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High water bilge alarm

KTROBI_VALHALLA

Member II
Does anybody have a high water bilge alarm installed on thier boat? Is this overkill? When my bilge pumps come on they are quite noisey and loud. Even from the helm you can hear them well. In reviewing an old survey this was listed as being deficient by the surveyor. In the E38 I would be curious as to placement location with all the grid structure under the sole.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
I do not. A gadget to consider though. I suppose I would set it to alarm if water rose above the level of the float switch. I've also heard of people setting some kind of meter to count bilge-pump cycles. Because after all, if you're not on the boat all the time, you don't really know how much water is flowing through there. I think some of the "Spot" like satellite tracking gadgets can also send a message to your phone if an alarm goes off, no matter where you are.

One issue that I am having is that there are so many alarms on the boat already, and they sound so similar, that it's hard to figure out what is going on. For example, the autopilot off-course alarm sounds exactly like the carbon monoxide alarm, and they are only a couple of feet apart. Oddly, none of my gadgets seem to have a flashing red light to go with the audible alarm. We almost need a "master alarm" and some readout to indicate what is wrong. The Raymarine Seatalk to RS232 converter actually did have such a function, but only as far as Raymarine stuff goes. But anyway, I replaced that with the NMEA0182 multiplexer.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Bilge alarms are often required on commercial boats where the bilge is deep and hidden, but on shallow-bilge sailboats where 20 buckets' worth floats the floorboards--personally, I don't see the need.

Now if you could rig one up to call you at home....

Regarding alarms, my AIS makes it easy to wire in a $10 aftermarket collision alert buzzer--loud enough to wake the dead, or soon-be-dead, or just-don't-wannabe dead.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
The bilge on the 38 almost isn't deep enough to have a high water alarm, is it? Perhaps only 6" or so above the regular float switch and you would reach the floorboards. What I was interested in (but never got around to adding) would be a counter to record how often the bilge pump was activated.
 

KTROBI_VALHALLA

Member II
I like the counter idea Steve, as well as Christian's 'phone home ET.....the boat is flooding' idea. With the IOT in full swing, I am sure there is remote sensing and monitoring systems and products already being marketed. The question is: how fast are you willing to drive and how many red lights are you willing to run to get to your supposed sinking vessel........or was it another false alarm! I am 20 minutes and 5 traffic lights from my boat. I might have to do a risk assessment!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The good news is that the 38 (and other models in that design series) have a deep enough sump to really collect any incidental water and even have more than one sensor.
One puzzling part of this narrative is the equipment inventory of the original factory bilge pumping.
Or, I am just easily puzzled. :rolleyes:

Our '88 boat came, stock, with two Jabsco #37202 model bilge pumps and a large manual Whale pump mounted adjacent to the helm. Both of our electric pumps have float switches and are each powered thru separate standard "Rule" pump status panels, each with its ruby light, and auto-off-manual bat-handle switch. I leave the main DC panel hot so that these two pumps are powered up all the time that the boat is afloat.

EY must have made running changes in their de-watering equipment standards throughout the 80's.

'Tis a mystery.
:confused:

Loren
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I like the counter idea Steve, as well as Christian's 'phone home ET.....the boat is flooding' idea. With the IOT in full swing, I am sure there is remote sensing and monitoring systems and products already being marketed. The question is: how fast are you willing to drive and how many red lights are you willing to run to get to your supposed sinking vessel........or was it another false alarm! I am 20 minutes and 5 traffic lights from my boat. I might have to do a risk assessment!

Funny you should mention the time factor after you are digitally notified that the boat is taking on water. This last Friday I was visiting the moorage in the morning to pick up some friends and take them to PDX to catch their flight.
Walking down the dock I found that a 37 foot sailboat was in a sinking condition, with only about a foot of the deck above water. Luck was with me, big time.
Kathy could still take our friends to the airport to catch their flight, and I could stay and figure out the club's big Honda gas-powered pump in-a-cart.

Took me anxious minutes to wrestle the pump down the finger dock, get the hose in place and then prime the pump. At that point water was just below the cockpit seat tops and running in around the edges of the boards (to augment the invisible inside leak). The water at the back of the cockpit was surging from inflow from the "drains". I stuffed the hose and its strum box down a laz. via the seat hatch, deep into the aft bilge thru about 4 or 5 feet of very clear water. Got the pump going and the boat stabilized and started to rise a bit. By then the owner got there (I had called him first) and then appeared two great guys from Vessel Assist with a flock of pumps, gas and electric. We were down to the cabin sole in less than a half hour.
Still do not know the source of the initial leak, and the owner was aboard just two days prior. It was towed to the yard and hauled that afternoon and the engine was pickled. It's in the hands of the insurance co now.
Further luck: absolutely zero oil spill at all.

My thinking is that if someone is not on the scene really Really fast, remote notification might only help just to let the owner summon help at the marina. For example we live only 10 miles from our marina, but in heavy traffic it takes an hour to drive there.

I used our 'turkey baster' to clean the rain water out of my own bilge today... and then wiped it dry with a towel!
:)

Cheers,
Loren

ps: Be very thankful that all the 80's Ericson's and Olson's have bridge decks. Even if water fills your cockpit, it can still only get inside the boat around the seat hatch flanges.
 
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markvone

Sustaining Member
My boat came with a high water alarm combined with the Ultra Pump Switch for the auto bilge pump. It's the UPS-01 system in the link below but branded as West Marine:

http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=pumpswitch_price

The alarm is powered by two 9v batteries and it is much loader than any other alarm on the boat. The pump automatically cycles at 1 1/4 inches and the alarm sounds at 3 inches. It won't help much if you are not there but it will wake you up if you are sleeping, which is what I presume the PO intended. I suppose you could have it sound outside the boat (in the cockpit?) if you are in a marina situation with people around. My PO installed a second Jabsco 36960 bilge pump he could switch on to double the bilge pumping capacity but each of these pumps is only rated for ~ 5 GPM (300 GPH) so there was not a lot of emergency capacity.

For additional bilge pumping capacity in an emergency, I replaced the second Jabsco with a Rule 3700 GPH pump and a dedicated 1 1/2 inch discharge hose. The Rule is mounted on a G10 base 3 inches above bilge level with it's own Ultra Pump Switch so that it will auto run if water gets ~ 5 inches deep. The E36RH bilge is ~ 15 inches deep so this all fit easily. I don't know if the big pump will save the boat in a major flood, but it will buy some time.

I keep both the standard and emergency bilge pumps powered all the time via their DC panel breakers which are wired direct to the house bank battery. I duplicated the PO's existing bilge panel in black plexiglass to add power 'ON' LEDs and a switch for the new emergency bilge pump.

Mark
 

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Excellent work, Loren. I had better find out if the California Yacht Club even has a portable emergency pump--and where it is. And it's a good reminder that VEssel Assist boats can help.

For what it's worth, I wired the bilge pump direct to the batteries. My DC panel is off when I leave the boat.
 

KTROBI_VALHALLA

Member II
My boat came with a high water alarm combined with the Ultra Pump Switch for the auto bilge pump. It's the UPS-01 system in the link below but branded as West Marine:

http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=pumpswitch_price

The alarm is powered by two 9v batteries and it is much loader than any other alarm on the boat. The pump automatically cycles at 1 1/4 inches and the alarm sounds at 3 inches. It won't help much if you are not there but it will wake you up if you are sleeping, which is what I presume the PO intended. I suppose you could have it sound outside the boat (in the cockpit?) if you are in a marina situation with people around. My PO installed a second Jabsco 36960 bilge pump he could switch on to double the bilge pumping capacity but each of these pumps is only rated for ~ 5 GPM (300 GPH) so there was not a lot of emergency capacity.

For additional bilge pumping capacity in an emergency, I replaced the second Jabsco with a Rule 3700 GPH pump and a dedicated 1 1/2 inch discharge hose. The Rule is mounted on a G10 base 3 inches above bilge level with it's own Ultra Pump Switch so that it will auto run if water gets ~ 5 inches deep. The E36RH bilge is ~ 15 inches deep so this all fit easily. I don't know if the big pump will save the boat in a major flood, but it will buy some time.

I keep both the standard and emergency bilge pumps powered all the time via their DC panel breakers which are wired direct to the house bank battery. I duplicated the PO's existing bilge panel in black plexiglass to add power 'ON' LEDs and a switch for the new emergency bilge pump.

Mark

Thanks for the pics Mark, I really like that panel.
 

woolamaloo

Member III
I like the counter idea Steve, as well as Christian's 'phone home ET.....the boat is flooding' idea. With the IOT in full swing, I am sure there is remote sensing and monitoring systems and products already being marketed. The question is: how fast are you willing to drive and how many red lights are you willing to run to get to your supposed sinking vessel........or was it another false alarm! I am 20 minutes and 5 traffic lights from my boat. I might have to do a risk assessment!

Speaking of IoT (Internet of Things), this off-season, I'm playing with a Raspberry Pi/Arduino setup that I'm configuring to be my wind instruments. In addition, I've bought the components to include gps, accelerometer, compass, temperature, barometric pressure, humidity, ais, NMEA, propane sensor, and relating to this post, a bilge water sensor. Using the wifi in my marina, I should be able to have emailed alerts and I'll be able to check data remotely. (I'll post details if I ever get it working satisfactorily.) All these components, save the anemometer, have set me back about $120. The technology is getting better daily.

That still doesn't help me much if my boat is sinking. I live an hour away.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
All this talk of boats sinking and needing to get to the marina in a hurry reminds me of a great joke in one of William F. Buckley's books.

He wrote that it didn't matter how important some CEO or captain of industry was, if you called their office and said that you were calling from the yacht club with an urgent message about their boat, you would be put through to them immediately. (Does anyone know if Bill Gates owns a boat? Maybe we should try it.)
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Calling the CEO, a fun story.

A number of years ago Marilyn and I were on a mooring in the Isthmus at Catalina Island enjoying a week there. One Sunday, mid afternoon while I was otherwise entertaining myself, she donned her snorkel gear and began looking into the 12 foot deep water under the dinghy dock for treasure. As this was mere hours since the majority of folks had departed for the mainland, and having had good luck in the past retrieving beach towels (we washed, dried and then used them for drying our dogs off), she spotted a wallet on the sandy floor. We returned to the boat, rinsed it and its contents in fresh water and allowed it all to dry. It belonged to a ranking SoCal executive with JC Penny's and fortunately contained several of his business cards. The decision was immediately made to get it back to him with its contents including a dated black & white photo of a young girl posing for the camera that we presumed to be this chap's young wife that he'd carried with him for all the intervening decades. Included in the collection of usual contents were two $20's and when seeing that, I said to Marilyn, "Well, you just made $40". Bewildered, she asked how I knew that. I explained that when we called him the next day at his office to arrange for the return, she should describe he is driver license, the old photo and the two $20's. Mid morning the next day we called from the pay phone on the end of the pier (that's how many years ago it was) and his secretary answered. When she asked to speak to the fellow, Marilyn was told that he was in a meeting and that he'd call her back. She then told the woman the nature of her call, was immediately put on hold and in no time flat was talking to the chap. He thanked her for her honesty, asked that she mail it to his office address (she did) and went on to say, "Oh, and keep the $40 for your troubles". There's always a way to talk to a CEO. Enjoy, Glyn & Marilyn Judson, Dawn Treader, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Bill Gates

Much as he used to love a good prank, that one wouldn't work on him.

Now if you called and told him a big brown Mercedes was on fire down in the garage? That would get some attention. Go figure.
 
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