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Thread: Universal M25 Exhaust Riser/Elbow Options

  1. #16
    Sustaining Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Tom Metzger;105016]The light blue wire indicates that it is the oil pressure transducer. Here is more info than you ever wanted to know.

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    Amazing..... this'll come in handy. Thanks.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  2. #17
    Principal Partner footrope's Avatar
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    Exhaust Flange, Studs

    Based on your experience I feel pretty lucky that I could get the exhaust apart earlier this year when I started on my voyage to nowhere with oil in the coolant. But my flange was installed only 12 years ago. So, when you put these pieces back together be sure to use high temp anti-seize on the studs. I used the copper type, so we'll see how that works. With engines mounted under the companionway you will need to get that flange off the manifold in a few years to clean out the riser. This is true no matter what riser you choose to install.

    I also went to a performance engine shop and bought a sheet of gasket material that is suitable for exhaust applications. A 10 x 10 inch sheet (approx) cost me $17 and I can make about 6 exhaust flange gaskets from it. So, if you're feeling up to it, you can make your own with a pencil, scissors and a drill.

    That's a nice flange and machine job.
    Craig Davis & Ellen Le Vita

    1980 E38 "Pilot Project"
    Hull #20, Universal Diesel 5432
    Gig Harbor, WA


    In Puget Sound there are only two directions to go - North and South. That applies to the boat and the wind.

  3. #18
    Sustaining Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    I hear you on the riser woes. The three bolts on the manifold flange weren't so bad, except for the bottom one where there's not enough room to get a whole wrench on it. After rounding off all the corners on the nut I resorted to vice-grips--couldn't believe it worked.

    Getting the flange and riser apart was another story. PBblaster, propane torch (repeat X5) and it wouldn't budge. I finally put a 6' long iron pipe around the end of a 24 in pipe wrench and torqued it off before it nearly tipped over the whole workbench. Total luck that the nipple unscrewed from the flange and not the riser. The riser is a throw-away but I can probably re-use the flange.

    I tried to price the Westerbeke riser/elbow at Tacoma Diesel today. He said he couldn't get it, but recommended a Yanmar elbow for $126 and told me of a plumbing supply shop that has all the fittings and pipes in stainless, so I'm thinking I may go that route.
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 02-07-2017 at 12:27 AM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  4. #19
    Principal Partner footrope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    Craig,

    Actually, I haven't gotten around to separating the riser from the manifold yet. Maybe I'll spray it with PBblaster tonight and get the pipe wrenches on it tomorrow.

    I measured the OD of threaded nipple (between the manifold and riser) with calipers and it came to 1-11/16". I checked some fittings at the hardware store, and 1-1/4" ID iron pipe has that same OD. Funny, though, that the hose fitting that exits the riser/elbow is a full 2" OD, but it's thick cast steel, so the ID is closer to 1-1/4" (hard to tell with all the interior corrosion). Guess that means I have a 1.25" exhaust system.

    I found a full-service radiator shop in Tacoma today. The place was full of marine parts. They had several cylindrical-style heat exchangers they were working on that must have been 6" in diameter. The guy said they boil out manifolds and heat exchangers all the time. He said they soak them in two different type of solutions and that it can take up to a week to boil all the crud out. That'll be my next stop after I get the heat exchanger pulled (pretty easy to do with the manifold & exhaust lines already off).

    I also got the alternator rebuilt at a local shop. New brushes, bearings, cleaned out & painted. Charged me over $100 bucks though. Guess I should have talked price with him before I dropped the part off. I now have one of the finest and priciest 32 year old Motorola 55A alternators around!
    I figured you had 1-1/4", which seems to be the old standard for most of the 2, 3 and 4 cylinder Universals. I measured the square outlet of my exhaust jacket/manifold for the 4-cyl. 5432 and it calculated out to very close to the same area as a 1-1/4" round tube. Universal may have enlarged the manifold outlet with the M-40 and similar engines in the late 80s or early 90s, but I've never been able to check out an M-40 manifold to see if they made that square bigger when they went to the 2" exhaust system. That would be an interesting data point.

    I had my riser/elbow, the manifold, and my 3" heat exchanger boiled out at a radiator shop. The scale from the calcium that builds up in the heat exchanger raw water circuit will require some acid to clean out. It cost me just over $200 at a place in Milton.

    I do not know what to make of the white steam or "smoke" (I think it is steam) that comes out of some of our exhausts when the engine is at cruise rpm and all warmed up. I had a little steam before I had the head off and repaired and I still have it now. It's not burning off coolant. I think that the steam is from the salt water that is injected at the riser turning to steam in the hot exhaust and it is making it through the muffler and all the way to the transom. I don't know if that is bad or normal or why it occurs in some and not others.

    I bet your re-built alternator is a beaut. I think you got a pretty good deal as re-builds go, but a new 55 amp alternator probably would have been worthwhile for not much more money. Do you have an external regulator? I had to deal with that. When I re-build my Motorola spare I'll post some information for comparison.

    Cheers!
    Craig Davis & Ellen Le Vita

    1980 E38 "Pilot Project"
    Hull #20, Universal Diesel 5432
    Gig Harbor, WA


    In Puget Sound there are only two directions to go - North and South. That applies to the boat and the wind.

  5. #20
    Advanced Beginner bgary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Metzger View Post
    The light blue wire indicates that it is the oil pressure transducer. Here is more info than you ever wanted to know.
    That's great info - thank you!
    "Makana" (ex-Thelonious)
    1985 Ericson 32-III #604
    Makana blog: here

  6. #21
    Sustaining Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by footrope View Post

    ......I bet your re-built alternator is a beaut. I think you got a pretty good deal as re-builds go, but a new 55 amp alternator probably would have been worthwhile for not much more money. Do you have an external regulator? I had to deal with that. When I re-build my Motorola spare I'll post some information for comparison.

    Cheers!

    Craig,

    I still have the original '85 Motorola regulator. I asked the rebuild guy what he thought about upgrading it but he was definitely of the "If it ain't broke......" mindset. Of course, at $120 bucks a rebuild, that mindset is working out pretty well for him.

    I'm charging two 85 A-H house wet cells that came with the boat (dated 2014) and an identical starter battery I just bought new. All are from Costco. I'm pretty low tech at this point. The only high-draw add-on on the boat is the icebox chiller plate, which I think the PO said is dual-powered. Don't think I'd run it off just the batteries, though.
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 02-07-2017 at 10:21 PM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  7. #22
    Senior Moderator Loren Beach's Avatar
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    Regarding Craig's information about his exhaust hose diameter in reply 19, our boat has a 1 5/8" hose. I measured it when I removed the chrome-bronze exhaust fitting for re-chroming. This is a stock factory installation of a Universal M25XP diesel.
    Seemingly, this should be accurate because I was measuring the actual transom fitting size.
    http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...&referrerid=28
    (picture in reply #5)

    Some engine trivia: a ship wright I know tells me that one small way that the newest diesels, like the Betamarine's, produce more HP per cu.inch, is that they reduce back pressure to the minimum by specifying a larger 2" exhaust hose.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Langer View Post
    I think it's the oil warning sensor. There is probably no harm in putting in a new one--they aren't expensive--but I have no idea if that's necessary or not. One of the real experts on this site will surely have the answer shortly.

    Frank
    Apologies for an old post -- I just registered. I've lived and breathed Universal engines since 1994, so I am "quite" familiar. It's not a "sender", it's the low oil pressure switch. It is a normally-closed switch, that is, the terminal makes contact to engine ground when the engine is off (no oil pressure.) The switch opens when there is approximately 5 psi, and breaks the ground circuit from the alarm. These do fail and the best source is a Kubota dealer p/n 15841-39010, because the threads are 1/8"-28 JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard), not more typical 1/8"-27 "American" NPT (National Pipe Taper) that you can more easily find at auto parts. They are about $18 boat bucks.

    Feel free to email me any questions about Universals.

    Ken K

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigd14 View Post
    Ken- I tried to order this very part, Universal Diesel 200266 1.25 inch exhaust riser, from Toad Marine (formerly known as Torresen Marine). This is the one stamped with Westerbeke on it. Toad Marine was the website that came up most often when this part was searched for, as well as many other parts for my M18 engine. I have come across this website many times in the past and have heard of others having no issues with it, unlike me. I ordered the riser and some gaskets on January 4, got email receipt back saying part would ship January 14. The part has not arrived, and no correspondence has been received. Phone calls to customer service go to voicemail. Emails to customer service are unreturned. I cannot get ahold of anyone. My credit card was billed.

    Buyer beware. Also it appears that some other websites with the same part are affiliated with this company.

    Good luck.
    It's a shame you had such issues. That is uncalled for. These risers are readily available and in fact I have supplied and provided instructions/parts/assistance to install them on a Universals in C-30s (converting from the original black-iron pipe dry exhaust riser to a water-cooled exhaust. They actually come in a couple different inlet size and types. Making that conversion has been one of the best mods for the C-30 due to where the engine sits.

    I hope it worked out for you. If you find any other issues getting Universal parts email me as besides being a Universal/Westerbeke dealer I have a network who may be able to help out locate parts.

    Cheers
    Ken K

  10. #25
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    gasket material

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post


    This is the result of Wednesday evening's work out at the boat. It's part of my Alternator Bracket replacement project (more on that later when I finish the project). I couldn't get the exhaust flange off of the manifold due to too-little nut clearance on the bottom stud. The two parts came off the block in one piece without too much trouble.

    Obviously, I'll get the manifold boiled out and repainted. My question is what to do with the elbow. I could have it boiled out too, but that still won't tell me how bad the corrosion is inside the elbow. A lot of the reading I found online suggested that the useful life of an exhaust elbow may be about 3-5 years in salt water. This particular riser/elbow has been in fresh water for the last 20+ years, but I'll have it in seawater from now on. I'm guessing it came with the boat back in 1985.

    Other posts I've seen on elbow replacement have shown either a Westerbeke unit:


    Or a Yanmar-type elbow on top of standard iron pipe;



    I'd be very interested to hear opinions about the Clean & Re-use option vs Westerbeke vs Yanmar options.

    Many thanks....

    Ken
    I had to remove my exhaust pipes with the flange attacked. What gasket material can I use to reattach the flange back to the engine?

  11. #26
    KWKloeber
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    Quote Originally Posted by artie View Post
    I had to remove my exhaust pipes with the flange attacked. What gasket material can I use to reattach the flange back to the engine?
    The exhaust manifold/coolant tank goes on with 3 gaskets, readily available from Westerbeke (you can order direct on the website, or your get them from your local dealer or regional distributor.). Or the Kubota gasket ó But Wb usually isnít bad on the cost of gaskets. 🙂

    There isnít a gasket goop specified and most donít use any, but if you do get one thatís hi-temp and non hardening - I donít have the permatex p/n but you should be able to come up with that goop from NAPA or the permatex website. Apply it to one surface if you use any at all.

    -Ken
    Ken K
    1984 C-30 tall rig M-25

    Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed
    by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
    So throw off the bowlines.
    Sail away from the safe harbor.
    Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
    Explore. Dream. Discover.
    - Mark Twain

  12. #27
    KWKloeber
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    PS.

    RC runs thru reinstalling the exhaust manifold on his old website, I donít see the alt upgrade on the new site.

    http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

    He used no gasket goop.

    If you and others donít have the engine parts and shop/service manuals for the M-25, I have them posted on C34.org >> TechWiki link >> ďManualsĒ topic, as well as the Kubota parts manuals for the D850/D950 blocks.

    You may find a ton of good info under the Engines and possibly other Wiki topics not to mention (but Iíll mention) in the forum since many have the M-25 and XP flavor iron gennys.
    Ken K
    1984 C-30 tall rig M-25

    Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed
    by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
    So throw off the bowlines.
    Sail away from the safe harbor.
    Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
    Explore. Dream. Discover.
    - Mark Twain

  13. #28
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    Gasket material

    Quote Originally Posted by KloeberEng View Post
    PS.

    RC runs thru reinstalling the exhaust manifold on his old website, I donít see the alt upgrade on the new site.

    http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

    He used no gasket goop.

    If you and others donít have the engine parts and shop/service manuals for the M-25, I have them posted on C34.org >> TechWiki link >> ďManualsĒ topic, as well as the Kubota parts manuals for the D850/D950 blocks.

    You may find a ton of good info under the Engines and possibly other Wiki topics not to mention (but Iíll mention) in the forum since many have the M-25 and XP flavor iron gennys.
    Thank you, Ken K. I appreciate you help

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