• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Universal M25 Exhaust Riser/Elbow Options

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author


This is the result of Wednesday evening's work out at the boat. It's part of my Alternator Bracket replacement project (more on that later when I finish the project). I couldn't get the exhaust flange off of the manifold due to too-little nut clearance on the bottom stud. The two parts came off the block in one piece without too much trouble.

Obviously, I'll get the manifold boiled out and repainted. My question is what to do with the elbow. I could have it boiled out too, but that still won't tell me how bad the corrosion is inside the elbow. A lot of the reading I found online suggested that the useful life of an exhaust elbow may be about 3-5 years in salt water. This particular riser/elbow has been in fresh water for the last 20+ years, but I'll have it in seawater from now on. I'm guessing it came with the boat back in 1985.

Other posts I've seen on elbow replacement have shown either a Westerbeke unit:
attachment.php


Or a Yanmar-type elbow on top of standard iron pipe;



I'd be very interested to hear opinions about the Clean & Re-use option vs Westerbeke vs Yanmar options.

Many thanks....

Ken
 

Attachments

  • 20170125_223148.jpg
    20170125_223148.jpg
    70.2 KB · Views: 171
  • 20170125_223206.jpg
    20170125_223206.jpg
    69.2 KB · Views: 79

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
My replacement elbow is a welded assembly of stainless steel, basically made of three 90 degree tubing elbows (not cast street elbows) and a couple of straight sections. I wish I had taken a picture before wrapping it and painting it, but here it is ready to re-install. I had it fabricated and installed in 2004. We are full time in salt water. Still going strong. I just had it cleaned last year. I should have cleaned it 5 or 6 years ago. I was charged $200 in 2004, but that included mark-up from the engine shop. Threaded (pipe thread) to fit the flange of course. I have to take the flange off to get it out, but there is plenty of clearance on that bottom stud vs. your situation.

20160906_133735-small.jpg
 
Last edited:

Pat O'Connell

Member III
Westerbeke Elbow

Hi Respected Sailors. We replaced our elbow 20+ years ago and it is still fine (Ihope). It "looks like" the Westerbeke elbow
Season in NH is only 4-5 months. We don't do the cruising miles in the last ten years that we did in the first 20.
Pat O'Connell
Chips 1981 Ericson 28+ Universal 5411
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Stainless exhaust plumbing.

Craig has doe something similar to what my friend Gary did on his Yanmar 2 in his E31. Bu Gary primarily used off the shelf plumbing with little welding except for the water inlet pipe slightly hidden in the attached photo. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
 

Attachments

  • Hull #19, Yanmar stainless exhaust #1.jpg
    Hull #19, Yanmar stainless exhaust #1.jpg
    67.8 KB · Views: 1,500

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
If I had my exhaust elbow off I would probably go ahead and replace it. The Westerbeke version has given good service for me for 15+ years that I've had my boat.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Thanks for the input. Sounds like everyone's had good results with both the do-it-yourself methods and the factory parts. Lots of options....

Does anyone know the part number and a good vendor for the Westerbeke replacement riser-elbow? I'd like to do a cost comparison and I haven't been able to locate the part from either Westerbeke or Universal.

Ken
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Thanks for the input. Sounds like everyone's had good results with both the do-it-yourself methods and the factory parts. Lots of options....

Does anyone know the part number and a good vendor for the Westerbeke replacement riser-elbow? I'd like to do a cost comparison and I haven't been able to locate the part from either Westerbeke or Universal.

Ken

Ken,
What is the diameter of your exhaust today?
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hard to Find

Ken- I tried to order this very part, Universal Diesel 200266 1.25 inch exhaust riser, from Toad Marine (formerly known as Torresen Marine). This is the one stamped with Westerbeke on it. Toad Marine was the website that came up most often when this part was searched for, as well as many other parts for my M18 engine. I have come across this website many times in the past and have heard of others having no issues with it, unlike me. I ordered the riser and some gaskets on January 4, got email receipt back saying part would ship January 14. The part has not arrived, and no correspondence has been received. Phone calls to customer service go to voicemail. Emails to customer service are unreturned. I cannot get ahold of anyone. My credit card was billed.

Buyer beware. Also it appears that some other websites with the same part are affiliated with this company.

I am going to Plan B and I will try ordering one through a local storefront.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
My credit card was billed.

Go back to the credit card company and let them straighten it out. It probably won't get the part, but it will get your money back and save stomach acid.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Craig,

Actually, I haven't gotten around to separating the riser from the manifold yet. Maybe I'll spray it with PBblaster tonight and get the pipe wrenches on it tomorrow.

I measured the OD of threaded nipple (between the manifold and riser) with calipers and it came to 1-11/16". I checked some fittings at the hardware store, and 1-1/4" ID iron pipe has that same OD. Funny, though, that the hose fitting that exits the riser/elbow is a full 2" OD, but it's thick cast steel, so the ID is closer to 1-1/4" (hard to tell with all the interior corrosion). Guess that means I have a 1.25" exhaust system.

I found a full-service radiator shop in Tacoma today. The place was full of marine parts. They had several cylindrical-style heat exchangers they were working on that must have been 6" in diameter. The guy said they boil out manifolds and heat exchangers all the time. He said they soak them in two different type of solutions and that it can take up to a week to boil all the crud out. That'll be my next stop after I get the heat exchanger pulled (pretty easy to do with the manifold & exhaust lines already off).

I also got the alternator rebuilt at a local shop. New brushes, bearings, cleaned out & painted. Charged me over $100 bucks though. Guess I should have talked price with him before I dropped the part off. I now have one of the finest and priciest 32 year old Motorola 55A alternators around!
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
While I'm in there

While I'm in there working....does anyone know what this sender is for?

block-Mainesail.jpg

Maybe I should just replace it too while I'm in there (photo borrowed from MaineSail).
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I think it's the oil warning sensor. There is probably no harm in putting in a new one--they aren't expensive--but I have no idea if that's necessary or not. One of the real experts on this site will surely have the answer shortly. :egrin:

Frank
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
The light blue wire indicates that it is the oil pressure transducer. Here is more info than you ever wanted to know.

DC System Wiring
E-32-3E-34E-35-3
Descriptionfrom dwgactualfrom dwgSize
Cabin lightsPinkPinkPink14
Running lightsGrayGrayGray14
Bow lightBrownBrownBrown14
Anchor lightBlueBlueBlue14
Fore deck lightYellowYellowYellow14
Pedestal wiresGray14
StereoBlue-WhiteDirect10
InstrumentsTanTan14
RadioDirectRed-white10
Pressure water pumpPurpleBluePurple14
Bilge pumpYellowRedOrange10
Bilge pump - ManualRed10
Bilge pump - AutoBlack10
Shower sump pump *OrangeYellow *Yellow, Blue10
BlowerDark BlueDark BlueDark Blue10
Opt LPG StoveGray-WhiteGray-WhiteGray-White14
Opt RefrigerationRedRedRed10
Opt Elect. HeadRed6
Fuel gaugeOrange14
SpeakerClear18
Mast wire gndBlackBlackBlack14
Cabin & Running lights gndBlackBlackBlack14
Bilge pump gndBlackBlackBlack10
Pressure water gndBlackBlackBlack14
Blower gndBlackBlackBlack10
Shower sump pump gndBlackBlackBlack10
Opt LPG Stove gndBlackBlack14
Opt Refrigeration gndBlackBlackBlack10
Opt Elect. Head gndBlack6
Battery to panel switchRedRed1/0
Panel switch to starterRedRed1/0
Battery switch to panelRedRed4
Battery to starterRed1/0
Batteries to engine gndBlackBlackBlack1/0
Panel gnd to engine gndBlackBlackBlack4
* Shower sump pump on E-34 wired to the Pressure Water pump breaker.
Engine wires
Harness
DescriptionWire #Wire ColorWire Size
Battery ground1Black#10
Glow plugs2Grey#10
Solenoid coil3Yellow-Red#16
Alternator output4Orange#10
Battery Positive5Red#10
Key switched positive6Purple#16
Oil pressure switch7Light Blue#16
Temperature switch8Tan#16
9Open
Alternator tach output10Grey#16
Fuel pump6Purple#16, #14
AC System Wiring
Color
DescriptionE-32-3E-34E-35-3Size
Dockside to AC panel10/310/310/310/3
Panel to AC outletsYellowYellowYellow14/3
Hot water heaterYellowYellowYellow14/3
Battery chargerYellowYellowYellow14/3
Opt RefrigerationYellow14/3
Panel to gndBlackBlack10

<tbody>
</tbody>
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Riser woes

The studs holding the manifold to the exhaust flange were impossible for me to remove, despite months of penetrating oil and double nuts and finally filing the ends flat and using large wrenches. So I took the manifold to an engine shop. They said they were "pretty difficult" to remove, so it was worth the expense. They also ground the end of the manifold flat. I have also tried for months to remove the exhaust riser elbow from the old exhaust flange, since the aluminum elbow is falling to pieces. I finally gave up and ordered a new exhaust flange and studs. I have a local engine shop trying to source a new riser. We'll see if they are successful.

Manifold.jpg

Old Riser.jpg
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
The light blue wire indicates that it is the oil pressure transducer. Here is more info than you ever wanted to know.

DC System Wiring
E-32-3E-34E-35-3
Descriptionfrom dwgactualfrom dwgSize
Cabin lightsPinkPinkPink14

<tbody>
</tbody>


Amazing..... this'll come in handy. Thanks.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Exhaust Flange, Studs

Based on your experience I feel pretty lucky that I could get the exhaust apart earlier this year when I started on my voyage to nowhere with oil in the coolant. But my flange was installed only 12 years ago. So, when you put these pieces back together be sure to use high temp anti-seize on the studs. I used the copper type, so we'll see how that works. With engines mounted under the companionway you will need to get that flange off the manifold in a few years to clean out the riser. This is true no matter what riser you choose to install.

I also went to a performance engine shop and bought a sheet of gasket material that is suitable for exhaust applications. A 10 x 10 inch sheet (approx) cost me $17 and I can make about 6 exhaust flange gaskets from it. So, if you're feeling up to it, you can make your own with a pencil, scissors and a drill.

That's a nice flange and machine job.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I hear you on the riser woes. The three bolts on the manifold flange weren't so bad, except for the bottom one where there's not enough room to get a whole wrench on it. After rounding off all the corners on the nut I resorted to vice-grips--couldn't believe it worked.

Getting the flange and riser apart was another story. PBblaster, propane torch (repeat X5) and it wouldn't budge. I finally put a 6' long iron pipe around the end of a 24 in pipe wrench and torqued it off before it nearly tipped over the whole workbench. Total luck that the nipple unscrewed from the flange and not the riser. The riser is a throw-away but I can probably re-use the flange.

I tried to price the Westerbeke riser/elbow at Tacoma Diesel today. He said he couldn't get it, but recommended a Yanmar elbow for $126 and told me of a plumbing supply shop that has all the fittings and pipes in stainless, so I'm thinking I may go that route.
 
Last edited:

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Craig,

Actually, I haven't gotten around to separating the riser from the manifold yet. Maybe I'll spray it with PBblaster tonight and get the pipe wrenches on it tomorrow.

I measured the OD of threaded nipple (between the manifold and riser) with calipers and it came to 1-11/16". I checked some fittings at the hardware store, and 1-1/4" ID iron pipe has that same OD. Funny, though, that the hose fitting that exits the riser/elbow is a full 2" OD, but it's thick cast steel, so the ID is closer to 1-1/4" (hard to tell with all the interior corrosion). Guess that means I have a 1.25" exhaust system.

I found a full-service radiator shop in Tacoma today. The place was full of marine parts. They had several cylindrical-style heat exchangers they were working on that must have been 6" in diameter. The guy said they boil out manifolds and heat exchangers all the time. He said they soak them in two different type of solutions and that it can take up to a week to boil all the crud out. That'll be my next stop after I get the heat exchanger pulled (pretty easy to do with the manifold & exhaust lines already off).

I also got the alternator rebuilt at a local shop. New brushes, bearings, cleaned out & painted. Charged me over $100 bucks though. Guess I should have talked price with him before I dropped the part off. I now have one of the finest and priciest 32 year old Motorola 55A alternators around!

I figured you had 1-1/4", which seems to be the old standard for most of the 2, 3 and 4 cylinder Universals. I measured the square outlet of my exhaust jacket/manifold for the 4-cyl. 5432 and it calculated out to very close to the same area as a 1-1/4" round tube. Universal may have enlarged the manifold outlet with the M-40 and similar engines in the late 80s or early 90s, but I've never been able to check out an M-40 manifold to see if they made that square bigger when they went to the 2" exhaust system. That would be an interesting data point.

I had my riser/elbow, the manifold, and my 3" heat exchanger boiled out at a radiator shop. The scale from the calcium that builds up in the heat exchanger raw water circuit will require some acid to clean out. It cost me just over $200 at a place in Milton.

I do not know what to make of the white steam or "smoke" (I think it is steam) that comes out of some of our exhausts when the engine is at cruise rpm and all warmed up. I had a little steam before I had the head off and repaired and I still have it now. It's not burning off coolant. I think that the steam is from the salt water that is injected at the riser turning to steam in the hot exhaust and it is making it through the muffler and all the way to the transom. I don't know if that is bad or normal or why it occurs in some and not others.

I bet your re-built alternator is a beaut. I think you got a pretty good deal as re-builds go, but a new 55 amp alternator probably would have been worthwhile for not much more money. Do you have an external regulator? I had to deal with that. When I re-build my Motorola spare I'll post some information for comparison.

Cheers!
 
Top