sailed it today -- before I handed over the princely sum of $3600 -- and everything works as it should. The head doesn't smell bad; the deck blocks don't not turn; the recent, deep blue upholstery is like new; the hatches are fine; the systems don't appear to be on the brink of failure, especially not the electrical which was very competently redone, nor the engine which has a total of 647 hours on it and has been well-maintained. The portlights are not leaking; the PO's suggestion to replace is solely to improve ventilation. The housekeeping has been thorough and their isn't a hint of mildew below decks. I didn't spot a line among all the running rigging that is at all ragged or needs replacement.

I spoke at length with a professional boat surveyor prior to looking at the boat a second time and subsequently sent him detailed photos. This fellow is also an expert composites guy, and after discussing the fine gelcoat cracks near the mast step that had concerned me (-- gelcoat cracks in sailplanes can often indicate that a wing spar has been over-stressed, for instance --) his considered opinion is that they are a complete non-issue. There is really one issue that needs attention and this is the chainplate connection a the bulkhead where rot has occurred toward the top of the bulkhead leaving two of the five bolts in soft wood -- a reasonably straight-forward fix to ensure it is safe. There is one stanchion that is allowing slight moisture in and I will re-bed that.

After reading about the 1/2" balsa cores in the decks becoming waterlogged and people tearing their decks up and rebuilding, I took pains to thoroughly inspect the deck on Mistral for soft spots, and couldn't find any at all, not even adjacent to the chainplate penetration that obviously leaked at some point. There is no work required on the deck.

I actually think there is less work needed than I guessed at initially, certainly far less pressing work. I do know 40 year old components and systems and things will fail. The surveyor suggested simply going slowly: if I decide to replace the standing rigging, do it a bit at a time. I should mention that this boat has lived entirely in fresh water -- I didn't find corrosion anywhere. I am going to have him survey it because I want an expert to fully evaluate the condition.

So my plan is to reinforce the bulkhead so that the chainplate connection is adequately strong, and replace the compass. I think that will set me back $500 - $600. I will also clean stuff, as I have found that cleaning old things is a way of making them mine and getting to know them. That should set me back an additional $20. I will make a very few very minor repairs and cosmetic improvements that will involve time and little else. I will buy Docksiders for myself and my wife and child.... And we will learn to sail it.

Everyone at the local sailing club is amazed that the PO is selling her beloved boat, and remarks that the price is crazy. When the marina manager asked her how much she wanted for the boat she said "thirty-six." He thought the price of $36,000 was a bit steep. Then it dawned on him that she meant $3,600. Everyone I've spoken to who knows the boat or has seen it says the price is ridiculous, and that there is no risk as it will easily sell for more. Does this make sense? Not particularly. Is it a good thing for a buyer like me? I think so, yes. I will mention that I am somewhat known in the local gliding community for having scored a beautiful example of a high-performance, self-launching German sailplane at a similarly ridiculous price. I knew I wanted this particular model. One day an ad appeared with a price that was extremely low, to the point of being suspicious. I was rushing to a professional commitment on the east coast and caught the elderly, west coast seller on the telephone. After speaking with him for ten minutes, without ever seeing the ship or even a photograph of it, I committed to buy it. Glider pilots roll their eyes in disbelief when the learn about this "bargain." Sometimes, one gets lucky. Sometimes the universe wants you to have something and more-or-less hands it to you. Is it possible that I've bought an old dog of a vessel "on the brink of failure," that will have me working on it endlessly trying to "make a silk purse from a sow's ear?" A proverbial hole in the water into which one throws handfuls of money? Yes, that is a distinct possibility. It is also possible that a kind old woman who loves sailing above all else wanted to give her solid boat to the right person, and I happened along and happen to be that person. Time will tell!

I will mention that we are striking up a fast friendship with the seller. She knows that our goal is to start cruising in Long Island Sound for a week or two at a time -- much like you did as a young man with your family. She has just arranged for a friend of hers who she describes as an engineer and a "sailing genius" to teach us to "sail, cruise, and be successful winners at nautical trivial pursuit...I am thrilled that he will coach you!" This gentleman, who we haven't even met, has already offered to give us three books about sailing, before we start with him in September. I don't know, does this sound like a typical sailboat transaction, or more like an adoption with subsequent mentoring? It certainly feels like the latter.

Can I both fly and sail and take care of a 40-year-old vessel? Can I resist my nature which is to constantly improve and care for the objects I choose to surround myself with? I don't know the answers yet. As a child I dreamed of both flying gliders and sailing (and living aboard!) a large sailboat. At 57, I find myself more and more engaged with the things that moved me as a 12-year-old. I also know that I want an activity and a passion that I can share with my little family, and that isn't climbing into the cockpit of my single-seat glider. You should have seen my 6-year-old's pleasure and fascination sailing "Mistral" today. (Yup, that's right, this 57-year-old has a 6-year-old -- I have never really done things the conventional way.) And my wife, who deeply loved sailing as a young person, is over the moon. This counts. Yes, I probably got a bad case of "sailboat fever" and now I'm on a bit of a pink cloud about this all. As we sailed this wonderful old sloop out into the Hudson and she heeled over in about 12 knots of wind, a great big door swung open for me. I think I will let myself enjoy it right now, regardless of how the story unfolds in the next year or two.

I'm quite sure I will read your book, all your blog posts, and watch every video, all of which are highly engaging and inspiring! Thank you!
 
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Airsailor

Junior Member
Shrewsburyduo -- Thanks very much for you comments and encouragement. The undersized rudder design will be interesting to learn about. I'd love to visit you and your 32 in NJ when we are back from travels in late August. I'm sure we could learn lots, especially as our hope is to rapidly progress in the sport to the point where we, too, will be cruising to places like Block Island and the Vineyard for sailing vacations in August in years to come. I'll contact you perhaps in September and arrange a visit. Many thanks!
 

alcodiesel

Bill McLean
Hello Air, welcome to the forum and to Ericson ownership. I had a feeling you were hooked from your first post. If you get half the enjoyment out of your boat as I do mine, you will be very happy. I am not quite in Christian's league but, I almost enjoy working on her more than sailing her. (Christian, I think enjoys fixing them up more as evidenced by Thelonious l). Best wishes with your new old boat!
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Congratulations! If you're moving the boat to Long Island Sound, do come look at the Harlem Yacht Club, which is on City Island, and has not been in Harlem for 100 years.

Benefits:
* Beautiful club with friendly members, restaurant, and gentleperson's racing program - mostly sailboat owners, just a few powerboats
* Great mooring area on the more-protected side of City Island
* Club-operated launch takes you to and from your boat
* Easy access from LI City
* Cost of membership/mooring/winter storage on par with what your previous owner mentioned, though there are some startup costs (mooring gear and potentially a cradle, if winter storage is done at the club)
* Winter storage at the club using the tidal railway - the E32 fits easily on the system. You can do your own maintenance, subject to some basic environmental precautions

I got a lot of work done on my deck recoring project yesterday so it doesn't look like open heart surgery any more, but it's still a pretty good mess if you'd like to see it.

Please note that the run from Kingston down the Hudson to NYC is more challenging than you might think due to river traffic, confusing construction at the Tappan Zee Bridge, and CURRENTS, which are treacherous south of the TZ. And the run up the East River towards LIS needs to be timed carefully. Do not do this on a new boat at night.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
OK, I'm sold.:)

(And the Harlem YC sounds great. We were at City Island YC for a while, a wonderful gateway to all of New England.)
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Upgrading Silk

And, fine with me too.
:egrin:

Further, a Bruce King Ericson was Never a "sow's ear"...
More like restoring an old silk purse to 'new purse' condition.
:)

I look forward to seeing pix of your boat in your Album here.

Loren
 

Airsailor

Junior Member
Phew! Good thing I've managed to sell you on the boat -- I really couldn't keep writing essays of that length! It will be amusing to see if I can abide by my plan to mostly restrain my impulse to improve the vessel, and just basically sail it and learn with it. You guys are sure to get a good chuckle when I start asking questions about where to source parts and materials, etc.! Ok, I'll come clean, I already want to fix the bent pulpit tubing -- it offends my aesthetic sense!

Tenders, City Island is extremely appealing, but I assumed too expensive -- perhaps not. My mother grew up there and spent summers as a teen crewing and cooking on some of the big sailboats that operated out of there. The family had a small restaurant that fed the boatyard workers, and lived above it, then left for Maine in 1956 because it was so similar to City Island.... There would be some poetry in my keeping a sailboat there now. And, don't worry, I know my limitations and I will take my time getting ready to sail down the Hudson, not remotely competent to do so now. When the time comes, I may find someone with some experience to guide us aboard the boat. We'll leave it in Kingston for now, which is actually a very nice scene, with the Clearwater a few hundred yards away, sailing club, marine museum, etc. But I know already I want to get her into salt water and more open expanses of water and steady winds. There are a few other options including the Williamsburg Yacht Club located just opposite LaGuardia -- it's a blue collar scene where you contribute some work to the club in lieu of higher fees. It's actually significantly cheaper for a slip there than in Kingston. We live a block from the East River in LIC, and there's a famous artist at the end of our street in a massive warehouse right on the river. He keeps three sailboats at the pier in front of his place, and I thought I might leave him a neighborly note and see if he would work something out with us to keep our boat there as well. Could happen but probably not -- but it would be amazing to have her a block away. Not just for sailing but also a place to have dinner with a view of the UN across the river.... Finally, there are about 15 sailboats tied up in Newton Creek, the infamously polluted EPA Superfund site canal that separates Brooklyn and Queens and joins the East River. This is a mile from our place. The boats are simply tied up to the north side of the canal, no marina, no fee, guerilla style. I have noticed them for the last half-dozen years. There are some people living on the cheap aboard their boats there. I'll head down there to explore the situation but I may very well want something more secure -- my new el cheapo boat may be too damn nice to risk pirates.

Thanks all for your warm welcome the the Ericson community. I look forward to meeting some of you in person in the not-to-distant future. And, Christian, when you are finished sorting-out and perfecting Thelonius II, and have sailed her on some amazing journeys, and you're ready to move on to the next project, I want first refusal to buy her. I know she'll be the finest example of her type when you're done, and I should be just about finished working on my E-32 and ready to move up to something perfect from the start... ;^}
 

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tenders

Innocent Bystander
OK, I'm sold.:)

(And the Harlem YC sounds great. We were at City Island YC for a while, a wonderful gateway to all of New England.)

Did you live in New York, Christian? You are truly a man of the world. HYC is on the same side of the island as CIYC, but closer to the entry bridge and a bit more protected. Come back for a visit! The restaurant is great but the cooking may or may not compare to that of your shadowy figure Jane, mentioned fleetingly in the Fastnet portion of your Turner biography and your Hawaii book.
 

Airsailor

Junior Member
I hate to say you told me so, but....

Gentlemen,

A quick and rather sad, but probably unsurprising update:
A couple of weeks ago, within an hour or so of completing the transaction to purchase the boat, I started to really look carefully at it. I think I was far too polite with the former owner and didn't really want to "tear into it" while she watched as that felt disrespectful. What I found in short order was that hidden behind a cover panel on the port side of the main bulkhead was the chainplate for the uppers and intermediates, and this was bolted to -- you guessed it -- mush. The bulkhead had been previously repaired with plywood scarfed in to replace rotted teak, but that plywood had been exposed to water and was completely rotted. Somewhat amazing that the boat hadn't de-masted while being sailed, as this problem had obviously been there for some years. The starboard side had also been repaired and once I removed a bunch of plastic bins from the hanging locker I found a large plywood panel had been sistered up in the chain plate area. (Interestingly, the previous survey made no mention of these repairs, and I'm fairly certain they'd been done prior to that survey.) Suddenly, my $3600 functioning sailboat was not actually sail-able. I started to get that unpleasant feeling in the pit of my stomach that says "Uh oh, big mistake."

As I continued to dig into the boat I started to see things like the plywood backing plate for the through-hull knot meter -- rotted and delaminated. Mounting straps for the stove's alcohol tank broken; alcohol tank won't stay pressurized.... Plastic moulding strips that hold glass in place in portlight frames is shrunken and loose.... Bottom of the quarterbirth cushion is awfully damp.... You get the idea. In just a few minutes the "to-do" list was getting ridiculously long, and I had a boat that I couldn't take out on the water.

We left that evening for a month-long work commitment in a southern state. I told the PO about the issue with the chainplate, and she offered to get a local boatbuilder/repairer to look at it. I was hoping for a quick repair with the cost shared by the PO, so that we could start sailing when we return in August. Instead, this expert insisted that the whole bulkhead needs to be replaced, with tabbing ground out and replaced. Winter work with an "opening price" of $10,000 - 12,000. His exact words were " There must have been an angel below deck holding those shrouds in place." His basic assessment was that there hadn't been any real maintenance performed in the last decade. The PO went incommunicado. At this point the situation became fairly clear to me and I made the decision to not assume possession of the boat -- as you all pointed out earlier, what appeared to me to be a decent "starter boat" that just need some TLC was actually a massive restoration project that would require hundreds of hours of work before it could be sailed with any real confidence in its soundness and safety. My wife put her foot down and insisted that we walk away from the boat, and let the PO keep the cash if that's what was going to happen. So I mailed the paperwork back and the boat remains registered to the PO, who hasn't said a word.

An embarrassing and very costly lesson. Takeaways: do not buy a boat as you are rushing away on a month-long trip; do not rush to buy a boat because it appears to be a good deal and there are other interested parties; do not be afraid to spend several hours inspecting the boat in the greatest possible depth, preferably with the assistance of an expert; do not buy a boat because it has magically appeared out of nowhere; do not buy a boat because the charming elderly owners have taken you out sailing on it twice and everything appears to work.

The upside of this misadventure is that my interest in sailing and owning a boat of this size has been rekindled, and my wife is also excited at the prospect. Having gone through this crazy "one night stand," I'm now going to try to approach the business of finding a boat and learning to cruise in a much more considered way. A first step will be to visit all the marinas and yacht clubs in our area and try to figure out where we'd keep a boat and what the related expenses will be. Another step will be to find friends in our area with whom I can crew and whose brains I can pick. Another step will likely be sailing school. Another will be to try to thoughtfully identify what I want in a boat, i.e., a boat that is well-suited for and already set up for single-handing. And another step will be to determine how much time I want to dedicate to maintaining and improving the boat, with this in turn determining how much money I save up for the initial purchase.

Thank you all for your input and for trying to shake some sense into this newbie. I'm an excellent example of how an otherwise thoughtful and financially cautious person got completely over his head and blinded by a sudden case of boat fever. Any thoughts about how to proceed after this false start would be much appreciated.

blue skies,
Paul
NYC
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
It still might be worth $3600, but only to someone who has space out behind the workshop to keep it for a year of fun projects.

You are not the first boat buyer to get "go fever." Over the first few months, I realized that many of the features from my search checklist that the boat "checked" were non-functional, installed wrong, wrong size for the boat, etc.
On the other hand, a lot of these jobs seem bigger and more difficult than they are, to someone who has never done them before. But faced with paying boatyard prices for structural work - walking away from that money seems cheap.

One note of caution, in Oregon, it is the seller who sends notice of sale to the state. I make a practice of sending that form off within five minutes when I sell a boat... Don't know what the case is in your state.
 
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