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Universal M25 Exhaust Riser/Elbow Options

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
......I bet your re-built alternator is a beaut. I think you got a pretty good deal as re-builds go, but a new 55 amp alternator probably would have been worthwhile for not much more money. Do you have an external regulator? I had to deal with that. When I re-build my Motorola spare I'll post some information for comparison.

Cheers!


Craig,

I still have the original '85 Motorola regulator. I asked the rebuild guy what he thought about upgrading it but he was definitely of the "If it ain't broke......" mindset. Of course, at $120 bucks a rebuild, that mindset is working out pretty well for him.

I'm charging two 85 A-H house wet cells that came with the boat (dated 2014) and an identical starter battery I just bought new. All are from Costco. I'm pretty low tech at this point. The only high-draw add-on on the boat is the icebox chiller plate, which I think the PO said is dual-powered. Don't think I'd run it off just the batteries, though.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Regarding Craig's information about his exhaust hose diameter in reply 19, our boat has a 1 5/8" hose. I measured it when I removed the chrome-bronze exhaust fitting for re-chroming. This is a stock factory installation of a Universal M25XP diesel.
Seemingly, this should be accurate because I was measuring the actual transom fitting size. :nerd:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...0-Transom-Thru-Hull-Replacement&referrerid=28
(picture in reply #5)

Some engine trivia: a ship wright I know tells me that one small way that the newest diesels, like the Betamarine's, produce more HP per cu.inch, is that they reduce back pressure to the minimum by specifying a larger 2" exhaust hose.
 

kloeereng

New Member
I think it's the oil warning sensor. There is probably no harm in putting in a new one--they aren't expensive--but I have no idea if that's necessary or not. One of the real experts on this site will surely have the answer shortly. :egrin:

Frank

Apologies for an old post -- I just registered. I've lived and breathed Universal engines since 1994, so I am "quite" familiar. It's not a "sender", it's the low oil pressure switch. It is a normally-closed switch, that is, the terminal makes contact to engine ground when the engine is off (no oil pressure.) The switch opens when there is approximately 5 psi, and breaks the ground circuit from the alarm. These do fail and the best source is a Kubota dealer p/n 15841-39010, because the threads are 1/8"-28 JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard), not more typical 1/8"-27 "American" NPT (National Pipe Taper) that you can more easily find at auto parts. They are about $18 boat bucks.

Feel free to email me any questions about Universals.

Ken K
 

kloeereng

New Member
Ken- I tried to order this very part, Universal Diesel 200266 1.25 inch exhaust riser, from Toad Marine (formerly known as Torresen Marine). This is the one stamped with Westerbeke on it. Toad Marine was the website that came up most often when this part was searched for, as well as many other parts for my M18 engine. I have come across this website many times in the past and have heard of others having no issues with it, unlike me. I ordered the riser and some gaskets on January 4, got email receipt back saying part would ship January 14. The part has not arrived, and no correspondence has been received. Phone calls to customer service go to voicemail. Emails to customer service are unreturned. I cannot get ahold of anyone. My credit card was billed.

Buyer beware. Also it appears that some other websites with the same part are affiliated with this company.

Good luck.

It's a shame you had such issues. That is uncalled for. These risers are readily available and in fact I have supplied and provided instructions/parts/assistance to install them on a Universals in C-30s (converting from the original black-iron pipe dry exhaust riser to a water-cooled exhaust. They actually come in a couple different inlet size and types. Making that conversion has been one of the best mods for the C-30 due to where the engine sits.

I hope it worked out for you. If you find any other issues getting Universal parts email me as besides being a Universal/Westerbeke dealer I have a network who may be able to help out locate parts.

Cheers
Ken K
 

artie

New Member
gasket material



This is the result of Wednesday evening's work out at the boat. It's part of my Alternator Bracket replacement project (more on that later when I finish the project). I couldn't get the exhaust flange off of the manifold due to too-little nut clearance on the bottom stud. The two parts came off the block in one piece without too much trouble.

Obviously, I'll get the manifold boiled out and repainted. My question is what to do with the elbow. I could have it boiled out too, but that still won't tell me how bad the corrosion is inside the elbow. A lot of the reading I found online suggested that the useful life of an exhaust elbow may be about 3-5 years in salt water. This particular riser/elbow has been in fresh water for the last 20+ years, but I'll have it in seawater from now on. I'm guessing it came with the boat back in 1985.

Other posts I've seen on elbow replacement have shown either a Westerbeke unit:
attachment.php


Or a Yanmar-type elbow on top of standard iron pipe;



I'd be very interested to hear opinions about the Clean & Re-use option vs Westerbeke vs Yanmar options.

Many thanks....

Ken
I had to remove my exhaust pipes with the flange attacked. What gasket material can I use to reattach the flange back to the engine?
 

KloeberEng

KWKloeber
I had to remove my exhaust pipes with the flange attacked. What gasket material can I use to reattach the flange back to the engine?

The exhaust manifold/coolant tank goes on with 3 gaskets, readily available from Westerbeke (you can order direct on the website, or your get them from your local dealer or regional distributor.). Or the Kubota gasket — But Wb usually isn’t bad on the cost of gaskets.

There isn’t a gasket goop specified and most don’t use any, but if you do get one that’s hi-temp and non hardening - I don’t have the permatex p/n but you should be able to come up with that goop from NAPA or the permatex website. Apply it to one surface if you use any at all.

-Ken
 

KloeberEng

KWKloeber
PS.

RC runs thru reinstalling the exhaust manifold on his old website, I don’t see the alt upgrade on the new site.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

He used no gasket goop.

If you and others don’t have the engine parts and shop/service manuals for the M-25, I have them posted on C34.org >> TechWiki link >> “Manuals” topic, as well as the Kubota parts manuals for the D850/D950 blocks.

You may find a ton of good info under the Engines and possibly other Wiki topics not to mention (but I’ll mention) in the forum since many have the M-25 and XP flavor iron gennys.
 

artie

New Member
Gasket material

PS.

RC runs thru reinstalling the exhaust manifold on his old website, I don’t see the alt upgrade on the new site.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

He used no gasket goop.

If you and others don’t have the engine parts and shop/service manuals for the M-25, I have them posted on C34.org >> TechWiki link >> “Manuals” topic, as well as the Kubota parts manuals for the D850/D950 blocks.

You may find a ton of good info under the Engines and possibly other Wiki topics not to mention (but I’ll mention) in the forum since many have the M-25 and XP flavor iron gennys.
Thank you, Ken K. I appreciate you help
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
I'm about to attempt taking my flange off to replace/re-bed the gasket as it's dripping coolant into the engine compartment. I've not done much wrenching on the engine yet - do I need to pull the whole exhaust riser / elbow assembly to get the flange off, or could I just drain the coolant, get the flange off the manifold (easier said than done based on this thread), scrape/sand the mating surfaces clean, rebed gasket with permatex, and reassemble?

My only real concern is I need the motor assembled/operational by next Saturday and am worried about getting myself into a gnarly rabbit hole.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Jeff, there's only three nuts holding the flange to the manifold. Put a wrench on them. If you can turn them all, it might be easy. I didn't have the clearance to get a box end wrench on the bottom nut and was afraid of rounding it off with an open-end wrench. I used a drill and wire wheel to polish the surfaces before re-gasketing.

If you do it in place though, it's a bit of a wasted effort in my opinion. You might as well take the riser/elbow off the boat and get it cleaned out. Performance Radiator in Tacoma will do it. Otherwise, you're leaving that as a potential problem for later.

Heck, if you can turn the bolts in place, you might try snugging them up to see if you can minimize the leakage. Then you can use your boat this weekend and do the full job when you have the time.
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
Jeff, there's only three nuts holding the flange to the manifold. Put a wrench on them. If you can turn them all, it might be easy. I didn't have the clearance to get a box end wrench on the bottom nut and was afraid of rounding it off with an open-end wrench. I used a drill and wire wheel to polish the surfaces before re-gasketing.

If you do it in place though, it's a bit of a wasted effort in my opinion. You might as well take the riser/elbow off the boat and get it cleaned out. Performance Radiator in Tacoma will do it. Otherwise, you're leaving that as a potential problem for later.

Heck, if you can turn the bolts in place, you might try snugging them up to see if you can minimize the leakage. Then you can use your boat this weekend and do the full job when you have the time.

Thanks, Ken. Good call on doing the whole job / doing it right if I'm going to do it. I tried wrenching the nuts this morning and lo and behold, I was able to snug them up about a quarter turn each. Wiped off the coolant spills on the engine, went motoring, and had a dry engine upon return. Sometimes it's an easy fix.

I'm going to keep a cooling system maintenance run as a close-term checklist item, though -- clean the riser, replace the gasket, clean/flush the heat exchanger, hoses, the whole shebang.

I do notice the water heater seems to be leaking drops / drips of coolant but I wager that's likely a hose clamp issue.

*edit*: hot water heater, not water cooler
*edit2*: water heater, not hot water heater (buncha wise guys here)
 
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Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
A bit of luck.....glad to hear it.

Don't forget to also check the elbow where the raw water is injected back into the riser. Mine was 80% blocked and causing steam with too little water flow at exhaust thru-hull. If clogged, you can chip the particulate out with a small screwdriver and reuse the fitting.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
*edit*: hot water heater, not water cooler

More edit: water heater.

As I was asked in a post not long ago, "why do you need to heat your hot water?"

:)
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
*edit*: hot water heater, not water cooler

More edit: water heater.

As I was asked in a post not long ago, "why do you need to heat your hot water?"

:)

Because if you have a “first mate” (wife) aboard who likes to have hot water when you anchor too far from a 120 volt outlet you need to heat your hot water. That’s why. :egrin: Boiling some on the galley stove just doesn’t cut it.:mad:
 

brianb00

O - 34
Regarding Craig's information about his exhaust hose diameter in reply 19, our boat has a 1 5/8" hose. I measured it when I removed the chrome-bronze exhaust fitting for re-chroming. This is a stock factory installation of a Universal M25XP diesel.
Seemingly, this should be accurate because I was measuring the actual transom fitting size. :nerd:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...0-Transom-Thru-Hull-Replacement&referrerid=28

Hello Loren,
Sorry to keep bugging you. The 1 5/8" hose also is used at the output to the exhaust riser, correct ? A replacement riser I have has a 2" exit fitting, I wlll be adapting to a 1 5/8" hose to go into the muffler. In your engine refit did you change to a new muffler ? Maybe I should do that as well ? Thanks for any advice.
Regards,
Brian
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Sorry to keep bugging you. The 1 5/8" hose also is used at the output to the exhaust riser, correct ? A replacement riser I have has a 2" exit fitting, I wlll be adapting to a 1 5/8" hose to go into the muffler. In your engine refit did you change to a new muffler ? Maybe I should do that as well ? Thanks for any advice.
Regards,
Brian
Betamarine recommended going to the larger diameter exhaust all the way to the transom, and that lager size is standard on many newer diesels, AFAIK.
Since our 1988 OEM exhaust hose had started to seep rusty water anyway, I was going to have to replace it, old engine or new.

The OEM water lift muffler probably would last forever as it's a fiberglass product, and so I sold it for a couple bucks and bought a new one with the larger port sizing, same builder. There are some pix in my blog.

I was told by our local Betamarine dealer that he believes that most/all of the newer engines have gone with a larger exhaust hose to slightly reduce back pressure and thereby increase the HP output a bit.

Bugging me? :) Heck no..... same model engine in a thousand other Ericson's and Olson's.... ! I have learned a LOT from the experiences of the other owners here because of that commonality. It is just nice to 'give back' a little tiny bit.

Cheers,
Loren
 

brianb00

O - 34
Betamarine recommended going to the larger diameter exhaust all the way to the transom, and that lager size is standard on many newer diesels, AFAIK.
Since our 1988 OEM exhaust hose had started to seep rusty water anyway, I was going to have to replace it, old engine or new.

The OEM water lift muffler probably would last forever as it's a fiberglass product, and so I sold it for a couple bucks and bought a new one with the larger port sizing, same builder. There are some pix in my blog.

I was told by our local Betamarine dealer that he believes that most/all of the newer engines have gone with a larger exhaust hose to slightly reduce back pressure and thereby increase the HP output a bit.

Bugging me? :) Heck no..... same model engine in a thousand other Ericson's and Olson's.... ! I have learned a LOT from the experiences of the other owners here because of that commonality. It is just nice to 'give back' a little tiny bit.

Cheers,
Loren
Thanks for the input . I will look at the new / replacement muffler and see about replacement. Thanks again for the assist.
 

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Exhaust Riser Mount/Bracket/Support - What do you have?

As part of my replacement of the the strut, we had the engine removed and remounted by marine diesel mechanics - https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/thread...-inside-and-a-zinc-question.19649/post-157656 - The seven and a half boat buck bill included replacing the exhaust riser, hoses, reconditioning the HX. We only used the boat a couple months and when taking the boat to it's winter storage last Fall the pipe connecting the exhaust riser to the engine broke. This was with about 25 hours on the engine since the mechanics' work. Water, noise, and fumes were pouring into the engine compartment. The mechanic came the next day and repaired it. After discussing the new bill with them, they cut the price in half. And he told us we needed a bracket to support the exhaust riser. I said, thanks. I'll do it myself.

This is a picture of the area as it is now.

exhaust riser E35-3 Kismet.jpg

Do you have any good pictures or diagrams of what you have to support the riser? I'm assuming it needs some sort of vibration accommodation. Is it okay to mount a bracket to the overhead boat structure? Or should it be connected to the engine?

Thanks, Jeff
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
diesel hoses complete wide enhanced.jpg

My riser comes off the engine and is not mounted anywhere else. I figure that's because the engine vibrates on its mounts and the exhaust riser with it, and a separate connection would create unnecessary forces. But I guess other engine installations could be different.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
My riser comes off the engine and is not mounted anywhere else
Ditto. I did use a silicone hump hose between a fiberglass elbow coming off the manifold exhaust hose run and connecting to the muffler. They are supposed to isolate the vibrations from the engine a bit to lessen torque on the exhaust components.



IMG_0362.jpeg
 
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