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I fell for it ("Fake" USCG Documentation Service)

EGregerson

Member III
I received a renewal letter for my US Coast Guard vessel documentation (happens every spring). Went on the web site they cited and paid $75 fee. 75? Man they tripled it. So I got curious and googled vessel renewal; up popped a CruisersForum post: "Fake USCG Registration site robbing $75 from Cruisers". The perpetrator apparently is a surveyor in CA, John Soria. I recognized the renewal letter as not being the usual format, but figured the CG contracted out the function or something. Anyhow, I stopped the VISA payment. Now just waiting for the real thing to appear in the mail.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ion-site-robbing-75-from-cruisers-181938.html
 
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Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Thanks for the tip! The boat broker handled my USCG registration transfer when I bought the boat last year. I might have fallen for this scam as well......
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Thank you for posting this. I saw this on my dad's desk today - his powerboat is documented and I think he fell for it. The document is deliberately misleading. Should not have "US" in the title, should clearly state it is a service that files the documents on behalf of the boat owner, should clearly state it is not a government agency.

With that info disclosed, is it worth $50 for the company to fill out the official info on behalf of the boat owner? I wouldn't pay that, but some people might.

They offer a "prepayment plan" - you pay them up front, they pay the governmental fees over time. I wonder if that requires additional disclosures, escrow accounts, etc. not to mention insurance in case his firm "forgets" to file a prepaid registration.

Sounds to me like this guy is going to get himself in hot water. I am annoyed enough to call the state attorney general about it (PA in my dad's case.)

Edit: he is a 2004 graduate of the CA State Univ Maritime Academy.

https://www.facebook.com/john.soria.1217
 
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footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Crap!

I just fell for this today. I can't believe I did it. $75.00. Calling the credit card company today.

Was there any follow-up from this about him? The site is still active and taking money. Does he actually do any services?

Craig
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
I regard it as a scam, but many people offer this "service" and others like it. They point and click on behalf of old codgers or "busy executives" who just can't figure out the internet. Some of the prominent SSB dealers, for example, offer "registration and licensing management," though without the misleading marketing. If you own a small business, or have internet domains, your inbox gets filled with all sorts of these "renewal" offers. The scam works for any sort of registration that is a matter of public record. They're just hoping that you'll mistake their invoice for the real deal. Two things common with these scams that you should look out for.

Once they have your signature, they may be able to "capture" your account. You will not get the "regular" invoice any more because they register as your legal agent and all future correspondence goes to them. It may take a lot of effort to capture it back.
In most cases, once you give them your credit card number, you have "subscribed" to their service. They will charge that fee every year, forever. Sometimes the only way to get it to stop is to cancel the card.

I haven't heard whether this particular guy is doing those things, but I wouldn't be surprised.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Thanks for the quick response. The cruisersforum thread you linked to in your initial post goes on for 6 pages and concludes that the guy probably does complete the services requested, but his website and mailings are audacious. There is a lot of noise and outrage there in the forum, but it is so emotional that nobody really convinces anyone to change their mind. His letter does not look anything like the the official USCG document renewal notice and it clearly states that he charges a service fee in addition to the renewal fee. You just have to read it. It comes out a month before the real notice, which is already almost 2 months in advance.

His charges are high, for sure. He is trying to catch people who aren't paying close attention. I am trying to figure out if I should dispute the charge now as it's been 4+ days since the transaction. If he comes through with the documentation fast I may have no recourse. I just got the official renewal today, which made me realize that I had been sucked in. Fortunately I have until Nov. 30th to straighten this out.

I'm going to try to talk to a person at the credit card company and see what my options are if this business is legitimate. I'll also e-mail the company and try to cancel the order. No one on the phones today to talk to.
 

fool

Member III
This is the first year l've been able to pay for vessel documentation renewal online. The website is www.uscg.mil/nvdc which redirects to a landing page for various documentation products. With no change of address, from the redirected site go to > Order Products Online > Renew (or Late Renewal) and follow the instructions. You'll need the vessels documentation number to proceed. Change of address requires a different form and can't be done on this site.

It is a government function and you'll be left wondering "what were they thinking?" but best not to dwell on it too much. My renewed certificate arrived about 10 days later! A significant improvement in speed over previous years.

Cheers,

Max

P.S. although the new certificate arrived by post in a timely manner, a search by documented vessel online has not been updated to reflect the new expiration date. >>> scratches head to advance his male pattern baldness... "What are they thinking"?
 
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EGregerson

Member III
done and done

Update to my Post #1;
I did receive USCG documentation from Mr Soria. I had already requested the credit card company reverse the charge and they did. I felt like i wanted to submit my own application to the USCG but the USCG said this was not necessary, that the Document was perfectly legitimate. So I felt I owed Mr Soria $26 anyway; not trusting the WV address, I mailed the check to his attorney (who had identified himself to me in a private email to this site). It's been months and my check has not cleared.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I sent a request to these guys for a cancellation of my erroneous order and received the following from Sean Mallo. I'm going to check with my credit card company if I can get through that phone thicket. How long did it take for you to get your renewed documentation?

Dear Managing Owner,

This message is written in response to your cancellation request.

Please be advised that, at your request, documentation processors assigned to your file will cease all further operations on your application.

However, in accordance with the Terms and Conditions of the website that you've already accepted through use, all application and processing fees submitted remain non-refundable.

You can find the pertinent section of the Terms and Conditions below, and them in full using the following link: https://uscgdocumentation.us/terms-and-conditions/

9. Disclaimer

I understand that all of my application and processing fees regarding the submission of my application are nonrefundable.
I understand that in the event I desire to cancel my application, my fees are nonrefundable.
I understand that my application will be processed in the order in which it was received and no exact time frame regarding my application can be given as every application is unique.

As requested, continuing operations on your file will cease, and your application will be cancelled as it currently exists.

If you would like to retract your cancellation request, please respond to this message within three (3) business days.
 

EGregerson

Member III
prompt response

I got my Documentation renewal in pretty much the usual time. I pressed the 'submit' key on Saturday night, saw the credit card charge on Monday; on Tuesday the USCG Documentation Center (in Falling Waters WV) had the renewal request already.

If u liked the statement to "Managing Owner"; you would probably love the letter i got via Private Message from his lawyer.

This 'renewal service' operation relies on his access to USCG Documentation records. These records are pubic record. I can enter the boat name, e.g. Pilot Project. (http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/CoastGuard/VesselByName.html) I can see name of owner, address, previous owner and Documentation Issuance and Expiration Dates. I suspect Mr Soria has access to the entire Documentation file at once; he can then sort it by Expiration date and spawn a renewal letter a month ahead of the USCG.

When i google uscg documentation, i get 3 Google paid Ads for USVesselDocumentation. The real web address for Uncle Sam's coast guard is http://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organiz...s-DCO-D/National-Vessel-Documentation-Center/ And yet when u google this USCG address, U get paid google ads for ... usvessedocumentation. Unbelievable.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Google Piracy

Trying to locate services through Google is fraught with peril. I used to advertise my business reasonably effectively through Google, but eventually I couldn't compete with ad pirates. One member over on Cruisers Forum brags that he financed his boat and his family's cruising lifestyle by pirating all the Google clicks for "24-Hour Towing" in US metro areas. His computer automatically collects ransom from the actual service providers. He suggests that others who wish to follow the cruising lifestyle do the same for other service industries. :confused:
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I'm waiting to see if I get the renewed documentation in a reasonable time. I also want to see if they are listed as my agent and if that implies any automatic yearly payments or other future interference from them on my documentation.

In an online chat with their customer service I found out that they process these applications very quickly and they do not handle the renewal mailing, so regardless of their e-mail response I am going to get the document, as you apparently did. They sent the renewal tracking info over the chat. At the end of the chat, I stated that their fees were excessive and that I did not want them to act as an agent in the future. Their response was "Not a problem. Thanks for chatting with us. Have we resolved your question(s)?"

I also had a candid phone conversation with my credit card company and they basically said I don't have a leg to stand on to dispute the charge as long as I get the renewed documentation. They do not have a problem with any no-refund policies of their merchants, nor do they pass any judgement on fees charged. So, I got some sympathy, but was not encouraged to proceed with the dispute at this time.

Thanks for getting the rest of the story out. I don't have the resources to spend any more money by getting involved in a legal process regarding their fee. As long as the documentation is received in good order and I haven't lost control of the process for next year, I'm going to move on. I'll post again when I get the document.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Received the documentation

After checking the mail late yesterday I found the renewed CG document waiting for me. Total timeline was Oct 2 when I used the website, to Oct 10th. It is identical to the previous years with no mention of USVD. The return address on the envelope was the NVDC in Falling Waters, WV.

Now, I need to bookmark the correct government renewal website and ignore anything but the government renewal notice.
 

EGregerson

Member III
return address

was there a post mark on the envelope?
I ask because i requested the USCG to mail the CoD directly to me; they said they had to mail it to the submittor.
But, it sounds like things have worked out; Older, wiser, for a small cost.
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
USVesselDocumentation

Back in the spring, I started the process of reviving the USCG documentation of my boat.
I think I found USVesselDocumentation by on-line search - I don't think I realized it was an independent service and not part of the USCG.
But, I will say they did a lot legwork to get this task finally completed successfully.
My situation:
- I bought my boat from the estate of another member of our yacht club - he had bought it as a current documented vessel about 5 years earlier
- he bought it from a guy in FL, who has since died (I'm trying to ignore the trend here)
- ownership was formally changed in the USCG records, but when renewal of the annual fee came around, it was not renewed.
- huge complicating factor - in TN, privately owned boats have to be registered (and fee paid, of course), but the State does not issue any sort of Title. Even though I could prove I'd registered the boat, and I had a bill of sale from the estate I bought it from, the USCG didn't accept those documents as proof of ownership. Apparently, USCG wasn't aware that a small number of States don't issue Titles on private boats.
- but,
USVesselDocumentation found documents that convinced USCG that it was a thing.
- it took 5 months, and I had to go back to the end of the queue at USCG three times (i.e., each time I/we sent an extra document that USCG required in lieu of the 'normal' documents they expect to see - ~10 weeks in the queue each time)
- but, next year, I'll be paying the renewal fee directly to USCG, and, thanks to this thread, I will be on the alert if
USVesselDocumentation sends me a reminder that looks like it's from the USCG.
Thanks!!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
To clarify a question about my documentation, I telephoned the US Government.

A nice woman answered and we chatted amicably. I was all set, turns out it wasn't time to renew yet.

Sounds like vivid dreaming, I know, but it happened.
 
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